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Scully
Newbie


Joined: 19 Apr 2017
Posts: 35



PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 12:30 pm    Post subject: PSE exhaust OEM replacement, or not Reply with quote

Hi All,

When I bought my 996 C2.2 (seen in this thread http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=121836&sid=9282d166f6c69d3781ef6d8470ceec93)

I knew that the back boxes on the PSE system were splitting, unsuprisingly on a system thats 13 years old, although it's not blowing yet.

I'm in a position to be able to buy a new replacement OEM PSE back boxes and I'm inclined to do so in order to keep the car standard and with PSE being a much sought after option.

Having said that, they aren't cheap, so what's your view on the value of keeping the car standard against buying an aftermarket system, even with a valve?

Do you think I'm wasting my money trying to keep it standard or is it worth it in the long run, bearing in mind re-sale value in a few years? The car is a completely standard (how I like it) 2004 with 56K on the clock.

Cheers

Dave
 
  
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EGTE
Montreal


Joined: 06 Jul 2015
Posts: 516



PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A lot cheaper to just get them repaired, if possible.
 
  
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Scully
Newbie


Joined: 19 Apr 2017
Posts: 35



PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EGTE wrote:
A lot cheaper to just get them repaired, if possible.


True, but let's assume for the purposes of this discussion, that I'm either going to replace it with an OEM system or an aftermarket alternative.

Dave
 
  
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MisterCorn
Zolder


Joined: 08 Jan 2011
Posts: 5393
Location: Nottingham, England

2004 Porsche 996 Turbo

PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the clue is in the question. It is your car, you like it being standard, keep it standard. I can't see any motivation to change it from what you like to what you don't.

MC
 
  
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Scully
Newbie


Joined: 19 Apr 2017
Posts: 35



PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MisterCorn wrote:
I think the clue is in the question. It is your car, you like it being standard, keep it standard. I can't see any motivation to change it from what you like to what you don't.

MC


That's certainly what I'd like to do, but it is a big wad of money. I just wondered if having a relatively recent system on would pay me back either in actual value terms or in saleability when I come to sell the car again, perhaps in a couple of years, compared to say, a Top Gear aftermarket system.

Dave
 
  
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DaleD53
Monza


Joined: 06 Sep 2013
Posts: 244
Location: Devon


PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Scully

I have the same approach as you so would be looking to keep it standard - especially if you intend to keep it for a while - prices are looking promising for nice examples of the 996 so if this continues it can only add to the overall desirability of the car - I haven't got a PSE but would consider fitting one later on - cost is of course a factor..... How much are we looking at ?
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Scully
Newbie


Joined: 19 Apr 2017
Posts: 35



PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="DaleD53"]Hi Scully

I have the same approach as you so would be looking to keep it standard - especially if you intend to keep it for a while - prices are looking promising for nice examples of the 996 so if this continues it can only add to the overall desirability of the car - I haven't got a PSE but would consider fitting one later on - cost is of course a factor..... How much are we looking at ?[/qbuote]

I'm looking at about 2.3k for parts only, from OPC, including Porsche owners club discount. It's a lot of money, but perhaps not as much as I'd expected, reading through previous posts. They wanted just under 3k fitted, but I'll probably get my indy to fit, if I decide to go for it.

Dave
 
  
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Zub-911
Silverstone


Joined: 08 Jul 2013
Posts: 113
Location: Perth, Scotland


PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like you I wanted to keep it standard but in the end was not prepared to pay the exorbitant cost for parts that used to be half this price and opted for the topgear units at £700..
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DaleD53
Monza


Joined: 06 Sep 2013
Posts: 244
Location: Devon


PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So here goes the man maths..... Yes it's chunk of cash but... if the value of these cars keep gently nudging up (and I think they will) in a few years you will have recouped the outlay whilst knowing you got the best exhaust, it's standard kit and very desirable- and it sounds great - what's not like
Grin

Joking aside if you can stand the outlay and the rest of the car is on the money it's the way to go I think thumbsup
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nickpan
Newbie


Joined: 30 May 2016
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Depends if this is going to wipe you out financially?

