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Windy101
Silverstone


Joined: 05 Jun 2015
Posts: 103



PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:47 am    Post subject: Electric cars and petrol porsches Reply with quote

Given the inevitable creep of electric technology and stricter regulations on the use of petrol and deisel cars what do we think this will do to the market for Classic Porsches?
 
  
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jotaking
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 01 Jun 2012
Posts: 287



PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Classic petrol cars will be used as grow bags in the future.

Get out now whilst you can!
 
  
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GP41
Nürburgring


Joined: 19 Oct 2014
Posts: 453
Location: Lancs


PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wasn't that daft a question was it?

I think we'll all be surprised at the rate electric cars take off over the next 5 years. The car industry will have to weigh up what they do so as not to demolish the value of traditionally fuelled cars.
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Osh
Indianapolis


Joined: 19 Nov 2012
Posts: 2318
Location: Bristol


PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bloomberg's take on this:

https://about.bnef.com/electric-vehicle-outlook/


Osh
 
  
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Shurv
Albert Park


Joined: 09 Jan 2013
Posts: 1675
Location: Northampton


PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fully electric cars will take much longer than 5 years to make major inroads into our choice of cars. The lack of infrastructure to charge the things is a major problem. Someone needs to spend big in order to have charging points everywhere, in sufficient numbers, to make electric cars viable. Petrol hybrid is the way forward for the next 20 years,then we'll see.
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MisterCorn
Zolder


Joined: 08 Jan 2011
Posts: 5249
Location: Nottingham, England

2004 Porsche 996 Turbo

PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Never mind the charging points, surely the power generation is an even bigger issue. We can barely keep the lights on as it is.

MC
 
  
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rottenbend
Magny-Cours


Joined: 22 Aug 2010
Posts: 2588
Location: Hertfordshire

1997 Porsche 993 Carrera 2S

PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MisterCorn wrote:
Never mind the charging points, surely the power generation is an even bigger issue. We can barely keep the lights on as it is.

MC


Not necessarily. Several times in the last month large wholesale users of electricity have been paid to use electricity because of oversupply off-peak. It's cheaper to do that than scale back generation. Renewables have been providing > 50% of capacity regularly. The problem is peak capacity. We have more than enough generation capability but we need to store electricity off peak and use it to cover peak demand. Large battery storage https://www.ft.com/content/0f533cb6-bde6-11e6-8b45-b8b81dd5d080?mhq5j=e3 is one solution but there is another piece to the jigsaw - V2G or vehicle to grid . All those electric cars out there are in fact big batteries which could in fact help to provide electricity in times of peak power demand when plugged in. Just like your solar panels could put energy back into the grid, so could your car. Electric cars can be part of the solution not part of the problem.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle-to-grid
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Shurv
Albert Park


Joined: 09 Jan 2013
Posts: 1675
Location: Northampton


PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Buggered if I'd want the national grid sucking the power out of my car at peak times, I might want to use it then find the battery empty. Drivers will want to charge their cars when they want, not when they can, not sure the "storage" argument holds water, although an interesting idea.
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rottenbend
Magny-Cours


Joined: 22 Aug 2010
Posts: 2588
Location: Hertfordshire

1997 Porsche 993 Carrera 2S

PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shurv wrote:
Buggered if I'd want the national grid sucking the power out of my car at peak times, I might want to use it then find the battery empty. Drivers will want to charge their cars when they want, not when they can, not sure the "storage" argument holds water, although an interesting idea.


Even if they paid you for it? You could charge your car at X pence per KWh and sell it back at 2X pence per KWh. Effectively, you could be paid to drive.
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bazhart
Approved Trader


Joined: 20 May 2009
Posts: 803
Location: Bolton Lancashire


PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One of the biggest power generation costs is in heating up the systems and bringing the generators on line (all wasted energy) and then cooling them down again. They are actually more efficient and often cheaper to leave running 24/7 than switching some on and off for peak demand.

This is what resulted in dual fuel charging and with most electric cars being charged at night it would make a big difference to overall efficiency and result in more generators already being running overnight and ready for the morning peak demand - making electricity cheaper.

I suspect it would also lead to many owners installing solar panels to charge during the day and sell back to the grid, for benefits charging cars at night.

Overall for the electricity industry and our costs, electric cars would be a very good thing.

Eventually petrol classics will be a novelty and worth more and more so hang on to them, look after them and reap the benefits.

Baz
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Porschekit
Nürburgring


Joined: 12 Aug 2014
Posts: 490
Location: North East UK


PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 9:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with Shurv, that petrol cars are hear for a long time yet, just look at the facts. Here is my two cents worth;

At present electricity is mainly generated by burning fossil fuels, gas, oil and if Donald has his way "clean coal" in the USA.

Power generation stations are generally only 47% efficient, so you have to burn an awful lot of gas, oil and coal to produce a much smaller supply of electricity.

The government renewables target (solar, wind etc) for 2020 power supply was 20%, I think so far we have reached maybe half of that or less, with excuses coming out already that we will not meet targets.

We just do not have the capacity or infrastructure to generate enough electricity to power millions of cars in this country until we can switch to a new source or develop disruptive technologies.

In an Oil & Gas conference I attended two years ago a noted industry speaker declared an estimate that we have two to three hundred years of fossil fuel reserves left in the ground globally. So until the new tech arrives no wonder countries are fighting over oil and gas reserves.

Hybrids are the next natural step, as has been said above.
OK done....all comments are the opinion of the author....any responses can be sent on a postcard to 123 main street, etc. Grin
 
  
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GT4
Nordschleife
Nordschleife


Joined: 08 Nov 2008
Posts: 30191
Location: Hertfordshire and Hampshire


PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have 25 bags you can put towards a Nissan Leaf, if anyone wants to retire their aircooled

Dont know
 
  
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Disco
Estoril


Joined: 13 May 2008
Posts: 3579
Location: Hertfordshire

2010 Porsche 997 GT3

PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 11:06 am    Post subject: Re: Electric cars and petrol porsches Reply with quote

Windy101 wrote:
Given the inevitable creep of electric technology and stricter regulations on the use of petrol and deisel cars what do we think this will do to the market for Classic Porsches?


Well, in general it is probably safe to say that classics will be driven even less than they are now...

In general though, even if legislation pushed petrol off of the roads completely (which at the earliest is still decades away if ever) there would still be a demand from people prepared to convert them to electric drive IMHO. Values may drift up or down but there is neither a surge nor collapse on the horizon as far as I can see.
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Black 997 GT3 3.8 CS - Acquired for the 2012 season and beyond
Black 996 GT3 Mk2 - Gone, but will never be forgotten
 
  
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