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wasz
Magny-Cours


Joined: 28 Dec 2012
Posts: 2563


1999 Porsche 996 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 5:24 pm    Post subject: 996 3.4 DIY Clutch & Fly etc turns into mini restoration Reply with quote

I reached critical mass in my parts hoarding. Something has to give, the parts need to be fitted sometime. No better time than outside in mid winter. I have borrowed a car for the duration, the 996 is SORN.



CP4L: clutch kit, flywheel, flywheel bolts, sealant, threadlock, genuine RMS
type 911: clutch cover bolts, aos, alignmnet tool, clutch lever repair kit
oh and i have fuel filter and waterpump, and belt bearings to go in too.

Step one: Jack up the car

Step two: Snap three of the middle underbody cover threads clean off



I fear this is going to take a while. More to follow.

Last edited by wasz on Sun Jan 28, 2018 8:43 pm; edited 3 times in total
 
  
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911munKy
Nürburgring


Joined: 26 Nov 2014
Posts: 452



PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Step 3 - use cable ties to put it back together and wait until Spring!
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2000 C2 996
 
  
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MisterCorn
Long Beach


Joined: 08 Jan 2011
Posts: 6123
Location: Nottingham, England

2004 Porsche 996 Turbo

PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem is that come springtime you want to be driving, not fixing.

MC
 
  
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deMort
Zolder


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 5029
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pop Corn & tea
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MMT
Monza


Joined: 18 May 2011
Posts: 157



PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Step 4: Take to closest good Indy. 😬
 
  
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wasz
Magny-Cours


Joined: 28 Dec 2012
Posts: 2563


1999 Porsche 996 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah ye of little faith. I once swapped the gearbox on a 306 so feel I'm qualified for this task.

Demort wrote:
Pop Corn & tea


Good to have you on board!

I only get the odd hour to do stuff unfortunately.

Today before removing anything I cracked every bolt. I DO NOT want to be stuck on the drive with a seized bolt or snapped mounting point after reading marky911's experience: http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=118164&start=120

Thankfully all my brace bar and gearbox mounting bolts came loose, except I couldn't get on the top bolt - this will have to wait as I will drop the engine on its mounts 25mm to gain access.



This is the extend of my RMS or IMS cover leak - you can see fresh oil:


And this is what your undercarriage looks like after 19 years of said weeping oil:



Dirty. Maybe I'll get it steam cleaned when I'm done. Or maybe not.

I proceeded to remove all underbody covers and arch liners.

This was lurking under rear wheel arch sill ends:



Full of mud! no arch corrosion yet though, the jacking point area needs buzzing off and POR-15 as will under this plastic trim. Seems solid so hopefully no welding needed....

This brake line was hiding, looks OK so will wire brush and liberally waxoil. Someone has been in and replaced the other lines already.

EDIT: this brake line will be replaced



I'd advise you all to remove your underbody plastics and check whats lurking.

Next step will be fabricating tools.

1) jack attachment for transmission
2) camlock tools

Last edited by wasz on Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:49 am; edited 1 time in total
 
  
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infrasilver
Fast & Furious
Fast & Furious


Joined: 04 Oct 2010
Posts: 7725
Location: East Midlands

2001 Porsche 996 Targa

PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It could be your IMS seal that is leaking and I'm assuming this is getting the outer bearing seal removed while you are in there?
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deMort
Zolder


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 5029
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have a good look at the brake pipe were it goes into the clip as thats the point they rot out .. if in doubt then either replace or cut and join .. ive blown those pipes on road test before and it happens when the car is MOT,ed on the brake rollers due to the excessive force used .

Check the clutch slave cyl pipe and union as they are often heavily corroded these days .

Ive seen in our bodyshop they have a tool that you fit a new stud into , press it against where you want it and it will weld it in place so perhaps thats an option as it doesnt take long .

I do love a post like this .. nice going young man Smile



Thats not a bad leak IMHO .. i see far worse !

Ive not done this in a few years now but im sure there was x2 bolts going sideways in the caseing that when you do ims / crank seal you also replace as they can leak .



A question for you guys .. how do you fit the crank seal without the tool ?
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MisterCorn
Long Beach


Joined: 08 Jan 2011
Posts: 6123
Location: Nottingham, England

2004 Porsche 996 Turbo

PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I love threads like this. As I am sure many other amateur spanner twirlers do, I look for things like this when I have a job to do. When I don't find it I get stuck in and write it up myself. Don't spare the details.....

