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A11ykf
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Joined: 19 Jul 2016
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 12:31 pm    Post subject: Electrical Help - Exhaust Valves Reply with quote

I purchased a set of valvetronic mufflers second hand recently. The seller had left the control kit in his car when he sold it so I attempted to get a new one from the original exhaust supplier. The company supplying the kit sent me a vacuum operated control kit but the valves are electronically operated so that is no use and they seem to be having some issues now establishing if we can get an electronic control kit for them. I am not sure why not and I am currently still waiting for an answer.
So with absolutely no knowledge of electrical stuff my question is how difficult and what sort of parts would someone who did know what they were doing with electrics need to sort this?
If I bought the PSE switch for the centre console then what else would I need to make that operate the solenoids on the mufflers to open and close?
 
  
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Phil 997
Shanghai
Shanghai


Joined: 05 Dec 2015
Posts: 10064
Location: Bournemouth,Dorset

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can I ask who the exhaust supplier is because if its top gear then a drive to bridport HQ and they could swap out the bits that were connected to the old fob and replace and it wouldnt be silly money to do that.

What area are you if your anywhere near bournemouth you welcome to come round and try the 2 key fobs I have here spare and some other bits for a valve set up not sure what I have but its part of the valve set up with the 2 fobs . Thumb
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Demort
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Joined: 21 Mar 2015
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I googled valvetronic muffler and the images i saw where all vacuum operated valves .. is this definetly an electric valve ?

Any links ?

As if its a vacuum system the the standard vacuum valves can be wired to an on off switch .
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A11ykf
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phil 997 wrote:
Can I ask who the exhaust supplier is because if its top gear then a drive to bridport HQ and they could swap out the bits that were connected to the old fob and replace and it wouldnt be silly money to do that.

What area are you if your anywhere near bournemouth you welcome to come round and try the 2 key fobs I have here spare and some other bits for a valve set up not sure what I have but its part of the valve set up with the 2 fobs . Thumb


The exhaust is from topgear and unfortunately I am in the Scottish Highlands. The issue is on this exhaust the valves are opened electronically with the solenoids on the valves it looks like. They said it was a one off for some reason. The ones they normally supply use vacuum operated valves. I am trying to understand how the solenoids work? I was thinking maybe you just send power to them and they open and remove it and they close or am I wrong in thinking that?
 
  
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A11ykf
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Joined: 19 Jul 2016
Posts: 29



PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Demort wrote:
I googled valvetronic muffler and the images i saw where all vacuum operated valves .. is this definetly an electric valve ?

Any links ?

As if its a vacuum system the the standard vacuum valves can be wired to an on off switch .


No links unfortunately as they are saying it was a one off system. I think Alex at topgear may be looking to make a control kit for it but in case he can't I was trying to find another solution. I will swing by the garage tomorrow and get a couple pics of the valves.
 
  
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Phil 997
Shanghai
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Joined: 05 Dec 2015
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Location: Bournemouth,Dorset

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well on a positive its a top gear system, So you can be 100% sure Alex and the team will go the extra mile for a resolution , dont forget to let him know your a forum member as they regard this forum and its members highly.
Interesting you say it was a one off as I had heard about this electronic valve set up once before on here and had though it was a system they were switching over to but clearly it was a prototype or custom job or something.
Keep us posted on progress, a PM to Ducatirob will give you the info on hardwiring it to the PSE panel switch as he has done that mod already .
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Demort
Estoril


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

picts would help as an electric valve is new to me .. need to know how many wiring pins are on the valve for the exhaust .. if 2 then its a simple on off .. if three then theres a feed back and it regulates the degree of opening .
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DucatiRob
Suzuka


Joined: 22 Jul 2015
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Location: Milton Keynes

2006 Porsche 997 Carrera 2S

PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very interesting that they are not vacuum operated, it would be great to see a pic of the valve itself! If not vacuum then they must be motor controlled, all you need to know is if the motors are still attached to the valves, can't think why they wouldn't be!

The standard top gear valvetronic controller should do the job, you just wouldn't need the vacuum solenoid, and depending on wherther there is any electronics built into the motors a simple motor controller in its place!

