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Pazuzu
Monza


Joined: 29 Aug 2009
Posts: 194
Location: Near Ashford, Kent


PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 3:41 pm    Post subject: 997 - Corroded rear coolant pipes Reply with quote

Hi all,

Had my new (to me) 997 in for a major service today and they identified corroded rear coolant pipes.

They are corroded at the join, pretty much like in the photo attached. The photo is from the web - stupidly I didn't take any photos of my ones when they showed me!

Apparently you have to drop the engine to replace this pair of pipes which is a pain! Also, my engine mounts are leaking so these will have to be replaced if we drop the engine.

My question is basically, are they all like this or is this a sign of imminent failure? It was noted that the joins are bone dry - no leaks.

Other than that I have a weeping brake tandem pump, a n/s diff seal leaking and a o/s/r drive shaft outer joint leaking.

Waiting on the estimate for all the repairs now so taking all bets on the £££s Smile

Cheers,

Phil
 



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Phil 997
Fuji


Joined: 05 Dec 2015
Posts: 9815
Location: Bournemouth,Dorset

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phil, I had the same when my A/c pipes corroded just at the point where it goes over the rear axle , and yes an engine drop Surprised
this is the path I followed

OPC quote £2400 plus vat to do the leaking one Sad
local Porsche indy £1400 to do the leaking one plus Vat Surprised

mobile fully trained Porsche tech £1000 no vat as he's not vat registered. to replace both the leaking one and the other one as its silly not to while in there.D Very Happy

the pipes are only £100 odd quid

re the tandem pump and your cars a gen1- opc £800plus vat
Audodoc currently £299 but they do often have promos and I paid £275 for mine with free shipping, for the same part but stamped Pierberg who make them for porsche
dont worry the link doesnt say for the 997.1 it is the correct part many have brought it from here.

https://www.autodoc.co.uk/pierburg/7890260

the mobile tech also fitted this for me at a fraction of the opc or indy.

If you wanted to go that route he would travel to you for a job like that as its worth his time and fuel for a decent size job. let me know if you want his details.

hope that info helps
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Demort
Paul Ricard


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 3438
Location: Sussex


PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Engine mounts leaking .. they have totally had it but no need to drop the engine to replace them .

Tandem pump leaking .. it needs doing now before it totally lets go .

Diff seals .. yes they will need doing but i doubt its a major leak so can be left for a while ( lets face it they haven,t Just started leaking ).

Coolant pipe and really i need a picture to judge as depending on how bad it is will depend on wether it needs doing now or can be buryed in waxoil and left for a year or 2 .

Indy or Phil's guy for things like this .
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Phil 997
Fuji


Joined: 05 Dec 2015
Posts: 9815
Location: Bournemouth,Dorset

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Demort wrote:
Engine mounts leaking .. they have totally had it but no need to drop the engine to replace them .

Tandem pump leaking .. it needs doing now before it totally lets go .

Diff seals .. yes they will need doing but i doubt its a major leak so can be left for a while ( lets face it they haven,t Just started leaking ).

Coolant pipe and really i need a picture to judge as depending on how bad it is will depend on wether it needs doing now or can be buryed in waxoil and left for a year or 2 .

Indy or Phil's guy for things like this .


Great advise as always Iain worship hopefully Phil will not now have heart failure when he sees the opc quote lol .
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Demort
Paul Ricard


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 3438
Location: Sussex


PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Floor

trust me .. these days " I " have heart failure at the OPC,s quotes !

Aww btw Phil .. my avatar , i changed it .. a bit over the top or acceptable ? .. i wasnt sure if haveing Mechanic was a good idear or not as it seems a bit pretentious .
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Jam911
Barcelona


Joined: 31 Oct 2010
Posts: 1272



PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FYI I had a coolant leak and when investigated it was from a rear pipe and others were weeping.

It is a known 997 design fault I am afraid.

I thought it was worth changing all the pipes leaking or not as the engine had to come out.

Sorry to tell you it is the most expensive repair I have had to date (not counting the full OPC engine rebuild under warranty) at £3K
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cheshire911
Paul Ricard


Joined: 10 Jun 2012
Posts: 3441



PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A 997 gen 1 should qualify for the OPC Modern Classics rate for labour (£90/hr inc VAT which is £75+VAT). The parts all will be supplied by OPC as I'm pretty sure they are unlikely to be available from Euro Car Parts.

OPC quote inclusive of VAT. I have never been quoted any prices by OPC exclusive of VAT. I have never been quoted VAT inclusive prices by any Indy.
So please enquire with OPC and Indy recognising this difference and parts supply prices. The OPC work will carry a two-year no-quibble warranty.