MC
 
  
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infrasilver
Fast & Furious
Fast & Furious


Joined: 04 Oct 2010
Posts: 7725
Location: East Midlands

2001 Porsche 996 Targa

PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Demort wrote:
A question for you guys .. how do you fit the crank seal without the tool ?


Personally I use the old seal backwards and a piece of wood to drift it in a circular motion.
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wasz
Magny-Cours


Joined: 28 Dec 2012
Posts: 2563


1999 Porsche 996 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

infrasilver wrote:
It could be your IMS seal that is leaking and I'm assuming this is getting the outer bearing seal removed while you are in there?


Yes I'm going to check the bearing for play and flip the seal off.

Demort wrote:
Have a good look at the brake pipe were it goes into the clip as thats the point they rot out .. if in doubt then either replace or cut and join .. ive blown those pipes on road test before and it happens when the car is MOT,ed on the brake rollers due to the excessive force used .

Check the clutch slave cyl pipe and union as they are often heavily corroded these days .

Ive seen in our bodyshop they have a tool that you fit a new stud into , press it against where you want it and it will weld it in place so perhaps thats an option as it doesnt take long .

I do love a post like this .. nice going young man Smile



Thats not a bad leak IMHO .. i see far worse !

Ive not done this in a few years now but im sure there was x2 bolts going sideways in the caseing that when you do ims / crank seal you also replace as they can leak .



A question for you guys .. how do you fit the crank seal without the tool ?



Thanks a lot for the tips Demort!

I'm going to glue some threaded stud for the undertray. E.g. https://www.comdir.co.uk/male-stud-bonding-fasteners-23mm-round-base.html


Crank seal tool from 100mm plumbing:


Cam lock tool:


I will make 2x of these each from 2 pieces of 2mm steel cut and glued together.

both from http://burnerscars.blogspot.co.uk/ (website is down...)

Last edited by wasz on Sun Jan 28, 2018 8:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
 
  
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wasz
Magny-Cours


Joined: 28 Dec 2012
Posts: 2563


1999 Porsche 996 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

While I wait for steel to arrive to make my jack attachement and camlocks I got on with some "easy" jobs - spark plugs and fuel filter.

I say "easy" as they are both a bit of a wrestle.

Now I am shocked. The fuel filter I pulled out is a genuine filter dated 04.01.05



The car has FULL service history by OPC and VERY respected indies until I got my hands on it at 111k miles. Thats why I hadn't changed it yet.

At its OPC service on 14/01/05 the car had 33479 miles.

The car has 100k miles more than that now.....the fuel filter is probably 100k miles old. They should be changed every 60k.

None of people who serviced it in the meantime thought to change the fuel filter, despite ticking the "major service" box in the service history.

This is why I service my own cars.

Last edited by wasz on Sun Jan 28, 2018 8:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
 
  
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Y2K
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 08 Mar 2016
Posts: 337
Location: Hampshire


PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I love threads like these even though I have no plans / skills / patience to carry out the tasks shown.

Best of luck pal!
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2005 996 GT3 mk2
1999 Integra DC2
 
  
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wasz
Magny-Cours


Joined: 28 Dec 2012
Posts: 2563


1999 Porsche 996 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

infrasilver wrote:
Demort wrote:
A question for you guys .. how do you fit the crank seal without the tool ?


Personally I use the old seal backwards and a piece of wood to drift it in a circular motion.


That sounds easier than sourcing 100mm plumbing. (UK is 110mm).

I'll give it a bash (!).

I understand the depth has changed a few times, is the latest 15mm from flywheel mounting face?

And what if any sealant do you use (I noticed on Marky911's they used some red sealant on RMS and IMS seal, and yellow on the threads of the IMB cover bolts).
 
  
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wasz
Magny-Cours


Joined: 28 Dec 2012
Posts: 2563


1999 Porsche 996 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Y2K wrote:
I love threads like these even though I have no plans / skills / patience to carry out the tasks shown.

Best of luck pal!


So do I, love watching others do the jobs! Now its my turn....Thanks for the encouragement!
 
  
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ragpicker
Estoril


Joined: 14 Apr 2013
Posts: 3586
Location: North East England


PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pop Corn

Go-on lad!

Looks like we're all here... all the usual suspects watching this thread...

