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deMort
Dijon


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 7573
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

infrasilver wrote:
wasz wrote:
CLUTCH SLAVE aaargh POS what a faff. 13mm bolts. I undid it when i drppped the box a bit. The lower bolt is a pain.


You'll enjoy refitting it then, trying to compress the slave plunger while getting a bolt in. frustrated


Hell yeah lol ..

Compress the slave cyl rod by pushing it against the gearbox casing untill its fully home .. then clamp a brake pipe tool on the pipe to hold the pressure .. spray some lub on the rubber boot and youll fit it just fine .

Bolts and i use a short extension and go at it through the coiled pipe of the slave cyl .. so ratchet inside the loop basically .

So far .. well done young man Very Happy
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wasz
Sepang


Joined: 28 Dec 2012
Posts: 2998


1999 Porsche 996 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Demort wrote:
Check the clutch slave cyl pipe and union as they are often heavily corroded these days .


Jeez they know how to charge for that one. 99642337707 £122.

Crikey, check this out, treaded fitting for the above to the clutch line: 99923054110 £100 !!!!!!

Mine looks a little crusty at the crimps, but hey it works. I will be putting jubilee clips over the crimps to extend its life I think.

If it fails I would take it to a hydraulic hose place and see if they will renew the rubber and crimps.

Where to stop.....

EDIT: more info on these parts: http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=118813

Last edited by wasz on Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:41 am; edited 2 times in total
 
  
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wasz
Sepang


Joined: 28 Dec 2012
Posts: 2998


1999 Porsche 996 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Demort wrote:
Compress the slave cyl rod by pushing it against the gearbox casing untill its fully home .. then clamp a brake pipe tool on the pipe to hold the pressure .. spray some lub on the rubber boot and youll fit it just fine .

Bolts and i use a short extension and go at it through the coiled pipe of the slave cyl .. so ratchet inside the loop basically .

So far .. well done young man Very Happy


Brill thanks for the tip! Why did I not use my short 1/4" extension duh.

One thing.... when I pulled the slave out, it left the metal tip of its rod and the rubber boot in the bell housing.....

Can I just push the rod back in and refit the boot before replacing the slave, or is it new slave time?
 
  
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Gixxer996
Silverstone


Joined: 08 Jan 2016
Posts: 101



PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wasz, just seen this thread as ive been out of the country for quite a while and not online.

I did this exact job last year.

I made a few tools which you are welcome to borrow if you can get down to essex?

I made a RMS tool which allows you to evenly load the seal as you put it and stops at exactly 13mm (the depth that was perfect for mine). I machined this out of solid steel bar therefore dimensions are very accurate and snug fitting.

My RMS was replaced by a well known "specialist" 2 weeks before i bought the car- it leaked. Upon inspection the seal was 0.75mm deeper on one side than the other which i blame for the leak (hence making my tool).

I also made a tool for inserting a new trans mount (its a bit agricultural but works). Let me know if you want to borrow them - although i do want them back and they are too heavy to post.
 
  
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wasz
Sepang


Joined: 28 Dec 2012
Posts: 2998


1999 Porsche 996 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gixxer996 wrote:
Wasz, just seen this thread as ive been out of the country for quite a while and not online.

I did this exact job last year.

I made a few tools which you are welcome to borrow if you can get down to essex?

I made a RMS tool which allows you to evenly load the seal as you put it and stops at exactly 13mm (the depth that was perfect for mine). I machined this out of solid steel bar therefore dimensions are very accurate and snug fitting.

My RMS was replaced by a well known "specialist" 2 weeks before i bought the car- it leaked. Upon inspection the seal was 0.75mm deeper on one side than the other which i blame for the leak (hence making my tool).

I also made a tool for inserting a new trans mount (its a bit agricultural but works). Let me know if you want to borrow them - although i do want them back and they are too heavy to post.


Wow thanks for the offer Very Happy

However I'm up north, not likely to be near essex Sad I can arrange a courier if thats OK for you (I understand if not).

My gearbox mount looks fine (no splits) but I'm aware its old. I have a powerflex insert sitting here - so I'm in two minds whether to get a new lemforder bushing (£16+vat) or just stick the powerflex insert in.

Also I rather suspect my oil is coming from the IMS seal. If theres no leak from the RMS, I dunno, maybe I should leave it alone? Again I'm in two minds about it. I have a new seal sitting here. Will see what it looks like.
 
  
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Gixxer996
Silverstone


Joined: 08 Jan 2016
Posts: 101



PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tell you what, ill box them up and see how much royal mail want to post them and see if you are happy to pay that - more convenient for me than waiting round for a courier as I am rarely in the UK at the mo let alone at home!

PM me your address and if you are happy with their price ill post them this week and speak on the phone to explain how to use them. Again i would like them returned though (in case I ever have the ludicrous idea to do it again - unlikely).

