Welcome to 911UK
The only place for Porsche, 911uk is the definitive enthusiast and resource site for the Porsche 911.
Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so join up today for full access to the site and benefit from latest member offers.

Porsche Classifieds
Porsche Buyers Guides
Sell Your Porsche on 911uk
Create a Free Classified Advert
Search Ads
Classified Adverts FAQ
Trade Classified Information
Buyer & Seller Fraud Protection
Pre Purchase Inspection (PPI)
Porsche Car Sourcing
Porsche Cars Wanted
Model
Stock
Porsche 911
991 : 2011- 8
997 : 2004- 71
996 : 1997-2005 44
993 : 1993-1998 10
964 : 1989-1993 5
Carrera 3.2 : 1983-1989 1
Carrera SC : 1977-1983 0
930 Turbo : 1975-1989 0
Early 911 : 1964-1977 2
Porsche Other Models
Classic : 1950-1965 1
Boxster : 1997- 14
Cayman : 2005- 13
Cayenne : 2003- 10
Macan : 2014- 2
Panamera : 2009- 3
912-914-924-928-944-968 4
959 - CarreraGT - RaceCar 1
Car Parts For Sale & Wanted
Other Items For Sale & Wanted
Wheels Tyres For Sale & Wanted
Number Plates For Sale Wanted

Porsche Services
Porsche Body Shop Repair
Paint Protection & Body Wrapping
Porsche Classic Insurance
Porsche Classic Parts
Porsche Classic Restoration
Porsche Design Collection
Porsche Engine Gearbox Rebuild
Porsche Heritage & History
Porsche News
Porsche Picture Gallery
Win a New Porsche 911

Porsche Parts
Body Parts, Body Styling
Brakes, Clearance
Electrical, Exhausts
Engine Cooling, Engine Electrical
Engine Rebuild, Heating Cooling
Interior Incar, Lighting
Rubber Seals, Service Parts
Steering, Suspension
Transmission, Workshop Tools
Early 911, 911 - 930, 928 - 968
964 - 993, 996 - 997, Boxster
Cayman, Cayenne, Panamera

Porsche Model Range
911 [991] 2011-Current
Porsche 911 [991]
911 [997] 2004-Current
Porsche 911 [997]
911 [GT] GT1-GT2-GT3
Porsche 911 [GT]
911 [996] 1997-2005
Porsche 911 [996]
911 [993] 1993-1998
Porsche 911 [993]
911 [RS] RS-RSR
Porsche 911 [RS]
911 [964] 1989-1993
Porsche 911 [964]
911 3.2 1983-1989
Porsche 911 3.2 Carrera
911 SC 1977-1983
Porsche 911 SC
911 [Early] 1964-1977
Porsche 911 [Early]
Boxster & Cayman
Porsche Boxster & Cayman
Cayenne & Panamera
Porsche Cayenne & Panamera

911uk Site Partners

Post new topic   Reply to topic
Author Message
calibra1010
Newbie


Joined: 04 Oct 2014
Posts: 37



PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 11:37 pm    Post subject: Engine Problem – Misfire Cylinder 4, 5 and 6 - 997.2 (2010 Reply with quote

Hi,
I have a strange problem with my 997.2 (3.6 – 2010 model) . The car starts first time but the engine idle goes lumpy after a while on idle and at low speeds feels hesitant sometimes (noticeable). Ive scanned the car this morning using a PIWIS computer and is coming up wth a misfire on Cylinder 4, 5 and 6.

I am now scratching my head and am open to suggestions on what to do next. Could this be down to a bad O2 sensors?

Any help or advice would be much appreciated.

Last edited by calibra1010 on Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:50 am; edited 1 time in total
 
  
View user's profile Send private message
   
calibra1010
Newbie


Joined: 04 Oct 2014
Posts: 37



PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:49 am    Post subject: Re: Engine Problem – Misfire Cylinder 4, 5 and 6 - 997.2 ( Reply with quote

could this be bad O2 sensors?
 
  
View user's profile Send private message
   
FRZ 911
Hockenheim


Joined: 19 Jun 2015
Posts: 688
Location: East Africa/Northern Ireland

2007 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had similar symptoms with mine (albeit I have a 997.1) and it turned out to be the camshaft solenoids.

