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BK911
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 16 Mar 2008
Posts: 251
Location: London

1990 Porsche 964 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've quietly been on the hunt too and just pulled the trigger on one last week.

When you find one you'll be glad you did. A decent 996 C4s is a bit more special than a 997.1 from the cars I've seen and driven. There's a real sense of occasion and something very modern classic about them. Wide-body with that rear end!

I too saw some rather sketchy disappointing cars from specialist dealers.. One near Biggin Hill even had a slug crawling in its engine bay with horrible paintwork. Knackered interiors or main items (ims, rms etc) not done and asking price near £30k.. No thanks!

Found a car privately from a real gentleman who bought the car from Parr last year and then had a change in circumstances. Manual, sound history and only a couple of owners. They do exist! Persist and find your car.

Good luck thumbsup
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BChivs
Monza


Joined: 02 Aug 2017
Posts: 157



PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 7:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BK911 wrote:
I've quietly been on the hunt too and just pulled the trigger on one last week.

When you find one you'll be glad you did. A decent 996 C4s is a bit more special than a 997.1 from the cars I've seen and driven. There's a real sense of occasion and something very modern classic about them. Wide-body with that rear end!

I too saw some rather sketchy disappointing cars from specialist dealers.. One near Biggin Hill even had a slug crawling in its engine bay with horrible paintwork. Knackered interiors or main items (ims, rms etc) not done and asking price near £30k.. No thanks!

Found a car privately from a real gentleman who bought the car from Parr last year and then had a change in circumstances. Manual, sound history and only a couple of owners. They do exist! Persist and find your car.

Good advice I think....To be honest I am in no real rush. I have the cash burning a hole in my pocket, but I am not the sort to make impulse decisions and let myself get lured in by the excitement.

Your car sounds nice....Any pics?

Good luck thumbsup
 
  
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wasz
Kyalami


Joined: 28 Dec 2012
Posts: 1825


1999 Porsche 996 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It was the same on my hunt for a 100k+ C2 (yes my budget only stretched that far).

Average money cars, on the phone "great car you will love it". When you turn up the window, sunroof and air con doesn't work, idling high, interior filthy and bonnet release cable dangling out. I was shown the door when bidding a fair price.

I went all over the country, eventually settled on one that was on the money but needed work. I bid them fair price to account for the work and they went for it.

That meant the car was cheap, but I put new suspension on it and all rubber mountings and ball joints, so for less ££ than an average car I got one that drives like new.

Worth thinking about - private buyers will have been bid int he balls at trade in but still advertise their cars on the money. They are much more likely to come down to anything above the trade in price than dealer.

Even more so if they have been quoted by the OPC or a specialist for simple jobs like suspension and air con.
 
  
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Jackzi
Newbie


Joined: 30 Aug 2015
Posts: 43
Location: Sussex


PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've had similar experiences in my search.

Started with a budget of 15k for a targa and soon found that no matter which way I sliced it, the cars I was looking at would end up costing me near 20.

So I've had to up the budget to that figure and still I'm finding cars with tappety engines and soot on the left tailpipe (a C4S that sold after a day nevertheless and then went to auction) for example. Or other cars that will need suspension refreshes plus new pads/discs/tyres. It all adds up.

From what I've found, people can seem blinded by the 'C4S' moniker and expect the prices to hold firm or increase no matter what. I'd be doubtful about that being the case with the ones I've seen and the condition they've been in.

That said, I've really taken to the way a C4S looks as well and have also been guilty of overdoing my man maths and trying hard to ignore potential foibles.

It's the siren of the 996 world frustrated
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BK911
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 16 Mar 2008
Posts: 251
Location: London

1990 Porsche 964 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BChivs wrote:
BK911 wrote:
I've quietly been on the hunt too and just pulled the trigger on one last week.

When you find one you'll be glad you did. A decent 996 C4s is a bit more special than a 997.1 from the cars I've seen and driven. There's a real sense of occasion and something very modern classic about them. Wide-body with that rear end!

I too saw some rather sketchy disappointing cars from specialist dealers.. One near Biggin Hill even had a slug crawling in its engine bay with horrible paintwork. Knackered interiors or main items (ims, rms etc) not done and asking price near £30k.. No thanks!

Found a car privately from a real gentleman who bought the car from Parr last year and then had a change in circumstances. Manual, sound history and only a couple of owners. They do exist! Persist and find your car.