I used a Lemforder replacement - no complaints but haven't tried an insert. Why not try both? If its to harsh remove the insert?
 
  
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infrasilver
Fast & Furious
Fast & Furious


Joined: 04 Oct 2010
Posts: 8492
Location: East Midlands

2001 Porsche 996 Targa

PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wasz wrote:
Also I rather suspect my oil is coming from the IMS seal. If theres no leak from the RMS, I dunno, maybe I should leave it alone? Again I'm in two minds about it. I have a new seal sitting here. Will see what it looks like.


The rule of thumb is to leave the RMS alone if it is not leaking at all. A new seal will be better than the old one but if its not fitted correctly it may leak, it's not particularly hard to fit if you have done this kind of work before though.
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wasz
Sepang


Joined: 28 Dec 2012
Posts: 2998


1999 Porsche 996 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

infrasilver wrote:
wasz wrote:
Also I rather suspect my oil is coming from the IMS seal. If theres no leak from the RMS, I dunno, maybe I should leave it alone? Again I'm in two minds about it. I have a new seal sitting here. Will see what it looks like.


The rule of thumb is to leave the RMS alone if it is not leaking at all. A new seal will be better than the old one but if its not fitted correctly it may leak, it's not particularly hard to fit if you have done this kind of work before though.


Thats what I was thinking, if its OK I might well leave alone....but if I have a new seal and Gixxer's install tool in my hand.....

I'm generally an "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" kind of guy, but I'm going to have a stab at my AOS as although it seems to work, there is oil around the bellows again (replaced bellows before).
 
  
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Alex
Le Mans
Le Mans


Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 17120
Location: The Ribble Valley, Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I left mine alone even though I had a new RMS ready to fit. The leak was coming from the ims cover plate, so fixed that (2 years ago) and all's well.
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2000 Manual 996 C4 Arctic Silver Convertible


 
  
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deMort
Dijon


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 7573
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with Alex and infrasilver .. if it aint broke then dont fix it .. you can cause problems when you dont need to .

Whats the condition of the release arm where the slave cyl rod touches it ?

The plastic bit on the end of the slave rod can wear through and start to push a hole in the release arm ( metal on metal ) , btw grease that part .. it can cause a squeek later on .

If no damage then you should be able to put the slave cyl back together ok .. just lub the rubber boot first before fitting .

If you can get away with the slave cyl pipe then do it , it often doesnt come out of the quick release brass part and thats even more expense .

Picture of the rms / ims would be usefull Very Happy

Edit ..

Aww i almost forgot , the standard way is to drill into the RMS then fit a screw and use that to lever it out .. dont .. dont snap off the drill or indeed damage the case halves with the drill ..

I spent ages many years ago finding a fault on a car only to find a broken drill bit in the scavenge pump o/s .. probably from a RMS replacement !


I kid you not .
_________________
.

My Daughter's Crowdfunding has hit the target .

Thank you all so Very much .

She's not going until july 2020 though .



Mechanic

7pm - 9pm

Now At An Indy.
 
  
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wasz
Sepang


Joined: 28 Dec 2012
Posts: 2998


1999 Porsche 996 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Demort wrote:
The plastic bit on the end of the slave rod can wear through and start to push a hole in the release arm ( metal on metal ) , btw grease that part .. it can cause a squeek later on .


The arm itself looks OK.

However there is no sign of a plastic end on the clutch slave. If you hadn't said that I wouldn't have thought there ever was one. Looking at pics of new ones I can see a plastic covering the whole end - theres not even a worn bit of plastic anywhere.

Do you know if there is a repair kit available that includes a new bit of plastic like there is for other cars?

Do you ever bother to replace the release bearing guide tube?

Will try to get the clutch and fly off maybe one evening this week.

Ouch about the drill bit!

Last edited by wasz on Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:51 pm; edited 1 time in total
 
  
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wasz
Sepang


Joined: 28 Dec 2012
Posts: 2998


1999 Porsche 996 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also Demort (or anyone else) another question if I may....

The over gearbox brake line:

all the brake pipe nuts on my car seem to be m10 for 11mm spanner.

Except this one. It plugs into the larger hole in the connecting block:



Mine has had a short piece replaced and seems to have a 1/2" brake nut at this end...measured with vernier def 1/2" not 12 or 13mm - surely not right on a german car? Do you know the size of brake pipe nut needed here - I am getting someone to make up kunifer lines.
 
  
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infrasilver
Fast & Furious
Fast & Furious


Joined: 04 Oct 2010
Posts: 8492
Location: East Midlands

2001 Porsche 996 Targa

PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wasz wrote:
However there is no sign of a plastic end on the clutch slave. If you hadn't said that I wouldn't have thought there ever was one. Looking at pics of new ones I can see a plastic covering the whole end - theres not even a worn bit of plastic anywhere.


