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Brucey1
Newbie


Joined: 15 Feb 2017
Posts: 16



PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had my car a Mazda 3 MPS on autotrader for 2 weeks not a sniff , it's back on eBay had a few offers just not close enough for me to accept . I will just have to bide my time I've emailed a few dealers with 996,s asking if they would take my car in part ex they haven't bothered replying .
im hoping a local ish. Garage gets a decent 996 in and I will trade mine if I get a half decent price .
 
  
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markv8
Trainee


Joined: 28 May 2015
Posts: 70



PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 8:06 pm    Post subject: targa Reply with quote

brought my targa with a few issues , because i wanted a targa had them sorted now i have a reliable fully loaded 09991 car that is slowly going up in value , used often enough its just basic servicing to keep it on the road
 
  
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Marky911
Österreich


Joined: 04 Jun 2009
Posts: 977



PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been following this thread for the last few days so thought I'd add my 2p worth....

I wouldn't limit myself to a Targa search. I'd rather have a full cabriolet if I was that way inclined or a full hardtop. The Targa has a load of weight in the worst possible place. Big lump of glass on the top. They can creak and if they go wrong they're an expensive nightmare. But hey their owners love them and there's a bum for every seat.

996.1 vs 996.2.
Unfortunately even Baz Hart has stated that due to the nature and design flaws of the engine "every 996.2 will bore score", some from as little as 20k miles. Some much sooner obviously.
A bold claim but that's what I read once. Don't make me go and find it, but I will if I have to. Grin
The single row IMS in the 996.2 is more prone to failure also.

996.1 can borescore. The people that say they don't are wrong.
But.. it's very very rare.
The early 3.4 (996.1) has a better coating on pistons and arguably the best IMS bearing, being the dual row.

However 3.4s can still -
D chunk
Oval bores
Drop valves
IMSB fail
Chain tensioners snap
Crankshaft bearings wear through
Etc

All 996 (non mezgers) can throw up a huge bill. Some you can protect yourself from, others are down to pure luck.

I went for an early 3.4 C2 manual Coupe with sub 80k, as there are a few issues that are definitely mileage related, e.g. crankshaft bearings.

That brings us into the sub 80k requiring no work argument.
Loads and loads of items in these cars are ready to be renewed due to age, irrespective of miles.
Rads, suspension, waterpumps, blah blah.

You WILL throw a couple of grand at least, at all but the best enthusiast owned cars out there.
If you do find a mint one with everything done it won't be £14k-£15k. It'll be £18k+, more like £20k+, easy.

So either pay it all out at the start with a £20k one or pay £14k and bring it up to scratch over time.
Either way the 996 is now a £20k car however you do it.

OP - Ignoring the Targa/Coupe/Cab choice, the manual/tip choice and the C2/C4 choice, (of which C2, manual Coupe will always be the most expensive), I'd be going for a 996.1 with upto 80k on it.
That would give you the best start to things.
Then add an LTT, flip the IMSB seal open, make sure rads are good or new, fit a new waterpump and renew coolant, stick some millers 10/50 in it and hope for the best.

After that it's pot luck as to whether you'll be one of the unlucky few.

Obviously on top of all that you then get into leather interior refreshing, suspension overhauls, paintwork perfecting, then putting your own stamp on it, eg aerokits, bucket seats, etc. So you can see where thousands of pounds can go very quickly.

Awesome cars though and finally being recognised for the unfiltered analogue thrills they provide.

It also depends on what sort of owner you are. You'll hear stories of cars needing nothing but routine maintenance but these are probably the type of owners who just cruise about and don't really lean on the car.
Start delving deeper and cars like that are ready for quite a few parts if you like things "right".

Anyway just my opinion and we all have one.
Good luck with the search. Remember the early cars are now 20 years old. If a car is described as excellent condition I'd still expect minor stone chips and signs of usage elsewhere, such as interior. It shouldn't be rough of course, but don't expect new. They simply aren't. Just because values are climbing that doesn't undo 20 years of wear from being used.
That's what I'm guessing your issue is and why your search is proving difficult.
Nobody likes imperfections but be realistic. Thumb

Sorry for long post.
 