Good advice I think....To be honest I am in no real rush. I have the cash burning a hole in my pocket, but I am not the sort to make impulse decisions and let myself get lured in by the excitement.

Your car sounds nice....Any pics?

Good luck thumbsup


Thanks BChivs.

I've driven it everyday for a week before I sell my old car just to be sure its as robust as I need it to be... can't describe how happy I am. Solid, fun and rewarding. C4s is a real gem, in fact it's the car I've always wanted. Soon the market will wake up to it, don't rush but don't procrastinate for too long either.
I'd stick with the 996 C4s in manual format, it really is the one to have.

Here's the link to some photos:-
http://www.parr-uk.co.uk/sales/porsche-911-996-carrera-4-s-2002-52.html

It's booked in for the interior to be refurbished and I'm in discussion with Parr for a new exhaust and suspension



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mr gill
Monza


Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Posts: 212
Location: The Black Country


PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 2:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am quite surprised by all the sub standard cars you say you have seen, when i was looking (2011-2012) they were all in great condition to be fair, but that was before they bottomed out, which as mentioned before put them into the hands of people that may not have been able to afford the running costs.
When i started my search i specifically wanted manual, PCM2, PSE and just 'as nature intended' standard in every other way....
June 2012 i travelled down to Finlay Gorham, they had 2 for sale, a standard 2003 and then the second one.... It had the factory widebody aerokit and X73 suspension, i didnt want a harder ride than standard, that was until i test drove it and it blew my mind compared to the M3 i had! The X73 wasnt a gimmick, the handling is just unreal, and boy does it turn heads!

These cars are getting old now, mine is no garage queen, but its not meant to be, it was my only car for 2 years before i realised racking up almost 10k a year was a bit much, and so bought a second car for the commute.

Make sure you buy one that has good pads and discs, good tyres and have all of the brake pipes checked - i have had to replace almost all of mine in the last 5 years.

I keep thinking about selling her (the car not the missus!) but i have become so attached over the last 5 years that i keep thinking it will be my biggest regret. (like i wish i still had my Lancia delta integrale 16v!)
But you only live once, this year or early next year i will regretfully put it up for sale, its time for a GT car for me, specifically a granturismo - i am in love with the looks!

Keep up the search, there are lots to choose from and it may seem disheartening now, but when you finally have one it will be smiles all day long! It is the longest i have ever owned a car, and for good reason...you simply cannot buy a better car for the money!
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2007 Alfa 159 sportwagon 1.9jtdm decat, dpf/egr delete
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40Anni996
Silverstone


Joined: 22 Apr 2009
Posts: 118



PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 7:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mr gill wrote:
I am quite surprised by all the sub standard cars you say you have seen, when i was looking (2011-2012) they were all in great condition to be fair, but that was before they bottomed out, which as mentioned before put them into the hands of people that may not have been able to afford the running costs.
When i started my search i specifically wanted manual, PCM2, PSE and just 'as nature intended' standard in every other way....
June 2012 i travelled down to Finlay Gorham, they had 2 for sale, a standard 2003 and then the second one.... It had the factory widebody aerokit and X73 suspension, i didnt want a harder ride than standard, that was until i test drove it and it blew my mind compared to the M3 i had! The X73 wasnt a gimmick, the handling is just unreal, and boy does it turn heads!

These cars are getting old now, mine is no garage queen, but its not meant to be, it was my only car for 2 years before i realised racking up almost 10k a year was a bit much, and so bought a second car for the commute.

Make sure you buy one that has good pads and discs, good tyres and have all of the brake pipes checked - i have had to replace almost all of mine in the last 5 years.

I keep thinking about selling her (the car not the missus!) but i have become so attached over the last 5 years that i keep thinking it will be my biggest regret. (like i wish i still had my Lancia delta integrale 16v!)
But you only live once, this year or early next year i will regretfully put it up for sale, its time for a GT car for me, specifically a granturismo - i am in love with the looks!

Keep up the search, there are lots to choose from and it may seem disheartening now, but when you finally have one it will be smiles all day long! It is the longest i have ever owned a car, and for good reason...you simply cannot buy a better car for the money!



I think you've answered your own question there. These cars are now 50% older than when you were looking.

