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Joined: 04 Jun 2009
Posts: 939

PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chigster wrote:
This for sale thread kind of sums up one side of the argument.



Not being funny but which side does it sum up? It doesn't say he opted to have a perfect engine rebuilt. Dont know
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Joined: 29 May 2010
Posts: 342

PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for this Marky, I understand now! Thumb

I was specifically looking at the crank repair:

Baz's guidance: 'We can do the whole job (Non Maintenance Plan) of replacing the crankshaft shells (which is the main issue we have raised with over 100K cars) for £3630 + vat'.

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Joined: 04 Jun 2009
Posts: 939

PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No problem Blue,
yes I saw the various figures and that crankshaft one isn't bad when viewed in isolation, however having had several 911 engines rebuilt over the years you never open one up and find it only needs the minimum you'd hoped for. Grin

It's always a case of "while you're in there you'd be daft not to do this and that". That's why if the car was going to Hartech I'd want the full works, otherwise if you came to sell it you'd only have prospective buyers saying "Well it hasn't had a proper Hartech rebuild has it". Wink

My main reason for posting on this thread is if there's enough noise made about the engines needing a rebuild by 100k even if its still running fine, then people may start to believe it.
This opens up a whole can of worms when in he future you start to get buyers who aren't fully clued up saying "Well Baz from Hartech says they should all be rebuilt by 100k miles".

To me personally if a car is running fine, making good power, not drinking oil or making any noises then just enjoy it. Trying to second guess and head off problems that may not even be there is just madness and if I was that scared of the future I'd never leave the house, let alone drive fast cars. Wink
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Joined: 29 May 2010
Posts: 342

PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I do agree with you Marky that if the engine is opened, do all that is necessary.

I really don't want to extend this thread any further, but I don't thnk that Baz is saying "Well Baz from Hartech says they should all be rebuilt by 100k miles". He has gone to great length technically in his first post to explain the relative thinness of the bearing shells (in common with modern manufacture) and the crankshaft characteristics that shell wear is a potential problem at 100k. I think he is leaving the choice of rebuild open to the owner, but simply making us aware of his experience.

I have been looking for my next car and a Ferrari or V10 BMW needs this work much earlier (about 50k) so, you wouldn't dream of buying one of these without factoring in rebuild costs.

I have said in earlier posts that I would not buy a car at 100K for these sort of reasons, but to others there are some bargains to be had. At 90K I should have sold my car a couple of years ago, but I'm enjoying it and that is what ownership should really be.
Very Happy
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Joined: 18 Sep 2014
Posts: 1068

PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are definitely benefits to rebuilding before it goes pop but owners will individually make that call and there will be many factors dictating how one may proceed.

My C4S crank bearings were thread bare at 115k so glad I took the advise of the specialists to have a look in the bottom end while doing the required top end rebuild that took the car off the road. This did show of course that other areas required attention notably oval cylinder bores and who wouldn't put a new set of timing chains and guides in, check the ims bearing etc at the same time??

Prices are rising and there seem to be more and more threads of potential owners desperately trying to find nice clean cars. The c4s as an example is now into the 20k price bracket so perhaps owners would think hard about a rebuild as opposed to scrapping the vehicle for 6-8k (as there's no cheap buy in option now) if the engine let go and this will filter to the other base model cars in time just as it has with all 911's.

Do what you can to prolong engine life as all the m96 issues are known and enjoy the ride Thumb
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Joined: 04 Jun 2009
Posts: 939

PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Exactly, one way or another a performance car is going to cost you, it just depends which way around you want to do it. Thumb

My car is on 75k but the engine is only on 65k due to an IMS failure, so I'm not even too interested in the 100k mile debate. I just think there's already that psychological 100k barrier there and talk of needing, or at least recommending needing a rebuild by this milestone too, only causes more concern amongst owners and buyers, but yes as you say, the info is there for us all to interpret how we see fit.


Right I'm not looking at this thread again now. must resist. Grin

ETA - Yep Harv, you approached it properly and done a proper job! Cool
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Joined: 03 Jul 2016
Posts: 167
Location: Fife

PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had to get mine rebuilt, engine sounded sweet with no rattles at all, my symptoms were low oil pressure at hot idle to the point the oil light was on.

I changed the oil and oil pressure sender hoping for the best but the tell tale was the glitter ball in the bottom of the oil filter housing and the debris in the oil filter.

Upon restarting the car again everything sounded perfect so I found it hard to believe the bottom end was dying, same problem at hot idle oil light on, I drove for about 250 miles and opened up the oil filter again to reveal the same.

At this point there was still no rattles from the engine ( I've had big ends go before so know the noise) car still sounded spot on.

In the end it went to Hartech for a rebuild, when speaking to Grant he said that the crank wasn't serviceable so he had to source another crank, must have been run to long with the existing bearings and caused damage to the crank journals. I was hoping that existing crank would have been fine due to the fact it wasn't knocking but I was wrong, when they go tits up there proper expensive. Anyway just my 996 story
Carrera 4 MY99 with full Hartech rebuild
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Steve Gom

Joined: 04 May 2015
Posts: 153
Location: Stakeford, Northumberland

PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As I've mentioned previously, I've been putting some cash aside every month as as a contingency for 'engine work' since acquiring my 996 two and a half years ago.
Having absorbed so much great information from this site, not just from the likes of Baz/Grant Hartech and the other specialist companies with vast experience of this marque but also from the people that own, drive and fettle them and who have all contributed freely, I feel that I was making a well informed decision at the point of purchase. Well as much as you could expect from a thorough inspection and test drive of the car, studying a folder full of bills for maintenance and servicing and an hour interrogating the 8th owner.

The mileage query thread I originally posted was to gain some insight into the numbers of cars being used with over 100k miles on them but I don't think I was really asking the right question!

The pre-emptive rebuild is something I will be considering and will speak to Hartech about potentially joining their maintenance plan as technically I'm already saving the money each month to cover those costs, subject to a proper inspection which I can coincide with the next big survice due next Spring, and understanding the extent of any exclusions.

Some folk will think I'm mad others may agree it's the sensible thing to do despite the seemingly high costs. My car still feels pretty good despite the 91k miles travelled by the previous 8 owners and the 9k I've done in it, but I love driving it and intend to keep it and therefore feel the engine work will be money well spent in the long run, especially if it can be managed via modest monthly contributions.
I'll probably document the whole thing on here for information and thereby give something back to the forum. It's up to everyone what they take from it. Thumb

Slow in fast out...

1997 996 C2 manual
1998 RS 50th Anniversary VFR 800FiW
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