I definitely wouldn't spend my last £3k on an OEM exhaust given all the other issues a 996 can throw at you on any given day.

However, if this is just part of your rainy day fund - then I'd definitely do it. Especially cause you have a decent low mileage example.
 
  
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Demort
Estoril


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 3502
Location: Sussex


PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The original boxes lasted 13 years , i know from posts here that aftermarket ones dont seem to last that long.

I assume that original PSE will add value over a non original setup ..

yes its expensive , if its affordable then i would go for it .. but i prefer standard to modifed so i guess im a little biased and its not my money ( im good at spending other peoples money ! ).

Either way .. indy not OPC to have the work done .
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Scully
Newbie


Joined: 19 Apr 2017
Posts: 35



PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Demort wrote:
The original boxes lasted 13 years , i know from posts here that aftermarket ones dont seem to last that long.

I assume that original PSE will add value over a non original setup ..

yes its expensive , if its affordable then i would go for it .. but i prefer standard to modifed so i guess im a little biased and its not my money ( im good at spending other peoples money ! ).

Either way .. indy not OPC to have the work done .


Agreed. I do have the money now - I sold my motorbike when I bought the car, so that I had money to spend on it and this won't wipe me out. the current boxes are probably repairable (they're not blowing yet, as I mentioned and they don't rattle) and I'm hoping to get some money back by selling them off.

Any idea what they might go for?

Dave
 
  
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Hamblemark
Newbie


Joined: 22 Mar 2014
Posts: 30
Location: Southampton


PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have been thinking about this too - not because the PSE is blowing, more to get ahead of the game once they get to that point after 14+ years of use.

As Demort says, the cost almost looks reasonable if the replacement lasts for the same time given some of the problems with some aftermarket options.

One thing I was wondering was whether these would be the same, but without the porsche tax?

http://www.eisenmann.co.uk/Eisenmann-Exhausts/Porsche/911_996

Eisenmann made the original PSE for Porsche (you can find their stamp on the casings) so are these going to be broadly equivalent?

Interested to know if anyone else has looked into this.
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MNC911
Österreich


Joined: 10 Feb 2016
Posts: 973
Location: Prestbury


PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Keep it standard
options in order of cost:
1, Take them off, go to a close by engineering company and have them properly welded and then apply a high temp paint to protect them, then refit.

2, Ebay uk or Porsche breakers yard and buy what you need, then refit

3, Buy aftermarket, not as reliable as OE but potentially cheaper

4, Buy OE from Design911 or OPC and refit.

Personally I'd go down the line of professional repair because of cost (if possible on such an age car), but if that's not possible or it will be a temporary fix then forget that option. Then walk into the local OPC talk £pounds and pence off a new system with the parts manager. Let me give you a hint, do not pay the RRP that's all I'm saying from seeing what they buy in at. Think along the lines of Ford, Citroen, Kia and every other exhaust to manufacture and you won't be far off if you remove the word Porsche. OPC have a astronomical mark up.
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vlad
Hockenheim


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Posts: 726



PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's a bit of a discovery - if the eisemann can be had for €1700 I wonder what it will work out all in after taxes and shipping,.

I was in the same position several years ago with a 996 C4S

OPC came in at around £5000 fitted - so wasn't an option

Design911 sell the boxes today for £3300 inc. vat

I fitted Dansk - and sold the car with those fitted, it made a great sound, though there seem to be a few question marks over the longevity of the Dansk systems recently.

Coincidently I also just a few weeks ago had the original 13 year old PSE boxes welded up (split bottom seams) and sold them on ebay, cost me £100 to get them welded and I sold them for £250 - looked to be pretty good condition IMO (I gave them a coat of the VHT silver paint to improve the look cosmetically) - 1 of the actuator valves needed replacement (price of which seems to have doubled on design911 in the last week?)