To me the OP has two choices: hang on in there for that pampered example that someone's letting go due to a change in circumstances or needing to scratch another itch, or pick up a more readily available (and I'd wager considerably cheaper) "used" car, without anything obviously dodgy about it and a solid history and spend some money bringing it up to the standard he'd like. The former will come along eventually, the latter's more readily available now, but then requires some effort once bought. Depends on your preference.
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tom_nieto
Trainee


Joined: 08 Jan 2017
Posts: 93



PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 7:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was looking at a manual C4S cabriolet as my first 911 at the tail end of last year. I love the looks (still do!) but the prices were starting to really ramp up. I saw a well spec'd minter with 16,000 miles on it for £33k last October which seemed like crazy money then, but not so much now. I then saw one with about 50,000 miles on which looked decent, but I found mismatched tyres on the rear axle (the dealer didn't seem to think this was concerning at all) a lack of options for about £25k, decent service history though.

I then came to the conclusion that despite the C4S being really distinctive and a true bargain a couple of years ago it would be madness to buy one when a really good 997.1 is the same price or even less than a really good C4S right now. The 997 S is faster, arguably handles better and has a more modern interior. There are also more around to choose from so you can be more fussy finding the right car. Whilst some might say that the 996 will continue to appreciate and the 997 will continue to fall over the next few years, there is no evidence of good 997's dropping in value. Once the bottom end of the market rots away as per the 996, we'll be left with good examples and values will hold steady.

Personal choice and all that, just thought I'd share my thought process when faced with this at the end of last year.
 
  
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captain caveman
Trainee


Joined: 26 Jul 2017
Posts: 88



PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Depending on the price of the car i don't think the lack of service stamps would put me off buying.
Some home serviced car that are owned by enthusiasts and now there way around a tool box can be just as good if not better.
My car has a full history and it pains me that im going to have to pay around £200 for a oil change just so i can have the book stamped.
Especially as i know im more than capable of doing it myself for a fraction of the cost.
 
  
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BChivs
Monza


Joined: 02 Aug 2017
Posts: 157



PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

captain caveman wrote:
Depending on the price of the car i don't think the lack of service stamps would put me off buying.
Some home serviced car that are owned by enthusiasts and now there way around a tool box can be just as good if not better.
My car has a full history and it pains me that im going to have to pay around £200 for a oil change just so i can have the book stamped.
Especially as i know im more than capable of doing it myself for a fraction of the cost.


Trouble is there is no way of knowing if it has been maintained at all!....When there is a 6 year gap in the service book and no further paperwork to assume otherwise it is too much risk....These are great cars if properly maintained, but buy wrong and it could be a very costly decision which would inherently leave a very bad taste. Not only this, but a car with a service history maintained at reputable dealerships will always demand more money and be more desirable. It might be a teeth dryer sometimes paying dealer prices for servicing but in my eyes money well spent to protect your investment.
 
  
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40Anni996
Silverstone


Joined: 22 Apr 2009
Posts: 118



PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BChivs wrote:
captain caveman wrote:
Depending on the price of the car i don't think the lack of service stamps would put me off buying.
Some home serviced car that are owned by enthusiasts and now there way around a tool box can be just as good if not better.
My car has a full history and it pains me that im going to have to pay around £200 for a oil change just so i can have the book stamped.
Especially as i know im more than capable of doing it myself for a fraction of the cost.


Trouble is there is no way of knowing if it has been maintained at all!....When there is a 6 year gap in the service book and no further paperwork to assume otherwise it is too much risk....These are great cars if properly maintained, but buy wrong and it could be a very costly decision which would inherently leave a very bad taste. Not only this, but a car with a service history maintained at reputable dealerships will always demand more money and be more desirable. It might be a teeth dryer sometimes paying dealer prices for servicing but in my eyes money well spent to protect your investment.


I'm with you on this. Enthusiasts know full well that lack of service history will put people off so they'll save evidence of items bought, pics of work they've done etc. Costs virtually nothing. Absence of anything like this for a period of time = run a mile.
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C4-STORM
Monza


Joined: 29 Aug 2017
Posts: 190
Location: Hampshire

2004 Porsche 996 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Picked mine up 2 weeks ago.

Same experience as OP - lot's of miss descriptions going on; poor paintwork usually front wings, bumper, engine management lights etc.

My original remit was manual, PSE, wasn't fussed about colour and best miles/history for the money.

In the end, upped my budget by £3k and sacrificed MT, PSE to get the right condition of car and colour/spec. combo

Some would do it differently but I am happy with the Tip trans.