I am going to be fitting a new slave to mine in the coming months and from the pictures I had seen I thought the plastic end was just for transit purposes? From the pressure of the slave plunger onto the release arm, those plastic ends must only last a couple of thousand miles. I have also seen pictures on new ones without this plastic end so I am confused now.
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Marky911
Magny-Cours


Joined: 04 Jun 2009
Posts: 2657



PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Plunger should definitely have plastic/rubber cap but yeah Infra they do wear out, usually long before the clutch itself. That's where the creaky clutch pedal comes from. It's in the box rather than actually at the pedal.

Here's a kit you can get with 997 parts. Rubber end shown in pics. -

https://www.design911.co.uk/mobile/#part;id=12760
 
  
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wasz
Sepang


Joined: 28 Dec 2012
Posts: 2998


1999 Porsche 996 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marky911 wrote:
Plunger should definitely have plastic/rubber cap but yeah Infra they do wear out, usually long before the clutch itself. That's where the creaky clutch pedal comes from. It's in the box rather than actually at the pedal.

Here's a kit you can get with 997 parts. Rubber end shown in pics. -

https://www.design911.co.uk/mobile/#part;id=12760


That threaded bit with the plastic end is the lower pivot pin, not the end of the clutch slave.

I did get the bits in the pic, excl. the release arm.
 
  
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Marky911
Magny-Cours


Joined: 04 Jun 2009
Posts: 2657



PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep, my bad. I linked to it in a hurry last night.

My mate showed me it the other week as he bought that kit and I thought I remembered it containing the plunger cap, as his was creaking before removal. .
I didn't bother buying it as I had no bother with any aspect of mine, yet when my Indy stripped it he found no cap on the slave cylinder rod. I had a good spare so used that.

Don't know if the cap is available separately but I'd guess not, knowing Porsche.
 
  
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wasz
Sepang


Joined: 28 Dec 2012
Posts: 2998


1999 Porsche 996 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe the cap came in a later revision of the slave cylinder to stop creaks.

I suspect mine is a 1998 original, I'd expect the cylindrical part of the cap to still exist if the tip wore way.

Demort has me concerned now, should I replace the clutch arm (with the revised 997 arm £45) and the slave (£65) to stop my slave punching a hole in the old arm.......I would probably end up replacing the clutch flexi hose too(£120). Another £250 to spend. I'm sure if I had just paid someone to do this job they wouldn't bother. hmmm.

Some links with images
https://rennlist.com/forums/996-forum/974816-clutch-slave-cylinders-blowing-out.html
https://rennlist.com/forums/996-forum/556724-clutch-fork-question.html
 
  
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infrasilver
Fast & Furious
Fast & Furious


Joined: 04 Oct 2010
Posts: 8492
Location: East Midlands

2001 Porsche 996 Targa

PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wasz wrote:
I'd expect the cylindrical part of the cap to still exist if the tip wore way.


Exactly what I was thinking after I'd posted last night, if there was ever a plastic cap on the end it would still be there on the plunger minus the end that wear through on the release arm.

My 3.6 didn't have anything on it when I first removed it and if this is a revised part the plunger (or release arm) would also need to be revised and be slightly shorter than the original one or there is the potential of the clutch slipping.

I would just inspect your release arm and make the decision to replace or not.
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Marky911
Magny-Cours


Joined: 04 Jun 2009
Posts: 2657



PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good points. I'm gonna ask my indy about that, unless Demort knows obviously.

Yeah Wasz. Where do you draw the line? That's why I didn't go for that kit as I had zero issues before doing the clutch anyway.

Heck, I only changed the clutch as I wanted my IMS seal flipped and had an oil leak from up there. It's only 20k since clutch and flywheel were last done.

I didn't fit a new slave cylinder either. I stick with the one on the car as it was fine, but took the cap of a spare I had.
If it ever goes it isn't back a box off job for the slave cylinder so again I though, the list has to be ended somewhere. Wink

I have just orderded the main gearbox bush for my box going back in.
I don't rate the powerflex ones although I know they've revised them.
I figured why use one of those to support an old main bush when I can just replace the proper bush as Porsche intended.
I bought the £16 Lemforder one.
 
  
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deMort
Dijon


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 7573
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ive always said my written explainations are useless Sad

The rod on the slave cyl that touches the release arm has a plastic end to it .. it can wear through so you have a metal on metal (slave cyl rod to release arm ) this can in turn push a hole in the release arm .

If replaceing the clutch then i would always replace the release bearing guide tube .

EDIT im afraid im out of time now and starveing .. ill recheck what i wrote here and the posts first thing tomorrow evening .. second night on the trot i have run out of time Sad
_________________
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My Daughter's Crowdfunding has hit the target .

Thank you all so Very much .

She's not going until july 2020 though .



Mechanic

7pm - 9pm

Now At An Indy.
 



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