  
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4b4
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 15 Jun 2015
Posts: 363
Location: Suffolk


PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marky911 - couldn't agree more - look at the 'air-cooled' bunch and there's an increasing amount of money required to keep vehicles up to scratch historically (with corresponding benefits).
Whatever Porsche you opt for, it's going to cost you, but we need to consider those costs as an investment - not just if you wish to sell, but to keep it up to the standards where you can exploit it's potential.
Buy, Spend and Enjoy!
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2004 996.2 C4S Cabrio Tip in Arctic Silver
 
  
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Brucey1
Newbie


Joined: 15 Feb 2017
Posts: 16



PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Has anyone any experience of friends green porsche ? he is advertising a few 3.4 cars at the moment although he never got back to me when I offered my car as a trade in
No one wants me wee Mazda Sad
 
  
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wasz
Kyalami


Joined: 28 Dec 2012
Posts: 1751


1999 Porsche 996 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 10:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marky911 wrote:

However 3.4s can still -
D chunk
Oval bores
Drop valves
IMSB fail
Chain tensioners snap
Crankshaft bearings wear through
Etc


....Crack heads...

I've seen pics on this very forum of a 3.4 with 300k miles on an unopened engine, theres another one here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtEq9OeGF60

Its what I'm aiming at for mine.....although I think the worlds petrol will run out first.
 
  
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Marky911
Österreich


Joined: 04 Jun 2009
Posts: 977



PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Too right Wasz, I'm not bashing them, just pointing out the possible, although rare-ish faults so I don't come across as 3.6-bashing 3.4 fanboy. Wink

They're all great cars when they work. It's when they break that things go sour, but every hobby costs money so what the hell eh? Thumb
 
  
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Jackzi
Newbie


Joined: 30 Aug 2015
Posts: 43
Location: Sussex


PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was chatting with a local indy about the bores on the 3.6. In his opinion, it's an issue that afflicts the 3.8 997s more often.

But as a result of that, people have jumped on the bandwagon and have been demanding/offering borescope checks on the 3.6 as well.

I'm not one to doubt the wisdom of Hartech, or anyone else's experiences for that matter. But the whole issue doesn't put me off the 3.6 as I prefer the look and overall package.

That and the fact that there are no 3.4 targas.

Not wanting to turn this into an engine argument, but on the basis of the last few posts, I'd rather pick up a reasonable car for my budget and then spread the cost of remedial work/improvements over the course of ownership.
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E39 530i
996 targa
 
  
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Jackzi
Newbie


Joined: 30 Aug 2015
Posts: 43
Location: Sussex


PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh and just to add that I'm fully aware of what to expect from a car that's over 15 years old. I've had quite a few and am by no means expecting a mint condition motor for the money.

That's exactly why I want one. Because it's not new.
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996 targa
 
  
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Phil 997
Fuji


Joined: 05 Dec 2015
Posts: 9399
Location: Bournemouth,Dorset

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jack , its does sound like you have a very realistic understanding of owning a 911 and what may or may not happen , which is also the case for many many other marques take range rover as one example and the huge list of what may possibly go wrong with a few at some point.
Owning any car will bring some poss risk but then there also the possibility the bus or train won't arrive if you dont lol. Think its called living in the real world Grin

Borescore can be quite an emotive subject and if you do the research you will see two clear camps on the subject the "it will happen to all 996.2 and 997.1 cars at some point" which is a very open answer as it leaves it true when a car reaches 500,000 miles and needs a rebuild Hand and theres the other camp which I sit in that are of the opinion that "it may happen to 10% or poss 15% of these cars" which leaves 85/90% that it wont happen to or at least not until an age/miles where any car would need a rebuild. Dont forget owners who have to spend 8/12k on a rebuild they were not expecting are very much louder on the internet that the hundreds of thousands who it has not happened to. I have yet to read a thread on the internet that says " hey guess what drove my car and nothing went wrong" Floor Floor

What I can tell you is that I owned my 2006 gen1 997 tiptronic for 4 years adding 50k to the final 89k miles had it borescoped when I part ex'd it and it was clean as a whistle. I did make the dealer borescope the gen2 997 I was buying and when he said "why its a gen 2" I said "well if you want to do mine then I want you to do yours " anyway that was also clean as a whistle.

Keep us posted on your search , I must agree a bit with the poster who said about the extra weight in the wrong place and the added troublesomeness of a targa roof , but they are very much a car that if you love the look then you have to have and I get that , I was the total opposite and on both my 911s I wanted cars with the sunroof delete option so minimal weight and rattles. which also limited my search options, but each to their own.
Thumb
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Others Enjoy The Moment Today.
 
