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Kingb4
Nürburgring


Joined: 20 Jan 2018
Posts: 383
Location: Beds/Bucks


PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 7:41 pm    Post subject: Diagnose my oil Leak Reply with quote

Hello,
A cheeky request, but would appreciate thoughts on a couple of oil leaks I have spotted.
The first looks suspiciously like RMS or IMS seal. However both were changed (along with the clutch) less than 1000 miles ago by Box911.
 



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Kingb4
Nürburgring


Joined: 20 Jan 2018
Posts: 383
Location: Beds/Bucks


PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suspect the second leak is a spark-plug tube. tracing it up the engine, its coming from behind the heat-shield (difficult to see with the manifold and heat-shield in place).

Would welcome thoughts/advice.

The oil-level doesnt seem to be dropping at all. Have read that its best to leave RMS/IMS seals till the clutch needs doing (which wont be for a long while).
 
  
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ragpicker
Reims


Joined: 14 Apr 2013
Posts: 4030
Location: North East England


PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the patch of oil is where the engine and gearbox meets. IMS/RMS territory.

Can't see any other pics of the heatshields or spark plug areas to comment further. Dont know
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Kingb4
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Joined: 20 Jan 2018
Posts: 383
Location: Beds/Bucks


PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Ragpicker - managed to forget to attach the photos of the second leak (hopefully now attached)
 



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wasz
Sepang


Joined: 28 Dec 2012
Posts: 2992


1999 Porsche 996 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The first is RMS or IMS bearing cover. Take it back to whoever did the work!

The second, I dunno, could be plug tubes could be oil pressure sender etc.

At least you know there is oil in it.....

I wouldn't worry if the oil level is not dropping. If the oil is not dripping out i.e. its just causing dampness, its not a big deal on an old engine.
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deMort
Dijon


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 7489
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

First picture is rms/ims and may well be they didnt clean out the bell houseing so its old oil from before the job was done .

Either way its not what i would call a leak .. its a sweat .

My scale is out of 5 so that would be a 1/5 .. 3 on the scale is a leak that doesnt need attention atm .. 4 is a drip forming whilst engine is running and 5 is the heavens have just opened .

Last pictures and again thats not really a leak , theres no evidence of oil actually dripping down from the pictures .. it seems to be old and again a sweat .

Thats not really plug tube area on the first picture .. more like a sensor ie cam or vario solinoid .

Plug tubes / seals and the oil tends to drip off the head .

You can spend money fixing both if you wish .. but i wouldn,t flag up either leak to a customer as needing attention from the pictures .
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Kingb4
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Joined: 20 Jan 2018
Posts: 383
Location: Beds/Bucks


PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 8:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thats brilliant, thanks Demort and Wasz....

As you say, more of a sweat.....neither had caused even a drip on the garage floor. I think i will clean it and see what happens......
 
  
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infrasilver
Fast & Furious
Fast & Furious


Joined: 04 Oct 2010
Posts: 8472
Location: East Midlands

2001 Porsche 996 Targa

PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1st picture as you mention, IMS/RMS, some people just aren't very good at fitting them.

2nd leak could be a spark plug tube but looks to far to the left/rear, I would assume variocam solenoid seal, I had a similar misting and it was that.
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Kingb4
Nürburgring


Joined: 20 Jan 2018
Posts: 383
Location: Beds/Bucks


PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Really appreciate all the help - this forum is great.

Infrasilver - its interesting that you spotted its close to the rear. I noticed it looked wettest right at the back (left) - really tricky to see with the manifold etc when looking from below and too many hoses when trying to see from above.
Will get my endoscope out and see if that helps me localise it.

Have just googled variocam solenoid seal - doesnt look to tricky to do, if thats what turns out to be the issue.
 
  
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infrasilver
Fast & Furious
Fast & Furious


Joined: 04 Oct 2010
Posts: 8472
Location: East Midlands

2001 Porsche 996 Targa

PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pull the heat shield and you'll probably see exactly where it's coming from. The air flow through the car will make it run to the rear and mist from its original location.
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searider
Silverstone


Joined: 07 Feb 2013
Posts: 142
Location: Southampton


PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Demort wrote:
First picture is rms/ims and may well be they didnt clean out the bell houseing so its old oil from before the job was done .

Either way its not what i would call a leak .. its a sweat .

My scale is out of 5 so that would be a 1/5 .. 3 on the scale is a leak that doesnt need attention atm .. 4 is a drip forming whilst engine is running and 5 is the heavens have just opened .

Last pictures and again thats not really a leak , theres no evidence of oil actually dripping down from the pictures .. it seems to be old and again a sweat .