No experience of mobile mechanics, so cant comment.

IF the engine has to come out, check rear brake pipes if they need doing. Also clutch (if manual) and consider a major service with spark plugs if its due shortly.

Let us know how you get on. Good luck.
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Phil 997
Fuji


Joined: 05 Dec 2015
Posts: 9815
Location: Bournemouth,Dorset

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Demort wrote:
Floor

trust me .. these days " I " have heart failure at the OPC,s quotes !

Aww btw Phil .. my avatar , i changed it .. a bit over the top or acceptable ? .. i wasnt sure if haveing Mechanic was a good idear or not as it seems a bit pretentious .


Iain, I think the avatar is great mate , nothing pretentious at all about it , you are a mechanic and as there is no TOPGUN Mechanic avatar that will do the job nicely. Grin Thumb I like it .I think we should all have one that says something about us all, mine would need to be a fat bloke reading a technical handbook while someone else was under the car Floor
guess there are only so many versions of beards and sandals as Avatars and the always useful Avatar of a head with a penis attached to the forehead Floor with gone to pistonheads written under it.
then a few versions of bloke holding a glasses guide open on the aircooled page Floor Grin Thumb
oh yes and I can think of one with just a pic of a bag with 25 written on it lol
but it would be funny to see some of them Grin Thumb
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jpsh120
Montreal


Joined: 30 Aug 2015
Posts: 590
Location: Somerset


PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OP - you say the car is new to you. How long have you had it and did you buy it from a garage/dealer? You may be able to get the seller to pay for the repair work depending on how long you've had the car.
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Pazuzu
Monza


Joined: 29 Aug 2009
Posts: 194
Location: Near Ashford, Kent


PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for all the advice guys, much appreciated.

The car was a private purchase but is generally in very good nick - I've no problem with this as I had a bork fund in mind when I bought it.

The pipes are currently bone dry - I will try to get a picture of my actual ones and post it on here.

The engine mounts would need to be changed if the motor is pulled but it would be silly not to I suppose.

Apologies for any confusion but the service was actually at an Indy over in Sussex rather than an OPC. I did consider OPC but this one actually had an £11k engine rebuild at this Indy 2 years/10k miles ago so I thought it would be good to keep it with them.

They were really good (not sure I can name them?) and had all the undertrays/wheels of and took time to show me all around under the car and explain the problems.

Once I've got the estimate I'll post it up on here and we'll see what how my options look Thumb

Thanks,

Phil
 
  
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Pazuzu
Monza


Joined: 29 Aug 2009
Posts: 194
Location: Near Ashford, Kent


PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

£2.5k is the estimate.

Seems a little heavy in places.

Tandem pump alone is £780!

Pair of engine mounts £360 and that is with engine already removed.

7 hours to drop and refit engine. £250 for pipes and 1L coolant.

Diff seal and CV boot - £250.

Phil
 
  
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cheshire911
Paul Ricard


Joined: 10 Jun 2012
Posts: 3441



PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The key detail needed is labour rate per hour inc VAT for Modern Classics at OPC. I'd be surprised if Indy labour rate is less than the Modern Classics labour rate at OPC. I assume the OPC offers this lower rate for a 997 gen 1.

Parts - most likely an Indy will advise OPC supplied parts - possibly some are not available as after-market via Euro Car Parts. So no saving there in parts (or little).

Moat of your bill is labour and that's where an impressionable saving can be made - if the Indy charges £50/hr + VAT that's £25/hr saving over the modern classics rate at OPC. For that 7 hrs labour to drop re-fit engine its sizeable saving - if you can find an Indy to charge £50/hr + VAT in that part of the world.
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seeforez
Barcelona


Joined: 10 Jan 2016
Posts: 1476
Location: up norf


PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Demort wrote:
Floor

trust me .. these days " I " have heart failure at the OPC,s quotes !

Aww btw Phil .. my avatar , i changed it .. a bit over the top or acceptable ? .. i wasnt sure if haveing Mechanic was a good idear or not as it seems a bit pretentious .


i think the part time pirate full time mechanic image suits you just fine Iain Floor
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Phil 997
Fuji


Joined: 05 Dec 2015
Posts: 9815
Location: Bournemouth,Dorset

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am with Cheshire on the maths,

my rough take on it

7/8hrs labour £50ph tech £400ish
autodoc tandem £299 free delivery
engine mounts £360 OE but might get cheaper
pipes and coolant £250 OE but might get cheaper
dif seal and boot £250 OE but might get cheaper

so £1559 no vat saving £1000
but even if you used an indy at £50ph and paid vat on the labour your still £850/900 better off.

