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jboy
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Joined: 30 May 2017
Posts: 27



PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is it the case that having any work done could actually cause more problems than it solves or is that never going to be the case so the worst case scenario is that you have spent money you perhaps didn't need to rather than you have hastened the demise of your car? I'm assuming the IMS replacement is a recognised one...
 
  
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kas750
Paul Ricard


Joined: 31 Mar 2013
Posts: 3313
Location: lancashire

2006 Porsche 911

PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jboy wrote:
Is it the case that having any work done could actually cause more problems than it solves or is that never going to be the case so the worst case scenario is that you have spent money you perhaps didn't need to rather than you have hastened the demise of your car? I'm assuming the IMS replacement is a recognised one...

Changing the IMS bearing is a risky business and there is one poster on here that had a catastrophic failure after a precautionary IMS change.
 
  
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alex yates
Shanghai
Shanghai


Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 10987
Location: Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not only is there high risk of not installing the bearing correctly in the shaft (I'm a Toolmaker and have witnessed many kack-handed bearings pressed in at an angle by folk who don't know what they're doing), but also the chance of breaking chain guides and chains jumping a tooth and throwing the cam timing out.

Replacing an ims bearing in situ is not only unprofessional but usually executed by outfits who harp on that they only carry out work to Porche's standard operating procedures. Porsche will never ever change a bearing in situ. These shysters who yank bearings are full of no.2s and only promote swapping bearings to fleece money from weak-minded 911 owners .
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jboy
Newbie


Joined: 30 May 2017
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 10:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok thanks - that is interesting. My c2 is on 59k and probably due a new clutch in the next 12 months so the IMS is something I am considering understandably......
 
  
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alex yates
Shanghai
Shanghai


Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 10987
Location: Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have it checked out and have outer seal removed. If there's a problem, get on here for advice.
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Simon W
Suzuka


Joined: 21 Jun 2003
Posts: 1241
Location: North London

1997 Porsche 993 Carrera 2S

PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is what I love about this forum....!
An astounding breadth of knowledge and plenty of healthy debate!
Thank you to all who've contributed - given me a lot to think about!

Suddenly, I'm not so bothered about the IMS, but have turned my anxiety to the bore scoring!
Any simple tell tale signs to look for...?

On the 993's, they were so relatively simple to examine that I could tell very quickly whether a car was a good'un or not. With the 996's, it seems much more tricky, with the sense (probably wrongly) that there could be this hidden time bomb hidden deep inside.....

...is it really such a roll of the dice to buy a 95k motor...? I wouldn't think twice about it on the 993 - but I'm sensing potential big bills due to mileage on the 996. Is that unjustified?
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Simon W
Suzuka


Joined: 21 Jun 2003
Posts: 1241
Location: North London

1997 Porsche 993 Carrera 2S

PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

...and by the way - it's this one....
I'm going to have a look later today.
Thoughts / comments welcome...

https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/porsche/911-carrera-996/porsche-911-996-carrera-4s-2003/7562154
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segart
Monza


Joined: 28 Jan 2015
Posts: 221
Location: Jersey - Britains South Sea Isle


PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As Clint Eastwood might have said, 'the question is, do you feel lucky'? If you are the type who would rather not walk under a ladder, or get involved in breaking a mirror, then all sorts of arguably more sensible sports cars are out there. On the other hand, life is short and we are a long time dead!
Rick
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T8
General
General


Joined: 29 Jun 2010
Posts: 12809
Location: Kent


PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the current market that seems like a really good car for the money.

Sadly buying any 996 Carrera is a bit of a lottery but look at how much car you're getting for under £20k compared to what a similar mileage/spec 993 would cost you.

If the car passes every check you can realistically put it through I'd go for it and enjoy driving it. IF in the future the worst happened (a £10k bill for an engine rebuild) it would still represent great value-for-money motoring and bizarrely the car would probably be more desirable to any future buyer.
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alex yates
Shanghai
Shanghai


Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 10987
Location: Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

They're a fantastic and reliable motor and the best value for money sports car on the market. If your gonna buy one, condition is priority over age and mileage. If it's got a decent full history, looks right and the bores aren't scored, then you're fine.

A quick 15 minute search session on this website soon highlights that there's more gen 1 997s with bore-scoring and ims bearing failures than 996s. I've visited Hartech on a couple of occasions and seeing the amount of 997s racked up for engine rebuilds soon highlights the fact of how more robust the 996 is. It put me off wanting a gen 1 997.