Could be a number of things to be honest so a trip to your local Indy/OPC for a proper diagnosis would be my recommendation.

Demort is the Porsche fault finding wizard on here so he will probably be able to give better advice.

Good luck. Thumb
_________________
997.1 C4S Meteor Grey Manual (Porsche Engine)
 
  
View user's profile Send private message
   
Jam911
Barcelona


Joined: 31 Oct 2010
Posts: 1276



PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would get the coil packs checked out too.
_________________
Current '07 997 C4S
Ex '99 2.5 Boxster
 
  
View user's profile Send private message
   
calibra1010
Newbie


Joined: 04 Oct 2014
Posts: 37



PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FRZ 911 wrote:
I had similar symptoms with mine (albeit I have a 997.1) and it turned out to be the camshaft solenoids.

Could be a number of things to be honest so a trip to your local Indy/OPC for a proper diagnosis would be my recommendation.

Demort is the Porsche fault finding wizard on here so he will probably be able to give better advice.

Good luck. Thumb


Yes Demont helped my out a couple of years back when I wiped out my cars settings playing with the PIWIS computer Surprised
 
  
View user's profile Send private message
   
Demort
Estoril


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 3502
Location: Sussex


PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would lean towards it being the Hi lift solinoid for the tappets .. normally you have another fault code saying lambda sensors swopped but not always.

Your symptoms are similar to several members that have had this fault and indeed one i diagnosed last week at work.

The valve its self is about £100 and ill be generous and say 1 hours labour to replace .. it will take far longer for a garage to prove it than to just replace it so probably a cheaper option to replace it if only to eliminate it .

If not that .. hmm .. its something that effects every cylinder on that bank so .. air leak .. have to be pretty big and im not sure where on the mainifold would cause that but possible i guess .

Fuel pressure ? again possible if its the first bank that gets the supply but you would have issues at higher rpm .. this i assume is only upto 3k rpm and should drive fine after that .

Vario Cam .. possible again but i would expect some sort of fault code or pretty bad running .

Coils and lambda sensor are also possible but ...

I think i would start with the hi lift solinoid for that bank .


The Piwis fault turned out to be not too bad though and i remember it well Smile
_________________
Mechanic

7pm - 9pm
 
  
View user's profile Send private message
   
calibra1010
Newbie


Joined: 04 Oct 2014
Posts: 37



PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Demont,

Ive had another tinker this afternoon with the PIWIS computer.

Below is the fault code results from PIWIS
http://my-star.co.uk/Photos/faultcode.JPG

Ive also read the actual values and also an O2 test (results below)

http://my-star.co.uk/Photos/o2test.JPG
http://my-star.co.uk/Photos/o2test1.JPG

Does this point towards O2 sensor or could it still be any of the others?

regards




Demort wrote:
I would lean towards it being the Hi lift solinoid for the tappets .. normally you have another fault code saying lambda sensors swopped but not always.

Your symptoms are similar to several members that have had this fault and indeed one i diagnosed last week at work.

The valve its self is about £100 and ill be generous and say 1 hours labour to replace .. it will take far longer for a garage to prove it than to just replace it so probably a cheaper option to replace it if only to eliminate it .

If not that .. hmm .. its something that effects every cylinder on that bank so .. air leak .. have to be pretty big and im not sure where on the mainifold would cause that but possible i guess .

Fuel pressure ? again possible if its the first bank that gets the supply but you would have issues at higher rpm .. this i assume is only upto 3k rpm and should drive fine after that .

Vario Cam .. possible again but i would expect some sort of fault code or pretty bad running .

Coils and lambda sensor are also possible but ...

I think i would start with the hi lift solinoid for that bank .


The Piwis fault turned out to be not too bad though and i remember it well Smile
 
  
View user's profile Send private message
   
Demort
Estoril


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 3502
Location: Sussex


PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

O2 sensor is possible but you have no fault code for that so its within limits and the high lift solinoid will cause mixture faults so its catch 22 as the readings your getting may well be the result of the solinoid .


You could leave the car running on idle for 20 mins .. then hold at 1500 rpm for a min and see if you get the lambda swopped fault code as that would prove it .