  
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Jackzi
Newbie


Joined: 30 Aug 2015
Posts: 43
Location: Sussex


PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sometimes knowledge and a realistic understanding of owning a 911 are an impediment to actually owning one.

And I'm sure many forum readers (for various brands) can attest to that.

When I was younger I bit the bullet on a few cars without much thought as I didn't know much about them (M635, E34 M5...). Things didn't always end well, but at least there wasn't much dithering or reading of horror stories before that.

The Internet is both a blessing and a curse in that respect.

When in Germany, I started reading on the Porsche Fan Forum and everyone was terrified of a leaking RMS at the time. So it took a hell of a lot longer to even consider a car with that in mind (it wouldn't put me off now).

In any case I don't see why not when it comes to a borescope considering it isn't a huge additional outlay.

And might make for a great Internet horror story Laughing
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E39 530i
996 targa
 
  
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markv8
Trainee


Joined: 28 May 2015
Posts: 70



PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 5:53 pm    Post subject: targa Reply with quote

drove mine home today from lakeside after some shopping and it clocked the 100.000 miles so only worth pocket change now , and I assume anytime now I will here a bang , good luck with your search
 
  
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jboy
Newbie


Joined: 30 May 2017
Posts: 27



PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 6:07 pm    Post subject: Re: targa Reply with quote

markv8 wrote:
drove mine home today from lakeside after some shopping and it clocked the 100.000 miles so only worth pocket change now , and I assume anytime now I will here a bang , good luck with your search


You must have enormous pockets Smile
 
  
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markv8
Trainee


Joined: 28 May 2015
Posts: 70



PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 6:22 pm    Post subject: Re: targa Reply with quote

jboy wrote:
markv8 wrote:
drove mine home today from lakeside after some shopping and it clocked the 100.000 miles so only worth pocket change now , and I assume anytime now I will here a bang , good luck with your search


You must have enormous pockets Smile


deep
 
  
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Phil 997
Fuji


Joined: 05 Dec 2015
Posts: 9399
Location: Bournemouth,Dorset

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 6:31 pm    Post subject: Re: targa Reply with quote

markv8 wrote:
jboy wrote:
markv8 wrote:
drove mine home today from lakeside after some shopping and it clocked the 100.000 miles so only worth pocket change now , and I assume anytime now I will here a bang , good luck with your search


You must have enormous pockets Smile


deep


ooow mark over 100k you better not ever drive it again Floor Floor best put in the garage and call it a work of art . by the way I can run to £10 if you need to shift it before it explodes into tiny fragments. I do have the number of a guy that will only charge you a £5 to remove it as scrap Floor Floor Floor
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Others Enjoy The Moment Today.
 
  
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markv8
Trainee


Joined: 28 May 2015
Posts: 70



PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:02 pm    Post subject: Targa Reply with quote

Floor its outside with a please take me sign on it even the scrappy drove past it oh well perhaps i will give hartech a call to save it from impending doom but it still pulls 171 so shouldnt take long to get there Floor
 
  
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Demort
Paul Ricard


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 3343
Location: Sussex


PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I worked on one the other day with 130 k on it and it had obviously had very little love in its life let alone regular oil changes .. drove ok though .
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7pm - 9pm
 
  
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stefant
Newbie


Joined: 14 Jan 2017
Posts: 35



PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mine has 150k on it! Full main dealer service history and a couple of Indies. It is like new inside and out and pulls like a train. Seems to have been very well looked after..

I do hope it keeps going for a lot longer as I love it!
 
  
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Halcyon
Montreal


Joined: 02 Nov 2015
Posts: 598
Location: Somerset


PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not sure if it's helpful, but I wanted a Targa.. looked at loads.. Well.. 6.
Had to be manual.
Had to be seal grey

Then fell in love with C4, silver, convertible, tip.... and bought it.
it creaks and rattles like a tip-clipper in a gale! Very Happy

Would I change it now? Not bloody likely!

find an honest one. it doesn't matter what it is, you're still going to love it Thumb
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Jackzi
Newbie


Joined: 30 Aug 2015
Posts: 43
Location: Sussex


PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm actually going to check out a seal grey, manual targa tomorrow.

Done a little over 90k miles and has had a fair bit of preventative work done as well as lots of wear and tear items replaced (brakes, pads, clutch, etc.).

Wish me luck Grin
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996 targa
 
  
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