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captain caveman
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Joined: 26 Jul 2017
Posts: 88



PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:43 pm    Post subject: What you make of this? Reply with quote

The way i see it, Its either cheap crap, or realistically priced compared to some over priced kits.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Porsche-IMS-update-kit-996-986-Boxster-Carrera-with-tool/311934658884?hash=item48a0c12944:g:4PEAAOSw5dNWpMWF
 
  
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infrasilver
Fast & Furious
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Joined: 04 Oct 2010
Posts: 7134
Location: East Midlands

2001 Porsche 996 Targa

PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 12:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A normal NSK bearing retails at around £5 and a roller bearing isn't ideal for this application.
The cover plate shown uses normal O rings to stop oil leaking but the standard Porsche item has a superior band design, a standard item is fine.
They are correct about the centre post though but this kit is still well overpriced and that centre post could be machined up anywhere to fit a normal bearing.
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captain caveman
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was under the impression the roller bearing was only second best to the ceramic type.
Or are you referring to the make of this specific bearing?
 
  
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paul987
Albert Park


Joined: 27 Feb 2015
Posts: 1592
Location: east mids


PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought that all these bearing kits are unnecessary unless the bearing is physically worn.. Just remove the dust cover is the current advice isn't it Dont know

I've got the later non replacement type bearing in mine anyway apparently..
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captain caveman
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Joined: 26 Jul 2017
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't see the point in taking out the old bearing and putting it back in.
surly a new bearing with no seal is going to be better than a bearing thats 15+ years old with 100k on it.
Im only thinking of changing it because im changing the box the same time.
 
  
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paul987
Albert Park


Joined: 27 Feb 2015
Posts: 1592
Location: east mids


PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah well if your taking the old one out for another reason.. it would be rude not to replace it with a new one really Thumb
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infrasilver
Fast & Furious
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Joined: 04 Oct 2010
Posts: 7134
Location: East Midlands

2001 Porsche 996 Targa

PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

captain caveman wrote:
I was under the impression the roller bearing was only second best to the ceramic type.
Or are you referring to the make of this specific bearing?


The ceramic bearing only lasts around 40k miles and have failed earlier so I wouldn't touch that with a barge pole, it was a marketing ploy by LNE years ago but once the people who were suckered in got to some decent miles on it the "IMSB solution" was soon found out to be flawed, they then changed the terms and conditions to say it should be changed again after 40,000 miles and I have just read they only warranty it for 24,000 miles or 2 years. They blamed the installations rather than the product for the failures, as you would expect?

The preferred method is a same spec standard bearing without grease seals, if you actually need a new bearing, if not leave alone and remove the outer seal when the gearbox is next off.
Ceramic bearings in this application are known to fail early and the roller bearing doesn't give thrust and in truth is still an unknown quantity.

You don't need a new cover as they don't wear and you can replace the band seal on it for a few quid, new same spec bearing again a few quid. The only modified part I would install is a thicker post as these can snap at the waisted away section causing bearing failure but you don't seem to be able to buy these separately unfortunately.

Even Hartech shy away from installing new bearings for people as there is a chance damage can be done to other parts of the internals when pulling and refitting a bearing in situ.
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captain caveman
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

By the outer seal you mean the clutch side?
If the inner seal is worn wouldn't that leave oil leek out into the bell housing.
 
  
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911munKy
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 26 Nov 2014
Posts: 354



PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What does the collective forum think of these SKF dual row bearings?
Not quite as wide as the original dual row but possibly better than the single row replacement? £22

https://www.onlinebearings.co.uk/3204-ATN9C3-SKF-Double-Row-Angular-Contact-Ball-Bearing-Polyamide-Cage.html

It would be interesting to know what Hartech thinks of these bearings or if they have any experience of them as they are experts in this area.

Im not sure if that is the best bearing but here are other dual row in the same size:
https://www.onlinebearings.co.uk/Double-Row-Angular-Contact-Bearing/
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Demort
Paul Ricard


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 3448
Location: Sussex


PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

captain caveman wrote:
By the outer seal you mean the clutch side?
If the inner seal is worn wouldn't that leave oil leek out into the bell housing.


When you remove the IMS seal you can see the bearing , that has a black seal on it and its that one you remove .

The outer IMS seal seals it , the inner black one is just a cover on the bearing .
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infrasilver
Fast & Furious
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Joined: 04 Oct 2010
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Location: East Midlands

2001 Porsche 996 Targa

PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

911munKy wrote:
What does the collective forum think of these SKF dual row bearings?
Not quite as wide as the original dual row but possibly better than the single row replacement? £22

https://www.onlinebearings.co.uk/3204-ATN9C3-SKF-Double-Row-Angular-Contact-Ball-Bearing-Polyamide-Cage.html


I think the replacement single row that is to replace the no longer available double row is packed with a spacer to take up the space so I assume this would be the same process but with a thinner spacer for this double row?
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911munKy
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Joined: 26 Nov 2014
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That was my thought but it got me thinking that the replacement SKF dual row bearing in the posted link would be a better more reliable bearing than the single row one.

I guess we might never know until someone like Hartech puts it to the test but I imagine that on specification alone it is an improvement, maybe in the future it will be the preferred replacement bearing Dont know
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infrasilver
Fast & Furious
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Joined: 04 Oct 2010
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Location: East Midlands

2001 Porsche 996 Targa

PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is the thing, we get great advice from Hartech because of their research and development ideas that spend many hours in development engines, not to mention the cost of all this.

If we just went for it I would assume there would be no issues BUT there would always be that nagging doubt that something may have been overlooked.
LN or others designs just don't have any research to back up their product and rely on terrified Porsche owners just taking the plunge for them get their development results from them while making some profit out of them.
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911munKy
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Joined: 26 Nov 2014
Posts: 354



PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 4:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree, from what I understand the school of thought in the U.K. Is changing to a 'if it ain't broke don't fix it' mentality on cars over ~60,000m due to possible other side effects during the procedure, always worth an inspection and seal flip during a clutch replacement though.

Am I right in thinking that the bearing is C3 clearance?
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captain caveman
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Joined: 26 Jul 2017
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Going to be checking mine in the near future, If the bearing is worn.
Whats the best replacement?
I was thinking of the roller type.
Anyone know what Hartec use?
Im expecting my to have a duel bearing.
 
  
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infrasilver
Fast & Furious
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Joined: 04 Oct 2010
Posts: 7134
Location: East Midlands

2001 Porsche 996 Targa

PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hartech use the standard same spec bearing with inner and outer seals removed as I have in mine below on my 3.6. If you upgrade to the larger bearing it's a better solution but this requires the cases to be split and machining work to be done not as straight forward for the 3.4 though.


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