The only way im aware of to prove the solinoid is to swop them side to side .. the misfires will then switch to the other bank.


Downside of this is if the outer part of the solinoid is rusty as you wont get the seals you remove to reseal and will end up replaceing both sides .. it also takes a bit of labour to actually do this and as the valve is not that expensive then these days i just say replace it to prove or eliminate .

There are a few different things it could be .. im just going with what feels right to me from the description you have given .
_________________
Mechanic

7pm - 9pm
 
  
View user's profile Send private message
   
calibra1010
Newbie


Joined: 04 Oct 2014
Posts: 37



PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Demont,

Thanks for the info. Are the solenoids easily accessible (ie could DIY mechanic like me do it) or is it more involved.

also is this the solenoid
https://www.amazon.co.uk/ACTUATOR-TAPPET-Porsche-Boxster-Cayman/dp/B00UFTJ8QI

or this if the above link don't work

http://www.design911.co.uk/fu/prod127690/Porsche-Actuator-VVS-Tappet-9A110530803-9A110530802/





Demort wrote:
O2 sensor is possible but you have no fault code for that so its within limits and the high lift solinoid will cause mixture faults so its catch 22 as the readings your getting may well be the result of the solinoid .


You could leave the car running on idle for 20 mins .. then hold at 1500 rpm for a min and see if you get the lambda swopped fault code as that would prove it .

The only way im aware of to prove the solinoid is to swop them side to side .. the misfires will then switch to the other bank.


Downside of this is if the outer part of the solinoid is rusty as you wont get the seals you remove to reseal and will end up replaceing both sides .. it also takes a bit of labour to actually do this and as the valve is not that expensive then these days i just say replace it to prove or eliminate .

There are a few different things it could be .. im just going with what feels right to me from the description you have given .
 
  
View user's profile Send private message
   
Demort
Estoril


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 3502
Location: Sussex


PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not your car but it gives you some info on replaceing it ..

http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/Porsche-996-Turbo/09-ENGINE-Valve_Lift_Solenoid_Replacement/09-ENGINE-Valve_Lift_Solenoid_Replacement.htm

You dont remove the items listed .. just jack it up and do from underneath .


Basically its the one in the middle of the head .

Difficult parts of the job .. access but thats not too bad .

You have to pull it hard to remove or do what i do which is move the seal back a bit then lever it out on the seal with a screwdriver.

Make sure the new one pushes fully home .. its almost a click as it seats as if it doesnt it will cause issues .

Also bear in mine that this is just my opinion .. with out the lambda code then i cant say for sure this is the fault .. its just my hunch so a garage looking at the car is Always going to be better than me giveing advise Smile


Link looks like the vario cam solinoid .. you want the Hi lift or tappet solinoid .

EDIT

Actually the gen 2 looks different from the gen 1 solinoid as per this link with part number .

http://www.deroure.com/partinfo.asp?MAK=3&MDL=27&TBL=2987&SMA=0&SMO=0&ST=&SC=0&PBID=102232
_________________
Mechanic

7pm - 9pm
 
  
View user's profile Send private message
   
calibra1010
Newbie


Joined: 04 Oct 2014
Posts: 37



PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank Demont,

Its worth a punt and I may have a go. I will have a look underneath my car.
On the 997.2 do heat shields or anything else need removing as I
i think the make or break is access and if anything needs removing as Cats and mufflers are nearby and i know space is tight. I have ramps so I can get the car up and have a look underneath.

Demort wrote:
Not your car but it gives you some info on replaceing it ..

http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/Porsche-996-Turbo/09-ENGINE-Valve_Lift_Solenoid_Replacement/09-ENGINE-Valve_Lift_Solenoid_Replacement.htm

You dont remove the items listed .. just jack it up and do from underneath .


Basically its the one in the middle of the head .

Difficult parts of the job .. access but thats not too bad .

You have to pull it hard to remove or do what i do which is move the seal back a bit then lever it out on the seal with a screwdriver.

Make sure the new one pushes fully home .. its almost a click as it seats as if it doesnt it will cause issues .

