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T8
General
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Joined: 29 Jun 2010
Posts: 12950
Location: Kent


PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

daz parker wrote:


.......... I wouldn't of put too much thought on it but when you talk about 997.1's on here nearly all say don't get one get the 997.2 for peace of mind etc so when I do come to sell it and they come here for info they will get the same answers.



The advice might stay the same but at the end of the day the two cars will fall into different price brackets and different buyers will always have different budgets.

If people haven't got the budget for a 997.2 they will buy a 997.1.

Nobody reading this forum would ever have bought a 996 Carrera of any description if this wasn't the case. Smile

The advice on here will be useful to allow people to go in with their eyes open as all 997s can be brilliant value for money if bought right.
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Kimbo
Paul Ricard


Joined: 05 May 2011
Posts: 3454
Location: East Sussex


PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RSJ Porsche.

No Payment = no Test drive.

"Not even if it means you'll lose a sale?"
"No. We sell ten cars a week."
 
  
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daz parker
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 12 Aug 2015
Posts: 301



PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kimbo wrote:
RSJ Porsche.

No Payment = no Test drive.

"Not even if it means you'll lose a sale?"
"No. We sell ten cars a week."


Yeah that attitude doesn't work for me.

I guess they have full confidence in what they are selling but still not for me.
 
  
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daz parker
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 12 Aug 2015
Posts: 301



PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

T8 wrote:
daz parker wrote:


.......... I wouldn't of put too much thought on it but when you talk about 997.1's on here nearly all say don't get one get the 997.2 for peace of mind etc so when I do come to sell it and they come here for info they will get the same answers.



The advice might stay the same but at the end of the day the two cars will fall into different price brackets and different buyers will always have different budgets.

If people haven't got the budget for a 997.2 they will buy a 997.1.

Nobody reading this forum would ever have bought a 996 Carrera of any description if this wasn't the case. Smile

The advice on here will be useful to allow people to go in with their eyes open as all 997s can be brilliant value for money if bought right.


I always factor in how hard it will be to re sell and I'm sure they would come here for info hence my concern.

TBH this forum has put me off more than making me want to buy one, I still will buy one as I've read horror stories about all the cars I've ever owned.

All cars have the big issue that you fear.
 
  
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Phil 997
Shanghai
Shanghai


Joined: 05 Dec 2015
Posts: 10048
Location: Bournemouth,Dorset

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Daz, please try not to overthink the issue remember its only the few who have had a problem that shout about it on the internet , no one posts "drove my car today and nothing went wrong " Grin I had my gen1 for four years did 50k of the 89k miles I sold it with and I got 3k more for it than I paid for it.
when selling it they borescoped it and clean as a whistle and it was a tiptronic.
I must admit I had an 06 car with the newer IMS bearing so that was never an issue for me personally.

As I have said before if you owned pretty much any other car it would depreciate over 4 years by more than an getting borescore fixed on a 997 cost so even as a worst case scenario it wouldn't cost you more over 4 years than driving a eurobox . also these cars can be Porsche warrantied up to 14 years old for about 1k pa after passing an 111 point check which can be negotiated at the time of sale. this warranty can be added no matter where you buy the car from. so even an 06 car you could get 2/3 years full Porsche warranty on for total peace free driving if you are the worrying type. Thumb
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daz parker
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 12 Aug 2015
Posts: 301



PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was told today that the larger ims was fitted from Feb 2005 I contested it but told again it's Feb 2005.
 
  
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Kimbo
Paul Ricard


Joined: 05 May 2011
Posts: 3454
Location: East Sussex


PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

daz parker wrote:
Kimbo wrote:
RSJ Porsche.

No Payment = no Test drive.

"Not even if it means you'll lose a sale?"
"No. We sell ten cars a week."


Yeah that attitude doesn't work for me.



That's two of us then.
 
  
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Phil 997
Shanghai
Shanghai


Joined: 05 Dec 2015
Posts: 10048
Location: Bournemouth,Dorset

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

+3 Always amazes me when I read on here that guys are expected to buy the car without a test drive. I understand them avoiding the dream chasers just wanting a spin in a 911 but its quite easy to see who genuine and whos a time waster. Thumb
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toffeeman
Monza


Joined: 05 Mar 2009
Posts: 164



PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can I ask what people’s interpretation of a “test drive” is?

I’m 44 and have never test driven a car in my life before purchase. I’ve never gone to a car sale expecting to drive the car as I’ve never bothered to arrange insurance. I’ve always requested that the owner takes me out for a drive with them driving. I’m content enough to listen out for erroneous noises and feel the pull from the passenger seat. It’s worked for me my entire life as every car I’ve ever owned has been spot on. All private sales as well, I’ve never bought from a dealership ever. It’s also worked with selling as well. Nobody has ever turned up on my door step with insurance expecting to drive my car. I’ve taken them out for a drive and the sale went though on that basis.

It would be interesting to see what people’s expectations are with regards to what they expect from a “test drive”.
 