An alternative to the top gear remote operation is replacing the switch unit in the console with a PSE type and linking up to a latching relay, I can send a link to my thread if interested as this is what I have done!
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A11ykf
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DucatiRob wrote:
Very interesting that they are not vacuum operated, it would be great to see a pic of the valve itself! If not vacuum then they must be motor controlled, all you need to know is if the motors are still attached to the valves, can't think why they wouldn't be!

The standard top gear valvetronic controller should do the job, you just wouldn't need the vacuum solenoid, and depending on wherther there is any electronics built into the motors a simple motor controller in its place!

An alternative to the top gear remote operation is replacing the switch unit in the console with a PSE type and linking up to a latching relay, I can send a link to my thread if interested as this is what I have done!


Rob you might be my savior here .
The valves look like this




I tried to get the guy in the garage to get a photo of the connections before he put the bumper back on but photography was not his strong point. He informed me there are 4 pins in the socket.

These valves are controlled with a controller kit like this

https://www.topgear.co.uk/bmw-style-electronic-valve-kit-with-controller-fobs-and-2-5-inch-63mm-valve?search=valve%20kit

Now that is for a single exhaust but the same idea although a double one might be more expensive and I really can't fork out that money for a controller.
I see from that controller that it can be opened or closed via the remote or also via the accelerator. I don't care about it working with the accelerator I would just like simple open or closed as you would get with the vacuum system but maybe I am off the mark in thinking it would be fairly simple for a man with some electrical knowledge to make that happen?
 
  
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Phil 997
Shanghai
Shanghai


Joined: 05 Dec 2015
Posts: 10064
Location: Bournemouth,Dorset

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DucatiRob wrote:
Very interesting that they are not vacuum operated, it would be great to see a pic of the valve itself! If not vacuum then they must be motor controlled, all you need to know is if the motors are still attached to the valves, can't think why they wouldn't be!

The standard top gear valvetronic controller should do the job, you just wouldn't need the vacuum solenoid, and depending on wherther there is any electronics built into the motors a simple motor controller in its place!

An alternative to the top gear remote operation is replacing the switch unit in the console with a PSE type and linking up to a latching relay, I can send a link to my thread if interested as this is what I have done!


Ah Rob, I knew you would be along at some point with some pearls of wisdom
as I know what a PITA it was when you did it but it did meant you really got into the bones of it. Thumb hope your keeping well mate
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DucatiRob
Suzuka


Joined: 22 Jul 2015
Posts: 1231
Location: Milton Keynes

2006 Porsche 997 Carrera 2S

PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phil 997 wrote:
DucatiRob wrote:
Very interesting that they are not vacuum operated, it would be great to see a pic of the valve itself! If not vacuum then they must be motor controlled, all you need to know is if the motors are still attached to the valves, can't think why they wouldn't be!

The standard top gear valvetronic controller should do the job, you just wouldn't need the vacuum solenoid, and depending on wherther there is any electronics built into the motors a simple motor controller in its place!

An alternative to the top gear remote operation is replacing the switch unit in the console with a PSE type and linking up to a latching relay, I can send a link to my thread if interested as this is what I have done!


Ah Rob, I knew you would be along at some point with some pearls of wisdom
as I know what a PITA it was when you did it but it did meant you really got into the bones of it. Thumb hope your keeping well mate


Cheers Phil Thumb All good thanks!
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DucatiRob
Suzuka


Joined: 22 Jul 2015
Posts: 1231
Location: Milton Keynes

2006 Porsche 997 Carrera 2S

PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A11ykf wrote:
DucatiRob wrote:
Very interesting that they are not vacuum operated, it would be great to see a pic of the valve itself! If not vacuum then they must be motor controlled, all you need to know is if the motors are still attached to the valves, can't think why they wouldn't be!

The standard top gear valvetronic controller should do the job, you just wouldn't need the vacuum solenoid, and depending on wherther there is any electronics built into the motors a simple motor controller in its place!

An alternative to the top gear remote operation is replacing the switch unit in the console with a PSE type and linking up to a latching relay, I can send a link to my thread if interested as this is what I have done!


Rob you might be my savior here .
The valves look like this




I tried to get the guy in the garage to get a photo of the connections before he put the bumper back on but photography was not his strong point. He informed me there are 4 pins in the socket.

