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MattyR
Nürburgring


Joined: 21 Sep 2015
Posts: 489
Location: Somewhere Nr Tunbridge Wells, Kent


PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 3:11 pm    Post subject: Pros & Cons of Varioram and Non-Varioram engines Reply with quote

Prompted by an earlier thread concerning the possible conversion of Endoman’s non-Varioram unit to Varioram, it got me thinking. Is the updated unit considered wholly better or does the non-VR engine have any traits prefered over it’s beefier sibling?..
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gunner
Montreal


Joined: 04 Jul 2014
Posts: 588
Location: Kent


PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Simplicity has a to be in favour of the Non-VR.
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NottsRS
Barcelona


Joined: 11 Jan 2009
Posts: 1328



PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The VR system was developed for the RS
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Albionmuz
Silverstone


Joined: 28 Oct 2016
Posts: 141
Location: West Sussex


PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I imagine the best is the one you have in your car, just like car and interior colours, that's how it works isn't it? Smile
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stichill99
Monza


Joined: 03 Nov 2013
Posts: 215
Location: Scottish Borders


PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 5:57 pm    Post subject: Non vr Reply with quote

In a recent interview Mr RS himself Andreas Prune.........er said he has a non vr 993 and considers it the pick of the bunch!
 
  
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stevewak
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 08 Jun 2013
Posts: 331
Location: UK


PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nick Faure prefers non-vario.
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highway
Albert Park


Joined: 08 Nov 2007
Posts: 1664



PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deniers. My 285bhp kicks sand in your underdeveloped faces.
 
  
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berni29
Watkins Glen


Joined: 24 Oct 2009
Posts: 2175
Location: Kent


PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

I have a mapped non vario, and it picks up much better than when it was standard. I have heard it said that the non vario cars take a map better than the varios.

I have never driven a vario, but I would be a bit miffed if they weren't at least a bit better!

Berni
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993 C2 Tip 1994 187k miles. Black and Grey. M029 & Bilstein HD's, Elephant Racing RS bushes F&R, RS mounts, strengthened engine carrier, 100 cell cat inserts, HID's. Solid steering arms mod, top of the engine rebuilt, mapped by Wayne, suspension set up by Chris.
 
  
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NottsRS
Barcelona


Joined: 11 Jan 2009
Posts: 1328



PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^^never driven a non VR 993 but for balance/comparison my ex VR 4S was superb after a Wayne remap with just over 315bhp pulling strong throughout the range without the need to keep the revs high to stir it up Thumb
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imac
Newbie


Joined: 04 Dec 2013
Posts: 37
Location: Durham


PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, is the key a good remap on either version to deliver the full potential??
 
  
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madalaa
Yas Marina


Joined: 13 Mar 2008
Posts: 8855
Location: West London

1995 Porsche 993 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

highway wrote:
Deniers. My 285bhp kicks sand in your underdeveloped faces.


....... er Steve ....... I didn't notice that when we were up in Wales earlier in the year ......... Floor
 
  
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berni29
Watkins Glen


Joined: 24 Oct 2009
Posts: 2175
Location: Kent


PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

If we are chatting about remaps I shall tell you my short story.

My car is a Tip, and right from the start I was never really happy with the way the car picked up from low speeds. Even after rebuilding the engine to fix a broken piston rng it was still lacklustre.

So one day I am on eBay and I see a remapped chip for £20. I think it even included postage. So in a moment of why not, I bought it.

Chip arrives, I fit it to the ECU and sure enough like magic the car's pick up is significantly improved. So as one would expect I am pleased. The only problem is that now the rev limit seems to be lower than or equal to the gearbox change up points in first and second gears. I cannot remember about third gear. So I get in touch with the chap who sold the chip and ask him if he has any thoughts on the matter. He replies and apologies that he did not realise it was a Tip, the chip is unsuitable and refunds (unasked) the £20. I offer to send the chip back but he doesn't want it.

I still have the old chip, but the £20 one is so much better that I drive on it for a year or so before getting Wayne at Chipwizards to map it. He commented that the checksum on the map was wrong and the rev limit was too low as a result.