Also bear in mine that this is just my opinion .. with out the lambda code then i cant say for sure this is the fault .. its just my hunch so a garage looking at the car is Always going to be better than me giveing advise Smile


Link looks like the vario cam solinoid .. you want the Hi lift or tappet solinoid .

EDIT

Actually the gen 2 looks different from the gen 1 solinoid as per this link with part number .

http://www.deroure.com/partinfo.asp?MAK=3&MDL=27&TBL=2987&SMA=0&SMO=0&ST=&SC=0&PBID=102232
 
  
View user's profile Send private message
   
Demort
Estoril


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 3502
Location: Sussex


PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ive not yet actually done a gen 2 .. done gen 1 , 996 and 991 so far so im thinking !

The exhaust is different but as the solinoid is in the center of the head then the exhaust shouldn,t be a problem , heat shield off for the spark plugs then its x2 T30 i expect ( early cars are 4mm allen ) on the solinoid bracket , either pull the solinoid or move back the metal seal and use that as a lever point to extract it .. new one just pushes in .

Jack it up and have a look .. youll soon see if your happy to continue Smile
_________________
Mechanic

7pm - 9pm
 
  
View user's profile Send private message
   
calibra1010
Newbie


Joined: 04 Oct 2014
Posts: 37



PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

Had a look and car needs the backboxes removing to access the area (same procedure as replacing spark plugs). I might leave it to my local Indi to do the work as it is outside of my skill set and abilities. Once again thank you demort for the advice


Demort wrote:
Ive not yet actually done a gen 2 .. done gen 1 , 996 and 991 so far so im thinking !

The exhaust is different but as the solinoid is in the center of the head then the exhaust shouldn,t be a problem , heat shield off for the spark plugs then its x2 T30 i expect ( early cars are 4mm allen ) on the solinoid bracket , either pull the solinoid or move back the metal seal and use that as a lever point to extract it .. new one just pushes in .

Jack it up and have a look .. youll soon see if your happy to continue Smile
 
  
View user's profile Send private message
   
Matt Seabrook
Monza


Joined: 27 Apr 2014
Posts: 161
Location: Cornwall


PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Demort wrote:

The only way im aware of to prove the solinoid is to swop them side to side .. the misfires will then switch to the other bank.


You can prove solinoids are moving at least electrically. You will need a scope and an amps clamp plus a code reader to carry out an actuator test to do it though. I proved a mates variable cam actuator was pig on his 996 Turbo about a year ago using this method. Unfortunately the equipment is beyond most DIYers
_________________
997.2 Turbo PDK
 
  
View user's profile Send private message
   
Tin man
Newbie


Joined: 03 Aug 2014
Posts: 8



PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just had the same problem, turned out to be the solenoid.
 
  
View user's profile Send private message
   
calibra1010
Newbie


Joined: 04 Oct 2014
Posts: 37



PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Update.. I rang my local Porsche specialist (GCR Central) based in Leicester this morning they confirmed it was an hours labour which tied into to what demont said and also other DIY articles on forums. I then got a call back this afternoon saying the gen2 was more complicated then the gen1 and it would be 3 hours per side (6 hours labour £500+ in just labour + parts) total to fit two solenoids which is ridiculous. I tried to explain that the official Porsche book time to change the spark plugs (to gain acesss to the same area) is a lot less then 6 hours but GCR just didn't get the point. I must say disappointed with local independent Porsche specialist GCR Central.

For comparison I rang Porsche Centre Nottingham asked the cost to change the spark plugs for which they quoted £320 (supplied and fitted). When I asked them how much extra in labour to fit the same solenoids they said no extra in labour I just pay for the parts as they would have acesss to the area when changing the spark plugs. Just goes to show to shop around as in this case Porsche dealership is £200 cheaper then the specialist....

Lesson learned
 
  
View user's profile Send private message
   
silvermilnec
Suzuka


Joined: 20 Feb 2012
Posts: 1030
Location: Leeds West Yorkshire


PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

calibra1010 wrote:
Update.. I rang my local Porsche specialist (GCR Central) based in Leicester this morning they confirmed it was an hours labour which tied into to what demont said and also other DIY articles on forums. I then got a call back this afternoon saying the gen2 was more complicated then the gen1 and it would be 3 hours per side (6 hours labour £500+ in just labour + parts) total to fit two solenoids which is ridiculous. I tried to explain that the official Porsche book time to change the spark plugs (to gain acesss to the same area) is a lot less then 6 hours but GCR just didn't get the point. I must say disappointed with local independent Porsche specialist GCR Central.