These are only estimates but are going to be in the ball park and you really should be able to end up saving between £500 and £1000 on that estimate.
keep us posted on progress Thumb
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Last edited by Phil 997 on Thu Jul 27, 2017 6:42 pm; edited 1 time in total
 
  
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Demort
Paul Ricard


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 3438
Location: Sussex


PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

seeforez wrote:
Demort wrote:
Floor

trust me .. these days " I " have heart failure at the OPC,s quotes !

Aww btw Phil .. my avatar , i changed it .. a bit over the top or acceptable ? .. i wasnt sure if haveing Mechanic was a good idear or not as it seems a bit pretentious .


i think the part time pirate full time mechanic image suits you just fine Iain Floor


Ha Har me heartys thats no lie.

All hands on deck and ring that bell
I,ll be taking your car .. your wallet as well
To the OPC you should have run
Cause at the indy,s then youll have no fun
For a car to be fixed on the straight and narrow
Then the OPC,s wont cleave your marrow.

Tis the indys life for me !
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Phil 997
Fuji


Joined: 05 Dec 2015
Posts: 9815
Location: Bournemouth,Dorset

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Demort wrote:
seeforez wrote:
Demort wrote:
Floor

trust me .. these days " I " have heart failure at the OPC,s quotes !

Aww btw Phil .. my avatar , i changed it .. a bit over the top or acceptable ? .. i wasnt sure if haveing Mechanic was a good idear or not as it seems a bit pretentious .


i think the part time pirate full time mechanic image suits you just fine Iain Floor


Ha Har me heartys thats no lie.

All hands on deck and ring that bell
I,ll be taking your car .. your wallet as well
To the OPC you should have run
Cause at the indy,s then youll have no fun
For a car to be fixed on the straight and narrow
Then the OPC,s wont cleave your marrow.

Tis the indys life for me !


Blimey a technician and a poet . Grin Grin very good ditty Iain or was it a shanty Thumb
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Demort
Paul Ricard


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 3438
Location: Sussex


PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A little shanty lol .

Love the avatar comments .. had me grinning ear to ear young man .

Anyways .. kinda a thread hijack so id better stop now Smile
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cheshire911
Paul Ricard


Joined: 10 Jun 2012
Posts: 3441



PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phil997: Up this part of Cheshire and even across the border into West Yorkshire, the indys charge the same labour rate as OPC Modern Classics rate of £75/hr + VAT = £90/hr. So a careful assessment is beneficial before deciding who to give the job to - especially if parts are to be OE supplied by OPC. Some may charge £70/hr + VAT making negligible saving.

Whether anybody who is an Indy Porsche Specialist will charge £50/hr + VAT down South is likely to be challenging to find (in my view).

With the maths assessment the choice is down to each individual.
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Phil 997
Fuji


Joined: 05 Dec 2015
Posts: 9815
Location: Bournemouth,Dorset

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cheshire911 wrote:
Phil997: Up this part of Cheshire and even across the border into West Yorkshire, the indys charge the same labour rate as OPC Modern Classics rate of £75/hr + VAT = £90/hr. So a careful assessment is beneficial before deciding who to give the job to - especially if parts are to be OE supplied by OPC. Some may charge £70/hr + VAT making negligible saving.

Whether anybody who is an Indy Porsche Specialist will charge £50/hr + VAT down South is likely to be challenging to find (in my view).

With the maths assessment the choice is down to each individual.


Yes I agree and most indy's down here are pretty much the same price wise which is why I use the Fully time served at Bournemouth OPC mobile tech as he can be hundred of pounds cheaper on the heavy labour jobs , his advantage of course is if a job does not need full workshop facilities he doesnt have those high costs to carry and add to the bill we all pay. So wins all round , he can access a workshop if a job requires that again the advantage is he is only paying a day rate for the use of those facilities.
but everyone wants something a bit different with any work carried out so what suits one may not suit another, but its always good to be armed with all the options and that's where this Forum is so useful because you ask a question and get a number of different options from members allowing you the choice to suit what you need personally.
Some want a job with a good price point , others are happier to pay more and get coffee and mags to read and others must have an OPC do the work immaterial of the premium on the cost. as you say we all are very different.
The important thing is that hopefully armed with views from members the OP wont get ripped off whatever he decides to do. Thumb Thumb
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Pazuzu
Monza


Joined: 29 Aug 2009
Posts: 194
Location: Near Ashford, Kent


PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 5:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks chaps, labour rate in quote is £90/hour as guessed previously.

I've asked Phil's guy and a couple of others for quotes so we'll see who's best on the cost/convenience front.

Phil
 
  
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