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Will Statt
Nürburgring


Joined: 28 Aug 2003
Posts: 454
Location: Derbyshire


PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 1:30 pm    Post subject: Sorry.... another valuation question. Reply with quote

Sorry to be boring, but I respect the 'knowledge' available on here.

I'm thinking I may sell the old girl... I just don't use it really, and have only done about 1k miles per year for the last 5 years. Although that's more use than perhaps it sounds as I would probably use it ten weekends for an average hundred miles or so, and mine's a garage babe for the winter months.

Anyway... would appreciate your thoughts. £?

August '97 'R' reg
C4 Coupe
Manual
Ocean Blue/ Savannah (black dash)
White dials
Air conn
Sunroof
18" hollows
Big ovals
(all the above as it came from the factory)
69500 miles

It's had 4 owners, and I've had her 14 years.

It's had all heatshields done a few thousand ago, new clutch and dmf about 3k ago. Excel wheel refurb 3 years ago.

Fantastic history file including original sales invoice, service bills, mots etc. etc. (I used to think it was an 'exceptional' history file but it seems most good 993s have similar.)

So basically it's a reasonable mileage car, unchanged from its factory spec.

Paintwork is not great.... stone chips to front end and edges of rear arches, and a few swirls. looks amazing when Zaino'd, but the stone chips still evident.

It drives beautifully, and the few specialists (jzm/pct) I've used remark on it having one of the smoothest gearboxes they've experienced.

Downsides....? None really.... apart from paintwork, and unless you really think Savannah is suicide, or couldn't live with comfort seats!

What you reckon? £? ...... and can I let her go!?!?

Would it be best to get her painted, or leave her 'genuine as-is'?

Thanks

Will
 
  
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Bund
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 10 Nov 2013
Posts: 337
Location: London


PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 1:48 pm    Post subject: Car Reply with quote

This could get interesting
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madalaa
Yas Marina


Joined: 13 Mar 2008
Posts: 8855
Location: West London

1995 Porsche 993 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

....... has it hard backs? ....... are the windscreen scuttles front and rear rust free? ...... have the chassis legs been checked for rust if so have they been sorted? ...... is it still on its original clutch?
 
  
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Will Statt
Nürburgring


Joined: 28 Aug 2003
Posts: 454
Location: Derbyshire


PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

madalaa wrote:
....... has it hard backs? ....... are the windscreen scuttles front and rear rust free? ...... have the chassis legs been checked for rust if so have they been sorted? ...... is it still on its original clutch?


Have you read my post? Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
 
  
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Albionmuz
Silverstone


Joined: 28 Oct 2016
Posts: 141
Location: West Sussex


PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd be interested to know what the OP thinks it is worth and he would be willing to sell it for...
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Zingari
Donnington
Donnington


Joined: 25 Oct 2009
Posts: 11693
Location: Cheshire

1993 Porsche 964 Anniversary

PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It 'might' start with a 5 or more likely high 4s as the comfort suicides will limit the appeal and the extent of paint chips. Original paint is all well and good but it can never compete against a professionally fresh painted car; that said buyers can see the originality and decide for themselves.

If it is original I suspect the first thing buyers will be doing is peeling back the windscreen rubbers to check the scuttle.

As a 'rule of thumb' what would JZM give you for it if they know the car? If they're prepared to retail it then that's a plus as they turn away a lot of cars which included a 964 C2 that I looked over and thought it was OK Rolling Eyes Then add 5 bags to give you an idea for private. I suspect their trade to retail wil be £8k+ but they'll have to prep it and it sounds like it will need paint which will cut into their wedge.
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wozy
Imola


Joined: 06 Feb 2013
Posts: 779
Location: Worcestershire


PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not a knock matey. But it does surprise me that a car thats done halve the mileage of mine has had a new clutch whilst my stratos mileage 993 is still on her original.

Because of City traffic you may all say, but then would you want a car that spent its early years generally just ticking over whilst stopping and starting.

Mileage really doesn't say a lot about a car when you think about it. Grin

Best of look with the sale OP. Car sounds great and Ocean is a lovely colour Thumb
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Porsche Cars of Great Britain launched the 993 in the UK in early December 1993 registering 12 x UK cars on the 6th & 7th of that month; mine is one of them.

993 C2. MBM. C4 mounts, RSRs, RS Short shifter. RS steering wheel. FSDs & M033s
Previous 2.7S, 3.2, 964 and 968CS
 
  
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madalaa
Yas Marina


Joined: 13 Mar 2008
Posts: 8855
Location: West London

1995 Porsche 993 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Will Statt wrote:
madalaa wrote:
....... has it hard backs? ....... are the windscreen scuttles front and rear rust free? ...... have the chassis legs been checked for rust if so have they been sorted? ...... is it still on its original clutch?