So Wayne remaps the car and it drives even better. Quite a lot better in fact. I cannot remember the last time I felt that the car piccks up sluggishly or does not pull as hard as one would expect.

iF I ever buy another 993, it's one of the very first things I would have done. Anyone who says that the (tips at least) cars do not benefit from a decent remap has never had one.

All the best

Berni
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993 C2 Tip 1994 187k miles. Black and Grey. M029 & Bilstein HD's, Elephant Racing RS bushes F&R, RS mounts, strengthened engine carrier, 100 cell cat inserts, HID's. Solid steering arms mod, top of the engine rebuilt, mapped by Wayne, suspension set up by Chris.
 
  
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Tobesetc
Suzuka


Joined: 02 Jun 2014
Posts: 1241
Location: West London, UK


PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agree

highway wrote:
Deniers. My 285bhp kicks sand in your underdeveloped faces.


When did you last measure the "285"bhp? If never, I'll wager my NVR-chipped 305bhp kicks sand in your face and pokes you on the nose!

You have to get it chipped by Wayne, it's compulsory Cop
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tim993
Shanghai


Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Posts: 4959
Location: Hampshire


PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

madalaa wrote:
highway wrote:
Deniers. My 285bhp kicks sand in your underdeveloped faces.


....... er Steve ....... I didn't notice that when we were up in Wales earlier in the year ......... Floor


Steve was picturing himself in a computer game Smile Smile
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AP90
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 25 Sep 2004
Posts: 290
Location: Cornwall UK


PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I drove my friend's NV tip C2 and didn't notice much difference to mine (96 VR Manual C2), neither car has been chipped.

Not sure there's a lot in it, but when I open the rear lid I like the look of all that alloy in there...............

Mine isn't "scripted" tho' so that's a thumbs down

Sorry, not very scientific
 
  
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highway
Albert Park


Joined: 08 Nov 2007
Posts: 1664



PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I haven't had my car remapped. I can see how driveability could be improved. Unless the standard engines make vastly more bhp than Porsche claim,
I can't see how a remap on any NA car finds the alleged 20bhp plus figure bandied around here. No other NA car I'm aware of can make a gain near that amount via a map.
 
  
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mohitos
Barcelona


Joined: 10 Jul 2012
Posts: 1366
Location: London

1995 Porsche 993 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mine allegedly has 309bhp after a Wayne remap.

As per Highway's post, a bit hard to believe Dont know

For me, the remap, particularly on Vario cars, is a great health-check that the Vario is all working as it should. Wayne seems to find a high percentage of cars where it's not.

Whether the reported results are accurate, who knows. Or perhaps the 285bhp factory reported outputs were understated back in the day.
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Tobesetc
Suzuka


Joined: 02 Jun 2014
Posts: 1241
Location: West London, UK


PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wayne always gives a Before & After chart, so even if the absolute numbers are not correct, the relative increase must be (I watched the figures come out of the machine, so he's not ***** them).

EDIT-for some reason the word meaning to misrepresent rhyming with "making" is picked up as an expletive!
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ColinC
Imola


Joined: 16 May 2013
Posts: 874
Location: Sunny Central Scotland


PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When we all did the group buy with Wayne a few years ago it was considered his dyno was reading 'a bit high' but as Tobes says it's the delta that's important - not forgetting driveability.

Well worth a visit in my opinion....
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HPNer
Hockenheim


Joined: 25 Jun 2014
Posts: 685
Location: Jolly Boyos Country


PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I too have had a Wayne re-map on my non-VR and the runs showed:

Before 282bhp@6631rpm

After 313bhp@6035rpm

Rather annoyingly his dyno printout operates differing scales on the graph for bhp and torque. As you know bhp is an expression of torque so when the graph is scaled correctly all power and torque curves cross at 5252 rpm for all engines and Wayne's doesn't.

Having said that the curves are way smoother which is replicted in the driving experience.

As for peak power, that's all smoke and mirrors in my view Hand

I think Porsche underplayed the peak output for these engines so that none would read below the stated output. I would imagine that many delivered significantly more power than Porsche stated.

I've driven both, and on a purely personal level, I've always preferred a cammier engine which the non VR provides, it really picks its clogs up just after 4200 rpm which is quite addictive!
Grin
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Faster, faster, faster, until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death...
 
  
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