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Fleety69
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Joined: 10 Jul 2017
Posts: 4



PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 8:07 pm    Post subject: Few little issues with potential 997 C2S Reply with quote

PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 8:57 pm Post subject: Few issues with 997 how bad are they ? Reply with quote
Hi guys. Looked at a 2005 C2S today. Really tempted to buy it. I rang the garage that last serviced it to see if they could tell my any more info (with the permission of the owner) OCD in Wallasey. They said they notice a few little issues with the car. The recommended the front suspension top mounts need changing due to split rubber. I've changed top mounts before but I'm wondering whether they will be any different having PASM ? They also said the vac pump was an issues. I've read up that these rust and leak ? Is this a hard job to do or can a armature tackle it ??

Other issue is the bore scoring. All I've read so far is horror stories. This car doesn't burn oil, there is no black exhaust tip. No tapping or piston slap sound. The garage said they didn't see any reason to carry out the bore scope check as the spark plugs came out in good condition. Is scoring really that common ? Should I get a scope put down there to double check it's ok ? Or am I being paranoid reading all these rebuild stories ??

Any help or advice would be great cheers.
 
  
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DucatiRob
Suzuka


Joined: 22 Jul 2015
Posts: 1225
Location: Milton Keynes

2006 Porsche 997 Carrera 2S

PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Top mounts are a reasonably big job I believe but not too difficult if you are handy with the spanners. Tandem pump is fairly easy job and around £260 from Autodoc.

The condition of the spark plugs is no indication of whether there is early onset of bore scoring. If they had the plugs out and they have a scope to hand it would be stupid not to check in my opinion. The sooting of the exhaust, oil consumption and tapping noise symptoms can occur much later than the onset bore scoring, I know this from experience. Bore scoring is not common but insist that they carry out a proper check and i they won't, walk away!
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nigel99
Suzuka


Joined: 16 Jul 2015
Posts: 1146
Location: Surrey

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 2S

PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi and welcome to the forum.

Do not part with any cash before getting an independent PPI and bore scope check. That's probably the best advice I could give you!
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Fleety69
Newbie


Joined: 10 Jul 2017
Posts: 4



PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The garage said that they had a quick look inside and didn't notice anything otherwise they would of advised a full examination. However. They did say that as it wasn't at TDC they didn't do a full check ??? And would recommend one ??? Which I found weird as there website states that will the major service they check for bore scoring when the plugs come out !
 
  
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apollokre1d
Indianapolis


Joined: 06 Nov 2012
Posts: 2343
Location: United Kingdom


PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not sure that adds up... if you really want the car and they won't do the checks for you then pay for an independent PPI and bore scope check yourself. If you are not prepared to do that I'd walk away.
 
  
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Phil 997
Fuji


Joined: 05 Dec 2015
Posts: 9898
Location: Bournemouth,Dorset

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welcome to the forum, as Nigel said
get a PPI with a borescope it will be the best £300/ £400 you will spend and if everything checks out you will enjoy the car so much more, and if it doesnt you will be very happy you did the PPI
usually the cost of the PPI can be recouped by knocking the price down using things found in the PPI as your reasons for doing it.

secondly the car is reg 05 which means it left the factory with the older weaker IMS bearings this can by instant and catastrophic if it goes and will mean a rebuild and IMO is a bigger potential issue than borescore . the 3 options open to you are
1/ visual evidence eg receipt that the newer stronger bearings have been retro fitted.
2/ build into the budget £1k to get them retro fitted ASAP
3/ negotiate within the price for the dealer to get it done and produce evidence eg receipt.

other than a receipt there is no way of knowing if it has been done without opening it all up.

Having said that these cars are very reliable no more to run/maintain than any German marque . and just about the best under £50k driving cars around , it will bring a huge grin. Do your pre purchase due diligence and know what your buying and you should be fine, these cars are not as scary as the internet horror stories would have you believe. You have already done the best thing and that's find this site and ask the question. very few of these cars get borescore you just need to make sure the one you buy isn't one of them, then follow the recommended rules to minimise any future issue, briefly that's change to millers 10w50 nano oil , don't hoon it above 3000rpm until its fully warmed up , change the oil yearly or 10k miles despite what porsche say, and you should be ok.
keep us posted Thumb
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Fleety69
Newbie


Joined: 10 Jul 2017
Posts: 4



PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The car is a private sale so I'll have to organise the checks myself. Is there a company that will do these checks with a borescope that offers a mobile service ?? Car is located in Cumbria if that's any use. As far as the service history says, it's on the original clutch an the owner doesnt think the IMS has been upgraded. So that's something I'll have to consider too.
 