Have you read my post? Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy


...... lol ...... yes but I missed the clutch bit and the comfort seats ...... but how about the rust stuff ....... Smile
 
  
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Zingari
Donnington
Donnington


Joined: 25 Oct 2009
Posts: 11693
Location: Cheshire

1993 Porsche 964 Anniversary

PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can agree on mileage as my 130k 964 is wearing better than my old 50k 993 BUT one of the first things UK buyers look at is the odometer to frame the price especially on 993. Then if they buy low they'll keep it low and not use it as they will knock the value.

I've said it many times these low mileage cars will have nipped out at weekends for the papers and a bottle of milk rather than a regular good stretch of the legs but the punter will be drawn like a moth to a flame with the miles on the clock. Sometimes you need to see beyond that like JZM did with a 964 C4 on 120k but fully restored. At the time I thought the price was a jonttt valuation but when I eventually made the decision to buy it somebody else beat me to it Rolling Eyes

Low miles will sell at a premium in the UK.
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Will Statt
Nürburgring


Joined: 28 Aug 2003
Posts: 454
Location: Derbyshire


PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had the clutch done same time as the dmf, which had start to vibrate, and was annoying me. Clutch actually had plenty of life left in it. screens are ok, or at least no visible trouble. Chassis rails look fine too. Mind you, I've had it since it was 5 1/2 years old, and it's always been garaged over winter, and not been used in salty conditions. Not much rainy use either really.
I know there's an obsession with hard backs, but can't believe someone would not buy an otherwise outstanding car just for lack of them?
I'm thinking I may get the paintwork done, as that then removes that being a 'snagging' point for a buyer.
I've always given my decent runs (no nipping to the shop) and normally my infrequent blasts would be a minimum of 30 miles/ 30 mins.
I actually drove it today... to charge the battery up, as it had stood for a couple of weeks. I must say, that I doubt there is a more rewarding car to own and drive, but I just don't use it enough.
Recommend me a good paint shop in the midlands? (pref one who knows their Porsches!)
Will Very Happy
 
  
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Zingari
Donnington
Donnington


Joined: 25 Oct 2009
Posts: 11693
Location: Cheshire

1993 Porsche 964 Anniversary

PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you're going to sell it do you want to put more dough into it unless you think it's going to attract the premium with a private buyer Dont know

Once cars start to get valued at a decent wedge the private market becomes limited as most with the dough they're looking to spend would rather pay that bit extra to buy retail from a trusted independent that offers a warranty and knows how to prepare these cars for sale.

Might be worth giving 911v a shout to see if they can offer you a price near to what you want taking into account what you're now looking at spending on paint. The fact you've owned it so long will be a bonus provided you've complied with all the servicing and other small jobs as they've come up.

Hardbacks look good but they don't suit everyone. they can be acquired but for me not worth the standalone price - your colour will be the cheapest though.
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Alam
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 12 Jan 2013
Posts: 345
Location: Buckinghamshire


PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 9:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JZM have a few 993's, the latest one below for comparison.

http://www.jzmporsche.com/used-vehicle-details/Porsche-993-U1236/

Zingari, have to agree about the hardback vs comfort seats. Love the look of the hardbacks but the comfort seats do what they say!!!



Grin
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90 Porsche 964 RS Spec (Now a RPM Build)
95 Porsche 993 C4s
 
  
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Will Statt
Nürburgring


Joined: 28 Aug 2003
Posts: 454
Location: Derbyshire


PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the link to the JZM car... a good comparison.

Mine would stack up at least equal to that if the paint was sorted I think, and it sounds like that one had fairly comprehensive paintwork done too?

Mine's slightly less desirable for mileage, but is (arguably) the better colour; better (looking) wheels and tail pipes; and a few other little plus points... white dials; 'R' reg, Mine cost £69k new.... perhaps JZM would get similar back!!!!!

Arena is a great colour, but I think Ocean is more desirable? Also despite mine being 'suicide' inside... it has black dash; black steering wheel; and the white dials, and I would say looks a lot nicer than that sea of grey. (personal preference again though of course!)

I see that one has comforts too, and as mine, I can't see that being a deal breaker really.

Anyway... one can hypothesise forever, and you don't know till you put it up for sale do you? One thing I would say though, is that if one is a frequenter of this site, then I would be just as happy to buy from some of the contributors on here as from a dealer. Many have lavished many £pounds and hours on their cars, and have great knowledge about their cars. JZM.... great as they are.... are dealers. I realise most buyers aren't probably suffering with the same degree of ocd as we lot though!