Maybe consider compromising some items on the tick list for the cleanest all-round example your money will allow.

A clean, straight C4S is a beauty to behold Cloud 9
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Basalt Black ~ Black Leather Sports Embossed Wing-Back ~ Alcantara ~ K&N Induction Filter System ~ DesignTek S/S Sports Exhausts ~ Quad Exhaust Tips ~ S/R Delete
 
  
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tom_nieto
Trainee


Joined: 08 Jan 2017
Posts: 93



PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If servicing yourself you've got to provide documentation to back it up otherwise it's as good as not doing the work. Same for paintwork, always take photos before and after to prove it's not been in a crash!

I can't believe how crazy the prices have become on these - the red strip at the back is glorious, but 2 years ago this would be sensible turbo money. If only eh?
 
  
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BChivs
Monza


Joined: 02 Aug 2017
Posts: 157



PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've increased my budget by £10k since the beginning of my search!! Surprised

I began believing I would find a tidy car for £25k, and now I am finding myself seriously considering £35k cars and still sacrificing a few of my preferences!

I'm having to reign myself in a bit! The romance has made me take my brain out!
 
  
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Phil 997
Fuji


Joined: 05 Dec 2015
Posts: 9916
Location: Bournemouth,Dorset

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This one for sale on here looks really nice and is within your original budget, but dont hang about it was only listed 2 hrs ago

http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=122987
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C4-STORM
Monza


Joined: 29 Aug 2017
Posts: 190
Location: Hampshire

2004 Porsche 996 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

May not be what you are after but this one will come for £18k and is 3 owners current/previous husband and wife same address.

I am led to believe full engine replacement by Porsche 45k miles ago.

Just had £1500 worth of detailing carried out.

Caviat is amber light/exhaust related however MOT passed in July I think:

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201708017931144?radius=1501&advertising-location=at_cars&make=PORSCHE&sort=sponsored&model=911&postcode=po139jq&aggregatedTrim=996%20Carrera%204S&onesearchad=Used&page=1
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IanG1
Newbie


Joined: 08 Jan 2016
Posts: 31



PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How about this
http://www.andypageperformancecars.co.uk/used-porsche-996-northampton-northamptonshire-1227057
 
  
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BChivs
Monza


Joined: 02 Aug 2017
Posts: 157



PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IanG1 wrote:
How about this
http://www.andypageperformancecars.co.uk/used-porsche-996-northampton-northamptonshire-1227057


The Old 5 year service gap with zero other paperwork. Love the car, rare colour and Decent spec inc PSE, but there was a service carried out mid 2009, and then not serviced after that until August 2014. Only 5 stamps in the book and one is hand written with no stamp. This all put me off.
 
  
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mr gill
Monza


Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Posts: 212
Location: The Black Country


PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 3:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i take mine to a specialist for servicing and some repairs, but if its simple i buy the parts from porsche (there is a new one in wolverhampton next to where i work) or design 911, then get a mechanic friend to fit, but i keep every receipt in a folder, so as well as the service book i have a folder literally full of receipts. Always good come selling time.
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2004 996 C4S X73 and Aerokitted
2007 Alfa 159 sportwagon 1.9jtdm decat, dpf/egr delete
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7 more 3 series BMW.... (yes I like them!)
 
  
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mr gill
Monza


Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Posts: 212
Location: The Black Country


PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 3:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BChivs wrote:
IanG1 wrote:
How about this
http://www.andypageperformancecars.co.uk/used-porsche-996-northampton-northamptonshire-1227057


The Old 5 year service gap with zero other paperwork. Love the car, rare colour and Decent spec inc PSE, but there was a service carried out mid 2009, and then not serviced after that until August 2014. Only 5 stamps in the book and one is hand written with no stamp. This all put me off.


What a rare colour! i would be tempted to get it plugged in and the operating hours checked, it could well have been clocked back with such a large gap in service history.
And yes i know its not 100% reliably checking hours, but it only officially gets reset if you have the DME replaced (so i am told). I found this out when my local specialist plugged my car in and told me the hours dont match the miles...my heart sank! I scanned through the folder i have and voila! the DME was replace by porsche.
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2004 996 C4S X73 and Aerokitted
2007 Alfa 159 sportwagon 1.9jtdm decat, dpf/egr delete
Gone but not forgotten 2002 E46 M3
7 more 3 series BMW.... (yes I like them!)
 
  
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