  
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Phil 997
Fuji


Joined: 05 Dec 2015
Posts: 9898
Location: Bournemouth,Dorset

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One of the guy up North hopefully will point you in the direction of someone around Cumbria to do the PPI, Hartech themselves are in Bolton maybe worth seeing if they can advise of someone or help themselves. Thumb
at least you sound like you know where you are re the IMS Thumb
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silvermilnec
Österreich


Joined: 20 Feb 2012
Posts: 985
Location: Leeds West Yorkshire


PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All good advice, take it and use it to negotiate BUT don't ruin your experience of buying a 911 without the checks! If the seller a decent guy he will understand and should be helpful in getting the car to someone to have the checks done. When I was looking for the turbo I was given the following advice by 3 well known dealers "get the borescore done and let us see the results and we will be happy confident to give you a good price for your car"

One other point don't be put off by ims this and borescore that, wow what a great car the 997 is C2 C4 GTS Turbo all of them are simply pound for pound the best.
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DucatiRob
Suzuka


Joined: 22 Jul 2015
Posts: 1225
Location: Milton Keynes

2006 Porsche 997 Carrera 2S

PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 7:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The later, larger IMS bearing was fitted to cars from about October 05, so worth checking out the VIN, have a search on here you will find from which number it was fitted. This would be higher up my check list than bore scoring!
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Fleety69
Newbie


Joined: 10 Jul 2017
Posts: 4



PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

how do I check the vin number on here ? I ca not seem to find the search function ?

the engine number is 68512652 if that's any use ? from memory I think it was made in May 2005 ? which would mean the old style weak IMS ?
 
  
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DucatiRob
Suzuka


Joined: 22 Jul 2015
Posts: 1225
Location: Milton Keynes

2006 Porsche 997 Carrera 2S

PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it is a May 2005 car then yes it would have the old style IMS bearing, it is possible it could have been replaced with an upgraded bearing or had the seal removed internally that allows a constant splash of oil, but there would be no way of checking unless there is documented evidence.
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Phil 997
Fuji


Joined: 05 Dec 2015
Posts: 9898
Location: Bournemouth,Dorset

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heres the engine number info for you to check this one or any others your interested in for IMS pre and post upgrade.

Last IMS revision before no IMS (Gen2 MA1 block):

997 Carrera 3.6 with engine numbers from M96/0569507475 are the new IMS design.

M96/05 = 997 3.6 Carrera NA
6 = 6 cylinders
9 = design revision
5 = year (2005)
07475 = cumulative production serial

This means some MY2005 benefit and all MY2006 onwards benefit.


997 Carrera S 3.8 with engine numbers from M97/0168509790 are the new IMS design.

M97/01 = 997 3.8 Carrera NA
6 = 6 cylinders
8 = design revision
5 = year (2005)
09790 = cumulative production serial

This means some MY2005 benefit and all MY2006 onwards benefit.
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bobi61
Trainee


Joined: 13 Mar 2016
Posts: 86



PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 7:38 pm    Post subject: potential problems Reply with quote

Hi Fleety,
I use OCD to service my car and they are very good and know what they are doing, Buying any car is a gamble of some sort and you have to try and minimise the risks. Knowing what could go wrong and how much is quite handy. However all said and done you still have to take the plunge and im sure if you want any kind of inspection doing they will do it but you will have to pay. I just had a gut feeling about my car and a stamp at the back of the service book saying replacement engine sort of convinced me. Think positive these are great cars and good luck.
 
  
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MNC911
Österreich


Joined: 10 Feb 2016
Posts: 957
Location: Prestbury


PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 7:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd walk away anyway, the owner has been informed quite clearly the vehicle requires attention. What else has he / she been a skint @r5e about.

Buy one that's been looked after not run on a shoe string.
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