These valves are controlled with a controller kit like this

https://www.topgear.co.uk/bmw-style-electronic-valve-kit-with-controller-fobs-and-2-5-inch-63mm-valve?search=valve%20kit

Now that is for a single exhaust but the same idea although a double one might be more expensive and I really can't fork out that money for a controller.
I see from that controller that it can be opened or closed via the remote or also via the accelerator. I don't care about it working with the accelerator I would just like simple open or closed as you would get with the vacuum system but maybe I am off the mark in thinking it would be fairly simple for a man with some electrical knowledge to make that happen?


That is one expensive valve controller Surprised Surprised Surprised

Unfortunately your pics aren't being displayed!

I can see from the topgear pics that the remote fobs and the receiver (black box of tricks in the middle) look to be the same as the ones supplied with the standard vacuum operated valvetronic exhausts. Guessing the other unit is the accelerator/speed actuator.

If you could get the wiring diagram from topgear that might help!
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911tom
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Joined: 22 May 2012
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Location: Buckinghamshire


PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 7:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Could do with an image of the valves themselves. If you are happy with the remote fob as used by many with the vacuum controlled exhaust you should be able to use the same device via a relay...

As this is going to an electric actuator then I would expect to see 3 connections, earth, open and close. The relay connections would look like;




00000000000000000000000000000------------------- Valve open
+12V--------------------------
00000000000000000000000000000------------------- Valve close

+12V signal-------------WWWWWWWWW--------------EARTH
from fob receiver



* WWWWW represent the coil


Upload a image and we can go from there. FYI OP photo bucket is no longer free. You need to use a different site or pay photo bucket the equivalent of 6 tank fulls of V power. I know which I'd choose!
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DucatiRob
Suzuka


Joined: 22 Jul 2015
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2006 Porsche 997 Carrera 2S

PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've had a good google looking for electrically operated exhaust valves, there are some but can't find one that looks like the topgear item. I expect they are motor controlled but possibility there is some sort of solenoid or linear motor actuation! The OP said the connection is a 4 pin but they may not all be used! I would have thought TG should at least be able to put the OP in tough with the manufacturer!
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Demort
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Joined: 21 Mar 2015
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A 4 pin would probably be the feed / earth to operate and a potentiometer to tell the control unit its position .

Thats my guess anyways Smile
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DucatiRob
Suzuka


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2006 Porsche 997 Carrera 2S

PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Demort wrote:
A 4 pin would probably be the feed / earth to operate and a potentiometer to tell the control unit its position .

Thats my guess anyways Smile


My thinking too Dermot as most likely, but could be anything, assuming that all four pins are actually used Dont know
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A11ykf
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry for the lack of response I am currently away from home working so everything is on hold. I had an email from Alex @ Topgear a while back saying he would get his technician to call me as the manufacturer of the stuff he uses is in Taiwan so not the easiest to get hold of. This is the only image I have at the moment but unfortunately it does not show the connections. I will try and get some better ones once I am home. As I would love to get this working.

https://ibb.co/kfmMZv
 
  
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DucatiRob
Suzuka


Joined: 22 Jul 2015
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Location: Milton Keynes

2006 Porsche 997 Carrera 2S

PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A11ykf wrote:
Sorry for the lack of response I am currently away from home working so everything is on hold. I had an email from Alex @ Topgear a while back saying he would get his technician to call me as the manufacturer of the stuff he uses is in Taiwan so not the easiest to get hold of. This is the only image I have at the moment but unfortunately it does not show the connections. I will try and get some better ones once I am home. As I would love to get this working.

https://ibb.co/kfmMZv


Never seen anything like that before! There doesn't seem to be any mechanical actuation of the valve outside of the exhaust flow, unless I am not seeing something!
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Demort
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the bit that looks like burnt wires is a steel loop that moves the exhaust flap .. like you this is a new one on me !
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DucatiRob
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Demort wrote:
I think the bit that looks like burnt wires is a steel loop that moves the exhaust flap .. like you this is a new one on me !


Ahh...yes, you may well be right Dermot! If it were me I'd be whipping the cover off the cover off to have a peek inside, soon see how it works and how to connect it up!
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