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Martian
Magny-Cours


Joined: 18 Mar 2009
Posts: 2692
Location: Bury St. Edmunds

2007 Porsche 997 Turbo

PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 1:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK.

IIRC, Isysman has a standard clutch, turbo's and intercoolers. DMS are telling porkie pies if they say it's running at 620......
 
  
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Ishay
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Joined: 28 Aug 2015
Posts: 62



PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, just found the DMS thread you are referring to. You guys wan't to keep that argument going 3 years later!
 
  
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Norfolk & Idea
Österreich


Joined: 15 Jan 2016
Posts: 910
Location: South Yorkshire


PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Martian wrote:
OK.

IIRC, Isysman has a standard clutch, turbo's and intercoolers. DMS are telling porkie pies if they say it's running at 620......


I'd say so, yeah.

circa 620 is what I'm running in my PDK gen 2. Upgrade as follows:-

Full Kline s/s system. Decat, well empty cat module. I do have a pair of 200 cell cat's if required.

Kline equal length manifold headers. These are nice, and you can see how the exhaust gas flow will be improved from OE.

Oh, and carbon fibre exhaust tips, he he. Obviously no power gains here but makes it look a bit a naughty. I like naughty....

IPD intake plenum. Slightly more volume and freer air flowing than OE I believe.

New set of re gapped spark plugs. The gap to electrode must be narrowed slightly to avoid 'flameout'

9E remap to bring this lot together. Boost pressure increased to 1.4 bar from 1.2. All protection parameters and set points left in place.

I say I'm circa 620 but I've not dynode it. Ken ran some telemetry and got 60-130 in 6.9 secs against 7.1 from the 997GT2RS. So I'm in the region of. It's bloody fast and I certainly don't hanker after any more poke!

Prior to this lot being carried out 9E give the car a health check including the all important compression test.
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2012 997.2 Turbo Basalt Black
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2016 Macan GTS
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Martian
Magny-Cours


Joined: 18 Mar 2009
Posts: 2692
Location: Bury St. Edmunds

2007 Porsche 997 Turbo

PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ishay wrote:
Wow, just found the DMS thread you are referring to. You guys wan't to keep that argument going 3 years later!


Huh?

For a bit of balance, I have a DMS stage 1 remap. When I originally enquired about it, was told it would give in the region of 575BHP. In hindsight, that was a bit of BS on their behalf because soon after I learnt about the VTG issues with heat and tuning, I read this EVO/DMS article, which also states that you need bigger Turbos to get >600.

http://www.evo.co.uk/porsche/911/6506/porsche-911
 
  
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Ishay
Trainee


Joined: 28 Aug 2015
Posts: 62



PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apologies the thread was on another forum and you weren't on it. Isysman was though (as the OP) and having read all 7 pages now I'm surprised he's popped up here still say 620 but never did posted the "independent" rolling road video that was promised or any other of the other proposed tests.

So, for now I think I'll choose to listen to the advice that mid-500s is absolute top with still quite a lot of work; that little, or nothing, is achieved with a remap only, and little more with just an exhaust (and that by then I'll need an expensive clutch anyway)

As a result, for now, I may not doing anything for power reasons. I'll have to see how long I can last with the stock sound though!
 
  
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Mezgerite
Trainee


Joined: 02 Nov 2016
Posts: 50



PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The standard car will do 540bhp on software alone, but the intake temps will rise on full throttle pulls in high gears and power will quickly drop. If it's going to be used in anger, 520 bhp from 1.1bar is where it should be tuned to. With 997.2 intercoolers, 540 bhp can be maintained. This means multiple top speed runs, track days etc, around 1.15 bar.

The absolute maximum on the standard turbo's with exhaust, intercooers, plenum upgrade and meth is 600bhp at around 1.25bar.

You can add 50bhp to these figures for a Gen2 car due to larger compressor wheels and much better intercoolers.

The DMS maps have huge torque - we have seen over 1.5bar of boost in the midrange. Backpressure builds generating huge amounts of heat. When dyno'd under loaf - not just a 5 second pull, peak power is actually below 500bhp as things get so hot. It's lucky the ECU is clever enough to keep things in check or there would be a lot of melted engines. Marketing over talent.

M.
 
  
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Ishay
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Joined: 28 Aug 2015
Posts: 62



PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have sports chrono but my boost gauge shows 1.0 in both modes. Is that right?
 