Thumb
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986 S - usually in pieces: http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=112626
 
  
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infrasilver
Fast & Furious
Fast & Furious


Joined: 04 Oct 2010
Posts: 7725
Location: East Midlands

2001 Porsche 996 Targa

PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wasz wrote:
infrasilver wrote:
Demort wrote:
A question for you guys .. how do you fit the crank seal without the tool ?


Personally I use the old seal backwards and a piece of wood to drift it in a circular motion.


That sounds easier than sourcing 100mm plumbing. (UK is 110mm).

I'll give it a bash (!).

I understand the depth has changed a few times, is the latest 15mm from flywheel mounting face?


I just have it in about 0.5mm from the casing face, there is a figure but I don't have it to hand.

wasz wrote:
And what if any sealant do you use (I noticed on Marky911's they used some red sealant on RMS and IMS seal, and yellow on the threads of the IMB cover bolts).


Don't use any sealant and you need it to be oil free too. Just be patient and get it straight. Using sealant actually lubes the sidewall of the seal up and can slip out by itself. The latest RMS design is the best and will seal fine.

The IMSB cover bolts go straight through into the hollow casing so use thread lock on them.
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Marky911
Albert Park


Joined: 04 Jun 2009
Posts: 1722



PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Go on Wasz!! You glutton for punishment.

Regarding the sealant. My Indy once had an IMS seal that must have been faulty from the factory. He fitted it and got everything built back up and finished.

It leaked after a short time so he had to do it all again, hence the sealant.
It doesn't go on the proper IMS seal. You let the seal do its job on its own. The sealant goes behind the seal when it's almost in. It's just a belt and braces option, so if you do ever get a weep from the seal the secondary barrier should stall it for some time.
I'm happier with it added but some, like infrasilver aren't. That's fine, it's just personal preference.

Same with the bolts. If you look at the new bolts in one of my IMS cover pics you'll see a substance on the threads. That's a thread lock/sealant from Porsche. Again you let that do its job and add a bit of liquid sealant just under the heads as you tighten them up. Again personal choice but seems sensible to me.

Good luck buddy. I would hate to tackle that lot on the floor. I'm sure you'll manage though. Watching with interest. Thumb

PS. I see you mean RMS too. No sealant on that as I far I'm aware. Clean and dry as Infra says.
 
  
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deMort
Zolder


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 5029
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some clever ideas on how to fit the RMS .. i think id just stand there and complain i didnt have the tool ! ahhh working on these for a living makes one lazy i guess Very Happy

No sealent on an RMS .. hard to say on the IMS .. i have and havent over the years but neither way caused a problem.

The 13mm nut .. put sealent under it and on the threads , if the O ring seal on the shaft gets damaged then that will seal it .

RMS seal placement .. basically anywhere that is in a different position from the last one .. you will see a wear mark on the crank when you remove it so 1 mm away from that is fine .

The seals and placement have changed so many times over the years though its hard to keep up ..Leaks here are Porsches achilies heel i think .

Just for info ..

The tool for the RMS puts even pressure on the seal to slide it in .. i have many years ago got it slightly off and it damaged the seal as it was pushed in .
Basically be care full not to push it to much side to side and if you see any rubber coming off the seal then fit a new one as thats what happened to me.

Cam shaft locking tools .. again clever and a good idea .. probably best if i dont say how we do the job Smile


Fuel filter .. yup im not suprised im afraid .. something like 2002 ? they stopped having a fuel filter .. its always been an option like plugs , brake fluid etc and it gets missed by the service advisors .. mechanics tend to do what it says on the job card ..

Ive questioned why a major with no Brake fliud change .. with out plugs etc many times only to be told it was done as such and such or not needed so we kinda give up asking .. Sorry for that ... i try harder these days at an Indy though .

Also at OPC i was on a set time for a service .. not nice to get told your not fast enough every month at the apprasial so you tend to do what your told .. again sorry for that .

Im nothing if not honest .. it will be the death of me i swear !!
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alex yates
Brands Hatch
Brands Hatch


Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 13834
Location: The Ribble Valley, Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Isn't cam locking tool 6mm thick? I know it is for the 3.6 as I used to make them.

If so, you might want to use 3 pieces of 2mm plate.

Edit: Although I suppose if your 2mm offset (step) is correct, then one face of the cam slot will sit flat against the tool.
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