The TopGear system sounds like a good option also - I haven't any experience of that though , beyond at the time 2 years ago they did offer me the option to bring the car down to have it fitted (I didn't - to far ) - but I remember dealing with them at the time very good communication
 



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Scully
Newbie


Joined: 19 Apr 2017
Posts: 35



PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hamblemark wrote:
I have been thinking about this too - not because the PSE is blowing, more to get ahead of the game once they get to that point after 14+ years of use.

As Demort says, the cost almost looks reasonable if the replacement lasts for the same time given some of the problems with some aftermarket options.

One thing I was wondering was whether these would be the same, but without the porsche tax?

http://www.eisenmann.co.uk/Eisenmann-Exhausts/Porsche/911_996

Eisenmann made the original PSE for Porsche (you can find their stamp on the casings) so are these going to be broadly equivalent?

Interested to know if anyone else has looked into this.


Good question. I've Emailed Eisenmann to find out. Will update once I find out.

Dave
 
  
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Scully
Newbie


Joined: 19 Apr 2017
Posts: 35



PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scully wrote:
Hamblemark wrote:
I have been thinking about this too - not because the PSE is blowing, more to get ahead of the game once they get to that point after 14+ years of use.

As Demort says, the cost almost looks reasonable if the replacement lasts for the same time given some of the problems with some aftermarket options.

One thing I was wondering was whether these would be the same, but without the porsche tax?

http://www.eisenmann.co.uk/Eisenmann-Exhausts/Porsche/911_996

Eisenmann made the original PSE for Porsche (you can find their stamp on the casings) so are these going to be broadly equivalent?

Interested to know if anyone else has looked into this.


Good question. I've Emailed Eisenmann to find out. Will update once I find out.

Dave


Okay, here's what Eisenmann had to say about their valved exhaust..

The Eisenmann flap rear muffler is not a “SPORT” exhaust in the literal sense… it’s a replacement exhaust for a damaged/worn down OE Porsche exhaust. It’s as loud as the stock exhaust and has almost the same “sound” (of course the Eisenmann is better J). The big difference is the material… our exhaust is made of stainless steel instead of “normal” steel. This makes our exhaust last longer….

Yes, the OEM vacuum line can be used for flap control. The muffler/flap works the same way the stock exhaust does.

The Eisenmann rear muffler contains the rear mufflers with flap only. We do not supply install material or anything else. Just pure stainless steel.


They quoted me £1785.70 delivered, which is a saving of nearly £600 over the OEM system. There's a four week leadtime, as they're (quote) handmade to order. It's hard to tell if the quality will be like for like though. Perhaps I'll try and get more info out of them.

I must admit, I thought that the OEM system was stainless too- I'm sure it must be, having lasted over 13 years in my car.

Dave
 
  
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Scully
Newbie


Joined: 19 Apr 2017
Posts: 35



PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 4:05 pm    Post subject: Now with pictures! Reply with quote

So, here are a couple of pictures of the Eisenmann valved system, designed as a direct replacement for the OEM PSE boxes. The valve is the same, they are single skinned instead of double and they are reputedly manufactured from higher quality stainless steel than the OEM ones. I guess they would know as they make them for Porsche. I guess they would be lighter too.

I did notice that there is no flexi section unlike in the OEM ones. Does anyone think that might be an issue when fitting?

I just need to decide which ones to go for...

Dave
 



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Demort
Estoril


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 3502
Location: Sussex


PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Flexi part is what has been splitting on the Dansk systems .. a solid tube is no trouble as you can adjust at the silencer bracket if needed but most line up without any problems .

Ive seen it a few times on Porsche systems but pretty rare as its the seams that tend to go first .
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clinchy993
Long Beach


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't Cargraphic do a straight fit PSE replacement for around €1700 ?
 
  
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