The reason I think my paintwork would be better done is presumably the same chain of thought as JZM. you can then show a 'perfect' car with no areas for snagging by a buyer, let alone the fact that like this red one, the car would look like new! Very Happy

Who knows.... Anyway.... would appreciate some pointers to good painters... pref in the midlands, but I'd travel to get a pristine job.

Sorry again for this value-my-car thread, but I respect the views on here.

In a bizarre way, I regret the way these values have gone. When I bought her in 2003, (and paid £30k) I was quite happy to expect a gradual decline in value, more than paid for by a great ownership/driving experience. What I've found is, that as the values have risen, I've resisted racking up too many miles in order to preserve its value, and have thus not used her as much as in the first few years. Pathetic but I can't help it! Confused Embarassed
 
  
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ch3tman
Montreal


Joined: 08 Dec 2012
Posts: 518
Location: RBWM & W.London

1995 Porsche 993 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Will Statt wrote:
Arena is a great colour, but I think Ocean is more desirable? Also despite mine being 'suicide' inside... it has black dash; black steering wheel; and the white dials, and I would say looks a lot nicer than that sea of grey. (personal preference again though of course!)

'Savannah Beige' is the 996 colour and for the 993 it was 'Cashmere'. Think there is a difference between the two and Cashmere appears nicer/darker/classy. I actually searched specifically for a Cashmere interior spec when looking for 993s, and whilst I may be in the minority, perhaps it gives you hope others will be seeking it out too if you decide to sell Smile.

Any photos of your car?
 
  
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Alam
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 12 Jan 2013
Posts: 345
Location: Buckinghamshire


PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On a personal note I wouldn't bother with the paintwork unless it was an ultra low mileage car. You won't recoup the cost of a paint job on the sale price in my opinion.

I was considering doing the same on my zenith blue 993 before it went onto JZM and they also advised that it wasn't worthwhile unless you can get the work done ultra cheap by a good bodyshop.

That said my Widebody C2S/59k will be up for circa 84k in the next week or so @JZM once it is prepped. This should give you a rough indicator of your vehicles value to them.

Kash
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Will Statt
Nürburgring


Joined: 28 Aug 2003
Posts: 454
Location: Derbyshire


PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

'Savannah Beige' is the 996 colour and for the 993 it was 'Cashmere'. Think there is a difference between the two and Cashmere appears nicer/darker/classy. I actually searched specifically for a Cashmere interior spec when looking for 993s, and whilst I may be in the minority, perhaps it gives you hope others will be seeking it out too if you decide to sell Smile.

yes, you're correct of course! Cashmere! (calamity cashmere no doubt some on here will say!!)

I also much preferred it to the various Greys I looked at. Even black wasn't what I wanted as seems to make the car so dark inside! Also, I had plenty of good cars to choose from back in '03!

Wil
 
  
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Millomboy
Suzuka


Joined: 10 Dec 2012
Posts: 1017
Location: Hampshire

1997 Porsche 993 Targa

PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Useless
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The only true freedom, is freedom from the heart's desires. And the only true happiness, this way lies.
 
  
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Zingari
Donnington
Donnington


Joined: 25 Oct 2009
Posts: 11693
Location: Cheshire

1993 Porsche 964 Anniversary

PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Will Statt wrote:
'Savannah Beige' is the 996 colour and for the 993 it was 'Cashmere'. Think there is a difference between the two and Cashmere appears nicer/darker/classy. I actually searched specifically for a Cashmere interior spec when looking for 993s, and whilst I may be in the minority, perhaps it gives you hope others will be seeking it out too if you decide to sell Smile.


I think Stevie Wonder was looking for one in cashmere closely followed by John McCririck Embarassed
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Me? The 13th Duke of Wybourne? Here? In a sixth form girl's dormitory? At three o'clock in the morning? With my reputation? What were they thinking of?
 
  
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Will Statt
Nürburgring


Joined: 28 Aug 2003
Posts: 454
Location: Derbyshire


PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zingari wrote:
Will Statt wrote:
'Savannah Beige' is the 996 colour and for the 993 it was 'Cashmere'. Think there is a difference between the two and Cashmere appears nicer/darker/classy. I actually searched specifically for a Cashmere interior spec when looking for 993s, and whilst I may be in the minority, perhaps it gives you hope others will be seeking it out too if you decide to sell Smile.


I think Stevie Wonder was looking for one in cashmere closely followed by John McCririck Embarassed


Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
 
  
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cableguy
Suzuka


Joined: 10 Sep 2007
Posts: 1235
Location: North Yorkshire


PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds like an honest car with nice miles, however I really don't see the value in painting the car prior to sale. A lower advertised price with a detailed advert would attract more potential buyers IMO. The next custodian may want to take care of the paint and other trim items, repairs etc.

Not sure on the Ocean Blue comment. Arena much more sought after IMO and less common.

GLWS.

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