On a slightly other note, a gen 1 997 with Hartech rebuild can be bagged (if you're lucky) for 996 C4S money.
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Griffter
Silverstone


Joined: 22 May 2016
Posts: 124



PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As stated above, there is a risk in replacing the bearing in situ of:

(A) the bearing not being located properly. Microns out on installation could cause premature failure in due course
(B) causing damage to other components when forces are exerted on them to remove/install the bearing, in directions and in ways they are not designed to withstand

I debated long and hard after buying my 996, and decided on balance to leave well enough alone. The risk of replacing a good bearing seems to outweigh any benefits. Of course if you know your existing bearing is knackered it's a different proposition.

As an aside I though the LN bearing was lived at 4 years/40k miles, so that's all they're guaranteeing it's good for. Strictly it becomes a service item.

Also as an aside, I agree the dual row bearings have been known to fail, but I thought they were obsolete after 98?
 
  
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alex yates
Shanghai
Shanghai


Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 10987
Location: Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dual row became obsolete after the 3.4 gen ended, 3.6 were single row circa. 2001.
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askgeez
Suzuka


Joined: 05 Apr 2015
Posts: 1198
Location: London/ Essex


PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That looks like a great example Thumb

Decent wedge of history would give me some comfort that's it's been looked after. Clutch done at a respected Indy... Who potentially would have felt IMS?

£18k for a manual 4s looks good value...not going down much from there.

My mate bought same model on an 05 plate in April 2015. Absolutely mint ... 25k miles.

Few months into ownership...IMS let go... £8k bill.frustrated

So mileage and condition is no guarantee . But I agree with Terry, drive and enjoy

Grin
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alex yates
Shanghai
Shanghai


Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 10987
Location: Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just looked at that C4S - looks great to me and a well written ad - says a lot about the seller Thumb

Tell tail signs for bore scoring (nearly always rh block) are left sooty tail pipe and rattle from engine. Try doing some youtube searches on bore scoring for examples.

Do not agree to purchase without having a bore scope. If you've half an idea of what to look for in a car and it looks right, personally I wouldn't bother with a ppi.

Bore scope, bore scope, bore scope.
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alex yates
Shanghai
Shanghai


Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 10987
Location: Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Peter Morgan sums it up here:

a gen 1 3.8 997, but you get the jist. Make sure you read the description.


Open Youtube Page

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alex yates
Shanghai
Shanghai


Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 10987
Location: Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just having a browse of the MOT history on that C4S (which all looks fine). There's some absolute muppets about who aren't even fit to own a car. Failed it's MOT back in 2009 due to this:

Nearside Rear Tyre(s) incorrect because different size tyres are fitted on the same axle. (4.1.A.1a)

Duh
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paul987
Albert Park


Joined: 27 Feb 2015
Posts: 1519
Location: east mids


PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm with Alex on this one.. any failures I've heard of recently have been on engines that's had the IMS replaced!
Most of factory IMS that did let go in the past (including mine) happened at low mileage...
Which is why my money would always go on well used, well maintained 996 over a low mileage garage Queen.
For piece of mind the current consensus is to remove the outer dust shield at the next clutch change.. as recommended by Hartech.

As for some Indy's finding bits of metal in oil filters thus requiring a IMS change... I personally would want to see the IMS in situe first before I made any decision.... Imho. It's a great way for some less than honest indy's to play on people's fears and make some extra cash Thumb
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The Lone Ranger
Newbie


Joined: 03 Feb 2017
Posts: 25



PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 1:47 pm    Post subject: IMS Reply with quote

Mmm. I have never heard that it is dangerous to change the ims. Never heard of engine failure caused by changing ims, but others allegedly say that they know of it. People are mentioning some Porsche indys are not doing a good job, WHO? We would all like to know who to avoid.
 
  
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alex yates
Shanghai
Shanghai


Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 10987
Location: Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All Indys that change ims bearings in situ, it's bad practice and it isn't possible to press a bearing in perfectly as the shaft is unsupported at that end and puts strain on chain guides when attempting to press it in.
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segart
Monza


Joined: 28 Jan 2015
Posts: 221
Location: Jersey - Britains South Sea Isle


PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That clip on the bore scored 997 is absolutely horrendous. The c4s at 18000 pounds looks like good value. I notice the car covered 12000 miles in three months in 2015. That could be a record! Service history looks ok but the duff tyre mot failure points to a less than fastidious owner.
Rick
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