  
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daz parker
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Joined: 12 Aug 2015
Posts: 301



PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 7:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My opinion is yes I would like to drive the car and take along fully comprehensive insurance paperwork but if it's trade they should have a policy (failing that I have trade plates I could take)

I want to drive if possible to feel if there are any knocks or vibrations transfered through the steering wheel from braking, acceleration or cornering. Yes you can fell some of this when sat in the passenger side but the best seat is the drivers imo.

For me personally on buying a 911 I'd like to drive one as I've never drove one. I want to make sure I fit ok in the seats and it's what I've dreamed it to be. Not a fancy beetle as all my mates keep telling me.

I've sold two cars and one motorbike this week (not a trader just having a clear out), one bought one car no test drive but a cheap motor, other bought my shoe van without a test drive but I took him for a drive for 30 mins plus one day then picked him up from railway station which is another 30 mins drive. The guy who bought the ktm 300 wanted to ride it, this is an off road bike but was ok with a road test ride.

So yes everybody has a drifferent idea of a test drive but when I'm spending my money I want to drive it.
 
  
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ash005
Newbie


Joined: 22 Aug 2016
Posts: 13
Location: west yorks


PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

daz parker wrote:
My opinion is yes I would like to drive the car and take along fully comprehensive insurance paperwork but if it's trade they should have a policy (failing that I have trade plates I could take)

I want to drive if possible to feel if there are any knocks or vibrations transfered through the steering wheel from braking, acceleration or cornering. Yes you can fell some of this when sat in the passenger side but the best seat is the drivers imo.

For me personally on buying a 911 I'd like to drive one as I've never drove one. I want to make sure I fit ok in the seats and it's what I've dreamed it to be. Not a fancy beetle as all my mates keep telling me.

I've sold two cars and one motorbike this week (not a trader just having a clear out), one bought one car no test drive but a cheap motor, other bought my shoe van without a test drive but I took him for a drive for 30 mins plus one day then picked him up from railway station which is another 30 mins drive. The guy who bought the ktm 300 wanted to ride it, this is an off road bike but was ok with a road test ride.

So yes everybody has a drifferent idea of a test drive but when I'm spending my money I want to drive it.


the other option is buy private, i bought my current 997.2 private - nice bloke and a good test drive

ash .
 
  
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daz parker
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 12 Aug 2015
Posts: 301



PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ash005 wrote:
daz parker wrote:
My opinion is yes I would like to drive the car and take along fully comprehensive insurance paperwork but if it's trade they should have a policy (failing that I have trade plates I could take)

I want to drive if possible to feel if there are any knocks or vibrations transfered through the steering wheel from braking, acceleration or cornering. Yes you can fell some of this when sat in the passenger side but the best seat is the drivers imo.

For me personally on buying a 911 I'd like to drive one as I've never drove one. I want to make sure I fit ok in the seats and it's what I've dreamed it to be. Not a fancy beetle as all my mates keep telling me.

I've sold two cars and one motorbike this week (not a trader just having a clear out), one bought one car no test drive but a cheap motor, other bought my shoe van without a test drive but I took him for a drive for 30 mins plus one day then picked him up from railway station which is another 30 mins drive. The guy who bought the ktm 300 wanted to ride it, this is an off road bike but was ok with a road test ride.

So yes everybody has a drifferent idea of a test drive but when I'm spending my money I want to drive it.


the other option is buy private, i bought my current 997.2 private - nice bloke and a good test drive

ash .


TBH ash I am leaning towards that as I think even buying off an Indy it's not a bad idea to have another independent person check over the car for me. So if I'm doing that then why pay the extra premium for buying from an Indy.

Yes I'm sure some will say a certain Indy is 100% trustworthy but I've worked all the hours to get the cash so I'd like to be certain it's right.
 
  
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Kimbo
Paul Ricard


Joined: 05 May 2011
Posts: 3454
Location: East Sussex


PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't buy a car without test-driving it.
I don't buy a house without walking around it.
I don't buy a guitar without playing it first.
I don't buy jeans or shoes without trying them on.

The 'no test drive' dealer attitude sucks and I now look forward to a verbal forecourt battle while they are trying to usher me into their office to 'do the paperwork' before I've even driven their car.

When I bought a Porsche from Paragon (Probably the Best Dealer in The World) I went there for a 997.

I was handed the keys and told to take my time and go off for a drive. On the drive, I found the suspension way too hard. The salesman agreed that with 19" wheels and no PASM, the ride was on the firm side and not the car for me.

So he gave me a 996 and off I went. I didn't get on with the Tip box for some reason. Can't remember.

Then I tried a 993 and everything fell into place. I drove for about 20 minutes on my own. Returned to base, bought the car, but only when I had convinced the salesman that it was the model for me.

So without a test drive I would have made the wrong purchase and been stuck with a bumpy 997 that I was pressured into buying.

I've never sold a car either without insisting the potential buyer has a test drive.

The whole idea is mad, unless you've tried the exact model previously at another dealer or friend and know exactly what you want.