For comparison I rang Porsche Centre Nottingham asked the cost to change the spark plugs for which they quoted £320 (supplied and fitted). When I asked them how much extra in labour to fit the same solenoids they said no extra in labour I just pay for the parts as they would have acesss to the area when changing the spark plugs. Just goes to show to shop around as in this case Porsche dealership is £200 cheaper then the specialist....

Lesson learned

I know a few people from Leeds use notts opc because of good customer service!!👍
_________________
1996 944
1998 968
2000 996 C2
2006 997 4S
2009 997 1.5 Turbo basalt black on black
 
  
View user's profile Send private message
   
calibra1010
Newbie


Joined: 04 Oct 2014
Posts: 37



PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

silvermilnec wrote:
calibra1010 wrote:
Update.. I rang my local Porsche specialist (GCR Central) based in Leicester this morning they confirmed it was an hours labour which tied into to what demont said and also other DIY articles on forums. I then got a call back this afternoon saying the gen2 was more complicated then the gen1 and it would be 3 hours per side (6 hours labour £500+ in just labour + parts) total to fit two solenoids which is ridiculous. I tried to explain that the official Porsche book time to change the spark plugs (to gain acesss to the same area) is a lot less then 6 hours but GCR just didn't get the point. I must say disappointed with local independent Porsche specialist GCR Central.

For comparison I rang Porsche Centre Nottingham asked the cost to change the spark plugs for which they quoted £320 (supplied and fitted). When I asked them how much extra in labour to fit the same solenoids they said no extra in labour I just pay for the parts as they would have acesss to the area when changing the spark plugs. Just goes to show to shop around as in this case Porsche dealership is £200 cheaper then the specialist....

Lesson learned

I know a few people from Leeds use notts opc because of good customer service!!👍


I avoided OPC Leicester as they are probably the worst garage around. I've had 3 major bad experiences with them on my 911 and Cayenne where car has come back with more faults then when it went. Basics such as coding being done incorrect (coded my cayenne turbo as a manual which brought a error message and blamed the lpg conversion), bricking my PCM when it went for a map update, forgetting to reconnect sensor cables etc after work etc
 
  
View user's profile Send private message
   
Demort
Estoril


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 3502
Location: Sussex


PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to admit id forgotten how close the exhaust is on a gen 2 .. in my excuse ive been on the go for 14 hours when i post here Razz

Its 1.5 hours to change the plugs so that sort of time to change the solinoid .. you only need to do the bank that the misfires are on .

You may well need to pay for an exhaust clamp as well .. its common that we cut them off to remove the silencer .

Best if i dont comment on the times you have been given .. bad form there .

Please point out to the garage the reason you want it done though , an extra half hours labour for them to be happy that this is likely to be the fault is worth it .

I cant see the car after all Smile
_________________
Mechanic

7pm - 9pm
 
  
View user's profile Send private message
   
calibra1010
Newbie


Joined: 04 Oct 2014
Posts: 37



PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Demont, is the the exhaust clamp between the cat and silencer (see below link)

http://www.design911.co.uk/fu/prod13519/Exhaust-Sleeve-Catalytic-Converter-to-Silencer-Porsche-997-Carrera-36L---38L-MKII/


Demort wrote:
I have to admit id forgotten how close the exhaust is on a gen 2 .. in my excuse ive been on the go for 14 hours when i post here Razz

Its 1.5 hours to change the plugs so that sort of time to change the solinoid .. you only need to do the bank that the misfires are on .

You may well need to pay for an exhaust clamp as well .. its common that we cut them off to remove the silencer .

Best if i dont comment on the times you have been given .. bad form there .

Please point out to the garage the reason you want it done though , an extra half hours labour for them to be happy that this is likely to be the fault is worth it .

I cant see the car after all Smile
 
  
View user's profile Send private message
   
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic   All times are GMT - 12 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You can attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
You cannot post calendar events in this forum