Thats not really plug tube area on the first picture .. more like a sensor ie cam or vario solinoid .

Plug tubes / seals and the oil tends to drip off the head .

You can spend money fixing both if you wish .. but i wouldn,t flag up either leak to a customer as needing attention from the pictures .


So, almost a bonus - built in corrosion protection as per Landrovers!
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Kingb4
Nürburgring


Joined: 20 Jan 2018
Posts: 383
Location: Beds/Bucks


PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

searider wrote:


So, almost a bonus - built in corrosion protection as per Landrovers!


I will spoil that when I clean it all off.......Which wont be till the weather is warmer (my garage is freezing!)
 
  
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Kingb4
Nürburgring


Joined: 20 Jan 2018
Posts: 383
Location: Beds/Bucks


PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As its warmed up, I managed to get out in the garage and get the heatshield off to look at where the leak is coming from.

It doesnt seem to be from variocam solenoid seal, looks to be higher up, coming from the part coloured red on this diagram. Is this a common seal failure. Anyone had to repair theirs? (I havent worked out what part this is yet......
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infrasilver
Fast & Furious
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2001 Porsche 996 Targa

PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Air Oil Separator tube, it runs across the engine from the AOS on the opposite corner of the engine. It may be just the O ring on the pipe or where it connects into the engine, not too easy to get at but a cheap fix.
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Kingb4
Nürburgring


Joined: 20 Jan 2018
Posts: 383
Location: Beds/Bucks


PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks infrasilver - was painful to even see it, so can imagine what working on it will be like.....
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infrasilver
Fast & Furious
Fast & Furious


Joined: 04 Oct 2010
Posts: 8472
Location: East Midlands

2001 Porsche 996 Targa

PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From memory I think a single 10mm bolt holds the connector to the head and there is a gasket/O ring under it, the tube that goes to it from the AOS is pinch/squeeze fit onto it and unless you can get your hand onto it easily you will never get it off and is an O ring to seal it.

You may need to remove quite a bit of kit surrounding it, loads of labour and pennies for the parts.
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Kingb4
Nürburgring


Joined: 20 Jan 2018
Posts: 383
Location: Beds/Bucks


PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought I would check the AOS itself, before I started to sort the weeping AOS breather pipe. I looked in the inlet and could see a slight oil misting. Then tried removing the oil-filler cap, whilst it was running. It would come off, but I could definitely feel suction.

Apparently suction and some oil (but not defined how much, as apparently 'some' is normal) in the inlet are signs of possible AOS failure, but as they are 'subjective', I decided to do a definitive test.

To definitively check the AOS - I built a DIY Slack Tube Manometer (I have seen a few of these on various forums). I warmed up the engine, then did the tests with revs less than 1000rpm and AC off. Apparently 5 inches of water is the expected vacuum, with 6 inches plus as 'suspicious' and 7 inches as confirmed AOS failure.
Thankfully, mine came out as exactly on 5 inches. Which teaches me that the ear and feeling by hand definitely cant tell you how much vacuum is being pulled.

So now I will focus on sorting the breather pipe. Which will hopefully just be the O-rings, but looks a pig to get to........
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deMort
Dijon


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 7489
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And this is why i read here every night .. the ingenuity of what you guys come up with is amazeing .


Bow

There is no easy way of figuring an AOS failure .. they can block or they can pull up oil and dump it in the inlet mainifold .

987 yesterday .. we had to use 2 hands to get the oil cap off .. obvioulsy blocked .

Fitted a new AOS and if left over night it smokes enough to trigger the fire alarms .

Lots of checking and it seems like the new AOS might be faulty .

Your test .. excellent .

Any smoke on startup should clear in 15 - 20 seconds imho .. if not there is a fault or the beginning of a fault .
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My Daughter's Crowdfunding has hit the target .

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She's not going until july 2020 though .



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Now At An Indy.
 
  
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Kingb4
Nürburgring


Joined: 20 Jan 2018
Posts: 383
Location: Beds/Bucks


PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Demort - I cant take the credit. I saw (and copied) the idea on another Porsche forum....the measurement of whats passes/fails is apparently based on lost or research/testing by Jake Raby in the US.

Strangely, in my mind, I had already decided the AOS must be bad, so was already gearing up to drop the engine.....I have to admit that whilst I am grateful not to have to do the AOS replacement, there was a small part of my that was excited to drop the engine out.
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wasz
Sepang


Joined: 28 Dec 2012
Posts: 2992


1999 Porsche 996 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There was a thread on rennlist where jake raby said loads (1/3?) of AOS he buys - genuine parts - are faulty. He has made a rig to test them before fitting.
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