From a dealer when attempting to buy a Cayman:

Me: The car looks great, can we take it down the road please.
Him: The car is fully prepped and wants for nothing, you won't find anything wrong with our cars , so we don't do test drives I'm afraid.
Me: What if I don't like the clutch/gearbox/suspension, the way it drives etc?
Him: Go to a Main dealer and try out the model you want, use their petrol, and then come back to us.

So of course I went elsewhere and the polite and accommodating Ashgood Porsche got my dosh. (After a 20 minute test drive, of course).
 
  
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Phil 997
Shanghai
Shanghai


Joined: 05 Dec 2015
Posts: 10048
Location: Bournemouth,Dorset

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

daz parker wrote:
I was told today that the larger ims was fitted from Feb 2005 I contested it but told again it's Feb 2005.


Daz here is the definitive info so you can be armed and not get BS from the seller as you can clearly see some late 05 were done and all post march 06 cars were done , but heres the engine numbers so hang on to it as its the no BS info you need .

Last IMS revision before no IMS (Gen2 MA1 block):

997 Carrera 3.6 with engine numbers from M96/0569507475 are the new IMS design.

M96/05 = 997 3.6 Carrera NA
6 = 6 cylinders
9 = design revision
5 = year (2005)
07475 = cumulative production serial

This means some MY2005 benefit and all MY2006 onwards benefit.


997 Carrera S 3.8 with engine numbers from M97/0168509790 are the new IMS design.

M97/01 = 997 3.8 Carrera NA
6 = 6 cylinders
8 = design revision
5 = year (2005)
09790 = cumulative production serial

This means some MY2005 benefit and all MY2006 onwards benefit.
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Phil 997
Shanghai
Shanghai


Joined: 05 Dec 2015
Posts: 10048
Location: Bournemouth,Dorset

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kimbo wrote:
I don't buy a car without test-driving it.
I don't buy a house without walking around it.
I don't buy a guitar without playing it first.
I don't buy jeans or shoes without trying them on.

The 'no test drive' dealer attitude sucks and I now look forward to a verbal forecourt battle while they are trying to usher me into their office to 'do the paperwork' before I've even driven their car.

When I bought a Porsche from Paragon (Probably the Best Dealer in The World) I went there for a 997.

I was handed the keys and told to take my time and go off for a drive. On the drive, I found the suspension way too hard. The salesman agreed that with 19" wheels and no PASM, the ride was on the firm side and not the car for me.

So he gave me a 996 and off I went. I didn't get on with the Tip box for some reason. Can't remember.

Then I tried a 993 and everything fell into place. I drove for about 20 minutes on my own. Returned to base, bought the car, but only when I had convinced the salesman that it was the model for me.

So without a test drive I would have made the wrong purchase and been stuck with a bumpy 997 that I was pressured into buying.

I've never sold a car either without insisting the potential buyer has a test drive.

The whole idea is mad, unless you've tried the exact model previously at another dealer or friend and know exactly what you want.

From a dealer when attempting to buy a Cayman:

Me: The car looks great, can we take it down the road please.
Him: The car is fully prepped and wants for nothing, you won't find anything wrong with our cars , so we don't do test drives I'm afraid.
Me: What if I don't like the clutch/gearbox/suspension, the way it drives etc?
Him: Go to a Main dealer and try out the model you want, use their petrol, and then come back to us.

So of course I went elsewhere and the polite and accommodating Ashgood Porsche got my dosh. (After a 20 minute test drive, of course).


Floor Floor I never married any of my wives without a test drive first , imagine finding you have just married a ladyboy or a tranny half way through the ops. Grin Grin Thumb
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HSC911
Paul Ricard


Joined: 23 Jul 2014
Posts: 3259
Location: Bedford


PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phil 997 wrote:
Floor Floor I never married any of my wives without a test drive first , imagine finding you have just married a ladyboy or a tranny half way through the ops. Grin Grin Thumb




Floor Floor Floor Floor Floor
 
  
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Kimbo
Paul Ricard


Joined: 05 May 2011
Posts: 3454
Location: East Sussex


PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phil 997 wrote:
I never married any of my wives without a test drive first , imagine finding you have just married a ladyboy or a tranny half way through the ops.


Exactly

"Shall we go and do the paperwork, nice English man?"
"No. I want to see if you've got the remains of a knob under there".

The rule still applies.
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mzmini
Barcelona


Joined: 30 Jan 2015
Posts: 1258
Location: Somerset


PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phil did you ever test drive a lady boy Grin ?
_________________
997 3.8 C2S
987 Boxster 3.4S
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2012 VW Polo

1964 1071 Cooper S
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daz parker
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 12 Aug 2015
Posts: 301



PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You guys have just stepped up another level in my respect for you!!

I wasn't sure I'd fit in here but I like your humour.....
 
  
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mzmini
Barcelona


Joined: 30 Jan 2015
Posts: 1258
Location: Somerset


PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Daz you will be fine just keep away from that nasty Phillip Floor
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987 Boxster 3.4S
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2012 VW Polo

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1971 1275 Cooper S as new time warp
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