  
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Mezgerite
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Joined: 02 Nov 2016
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The gauge is sadly pretty useless, but 1 bar on non sports mode may mean it has been tuned.
 
  
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Ishay
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Joined: 28 Aug 2015
Posts: 62



PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How possible is it for a specialist tuner to tell?
 
  
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Mezgerite
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Joined: 02 Nov 2016
Posts: 50



PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy.
 
  
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wizard993
Donnington
Donnington


Joined: 23 Jan 2008
Posts: 11640


1966 Singer Gazelle

PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BHP is only one aspect of it. The torque figures are monumental even by today's standards on these mezger engined 996/997's

With Variable Vane turbos on the 997 it hammers out the grunt like nothing else.

Always remember that as each new 911 appears with increased power so does the kerb weight increase.

I well sorted 997 with a mild 550bhp will spank most things on 17-plate.
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wizard993
Donnington
Donnington


Joined: 23 Jan 2008
Posts: 11640


1966 Singer Gazelle

PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ishay wrote:
Apologies the thread was on another forum and you weren't on it. Isysman was though (as the OP) and having read all 7 pages now I'm surprised he's popped up here still say 620 but never did posted the "independent" rolling road video that was promised or any other of the other proposed tests.

So, for now I think I'll choose to listen to the advice that mid-500s is absolute top with still quite a lot of work; that little, or nothing, is achieved with a remap only, and little more with just an exhaust (and that by then I'll need an expensive clutch anyway)

As a result, for now, I may not doing anything for power reasons. I'll have to see how long I can last with the stock sound though!


A miltek with 100cel cats will transform it's sound.
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Norfolk & Idea
Österreich


Joined: 15 Jan 2016
Posts: 910
Location: South Yorkshire


PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

True. I've noticed the torque is insane. Too much to be honest. If give it too much too soon out of a corner those 305 section PS4S's let go. You really do have to recalibrate your power feed rate. And it's all down to the torque. Too much welly and you'll be facing the wrong way!
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2012 997.2 Turbo Basalt Black
2008 Ducati 1098R (Track)
2016 Macan GTS
2008 Vito Sport- Household Star!
 
  
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apollokre1d
Indianapolis


Joined: 06 Nov 2012
Posts: 2286
Location: United Kingdom


PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I never find it too much Very Happy
 
  
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Martian
Magny-Cours


Joined: 18 Mar 2009
Posts: 2692
Location: Bury St. Edmunds

2007 Porsche 997 Turbo

PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Norfolk & Idea wrote:
True. I've noticed the torque is insane. Too much to be honest. If give it too much too soon out of a corner those 305 section PS4S's let go. You really do have to recalibrate your power feed rate. And it's all down to the torque. Too much welly and you'll be facing the wrong way!


Get a geo' done that is not 'factory' and you'll be grinning for a long time.
 
  
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g7jhp
Trainee


Joined: 04 Sep 2005
Posts: 93
Location: Herts


PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Get a 996 turbo and map.
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Ishay
Trainee


Joined: 28 Aug 2015
Posts: 62



PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Martian wrote:
Norfolk & Idea wrote:
True. I've noticed the torque is insane. Too much to be honest. If give it too much too soon out of a corner those 305 section PS4S's let go. You really do have to recalibrate your power feed rate. And it's all down to the torque. Too much welly and you'll be facing the wrong way!


Get a geo' done that is not 'factory' and you'll be grinning for a long time.


Autofarm did me one the day before I left for holiday last week (still away, on an iPhone, hence some of my appalling grammar - well, some of it's me). I only drove it home and I live only one junction down the M40. I'm on holiday dreaming of driving it!
 
  
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Ishay
Trainee


Joined: 28 Aug 2015
Posts: 62



PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 11:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

g7jhp wrote:
Get a 996 turbo and map.


nooo
 
  
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Mezgerite
Trainee


Joined: 02 Nov 2016
Posts: 50



PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Where are you Ishay?
 
  
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Ishay
Trainee


Joined: 28 Aug 2015
Posts: 62



PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just the summer family thing in Spain. Hating the Nissan Note I'm lumbered with. Have agreed with the wife that it's the last hire car that's coming from the top of the TravelSupermarket cheap list
 
  
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