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johne
Trainee


Joined: 07 Apr 2008
Posts: 99



PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 9:00 am    Post subject: gearbox rebuild Reply with quote

this is probably be my next job in line first and second gear are a bit notchy .may be the traits of the car .but while doing this ill probably think about a lwt flywheel and clutch .I need some advice really .who to use and what other things to get done. not being to mechanicly minded can any one tell the difference with a limited slip diff . I plan to do the odd trackday . I can always seem to bank on good advice on the forum I live in the Essex area but could travel for some one who works on these gearboxes .also how about the clutch from steve weiner
 
  
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Zingari
Donnington
Donnington


Joined: 25 Oct 2009
Posts: 11664
Location: Cheshire

1993 Porsche 964 Anniversary

PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Clinchy is the man to answer this as he had his 993 box rebuilt and dabbles in the occasional track day Thumb

I think there is a thread on it somewhere but IIRC the gearbox rebuild wasn't cheap what
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madge
Nürburgring


Joined: 29 Dec 2015
Posts: 408
Location: Hampshire


PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll be interested to follow your progress with this johne.

I really struggle with the gear change between first and second on mine, even when fully warmed. If I'm being slightly aggressive with the revs when pulling away (which is my preference because I like the noise) I get a rather large 'clunk' going into second and sometimes it feels like it almost jumps out of first gear when I make the change. I have to nurse it to avoid the issue and can't really put my foot down until in second, and where's the fun in that?

With this being my first 993 I don't know whether this is just a characteristic or whether my gearbox needs a rebuild. I spoke to my indy about it last time the car was in and they didn't seem overly concerned. They said you could open it up and might not see any glaring problems and, commendably, didn't seem overly keen to spend my money for me. I had the gearbox oil changed but that hasn't helped.

I've got the G50 gearbox, maybe they're all like this. Dont know I could easily live with it but it does spoil the enjoyment of the drive somewhat.
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ras62
Montreal


Joined: 20 Jan 2012
Posts: 579
Location: Cheshire


PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Worn engine mounts make a significant difference to shaft quality so thats the first place to look. A simple oil change can also see shift quality increase.
As for the installation of a LWF I would try before you buy as they aren't to everyones liking. The noise especially doesnt sit well with some owners but the added response of the engine in the lower gears more than outweighs the downsides imo.
 
  
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Endoman
Imola


Joined: 11 Apr 2011
Posts: 813
Location: Bolton U.K.


PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would try an oil change before anything else and a clutch bleed. Usual check for LSD is jack up rear and turn one wheel if opposite turns in opposite direction no lsd, if same lsd present. LWF is a great performance mod but the chatter especially when warmed up can be annoying and the engine may be prone to stalling. I love my LWF and had the 1st to second stiffness 'til I changed the oil, the thump on releasing first is usually clutch not releasing fully.
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911smark
Trainee


Joined: 07 Mar 2013
Posts: 50
Location: Buckingham


PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 8:36 am    Post subject: Gear Box rebuild Reply with quote

I'd use Neil Bainbridge, BS motorsport, Wescott, nr Aylesbury, Bucks, Top bloke, knows air cooled cars like nobody else.
 
  
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Cameltoe & Heel
Österreich


Joined: 26 Jan 2009
Posts: 986
Location: Preston - Lancs


PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My box is currently in with Unit11 in Warrington for rebuild, car done 104k miles and it appears the diff orbital gears are toast, clearly been like that for a while. Would suggest previous owner hasn't changed the oil to cause wear like that. Dont know

Will change bearings and syncros etc.

Trev
 
  
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madge
Nürburgring


Joined: 29 Dec 2015
Posts: 408
Location: Hampshire


PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cameltoe & Heel wrote:
My box is currently in with Unit11 in Warrington for rebuild, car done 104k miles and it appears the diff orbital gears are toast, clearly been like that for a while. Would suggest previous owner hasn't changed the oil to cause wear like that. Dont know

Will change bearings and syncros etc.

Trev


What were your symptons Trev?

Have Unit11 given you an estimate for the cost of the work? Just a ballpark figure would be really useful.
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ballcock
Sepang


Joined: 22 Jul 2008
Posts: 2819
Location: Dublin

1996 Porsche 993 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For the OP's symptoms , would anyone recommend a transmission mount change? (assuming the engine mounts are done)
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Cameltoe & Heel
Österreich


Joined: 26 Jan 2009
Posts: 986
Location: Preston - Lancs


PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

madge wrote:
Cameltoe & Heel wrote:
My box is currently in with Unit11 in Warrington for rebuild, car done 104k miles and it appears the diff orbital gears are toast, clearly been like that for a while. Would suggest previous owner hasn't changed the oil to cause wear like that. Dont know

Will change bearings and syncros etc.

Trev


What were your symptons Trev?

Have Unit11 given you an estimate for the cost of the work? Just a ballpark figure would be really useful.


No symptoms as I bought the car damaged so no chance to drive it.

Essentially the gearbox requires further investigation before an exact price can be determined.

Eeek.
 
  
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johne
Trainee


Joined: 07 Apr 2008
Posts: 99



PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 10:46 pm    Post subject: gearbox rebuild Reply with quote

i thought changing the gearbox mount on a carrera 2 was difficult .I already have RS engine mounts and have changed the gearbox oil with motul 600. I'm having a check strap done this weekend by erdell in harlow .so I might go with the short shift kit next to see if there is any play there .seems like that is the cheapest thing next .and if that dosent improve it the gearbox rebuild next. I remember someone saying on here you can spend £10,000 on a 993 quite easily
 
  
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wozy
Imola


Joined: 06 Feb 2013
Posts: 779
Location: Worcestershire


PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As others have already stated, change the engine mounts before anything else. Mine was night and day better ref the gearchange between 1st & 2nd afer I replaced mine. You may as well go C4 mounts, less flex and a lot cheaper, nice halfway house between C2 and RS. Mine have been on four years and absolutly no issues.

Ref the 'bang' someone is getting whilst changing gear, I'd say that was a DMF on the way out rather than a gearbox issue ..... loits of 993s suffer from this. Thumb
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madalaa
Yas Marina


Joined: 13 Mar 2008
Posts: 8855
Location: West London

1995 Porsche 993 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I remember someone saying on here you can spend £10,000 on a 993 quite easily

...... but normally not in one straight hit ....... usually over a few years is about right unless you are particularly unlucky or OCD fussy ...... lol ...... Wink
 
  
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johne
Trainee


Joined: 07 Apr 2008
Posts: 99



PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 9:26 pm    Post subject: gearbox rebuild Reply with quote

Thumb
 
  
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johne
Trainee


Joined: 07 Apr 2008
Posts: 99



PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thumb
 
  
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madge
Nürburgring


Joined: 29 Dec 2015
Posts: 408
Location: Hampshire


PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wozy wrote:
Ref the 'bang' someone is getting whilst changing gear, I'd say that was a DMF on the way out rather than a gearbox issue ..... loits of 993s suffer from this. Thumb


Thanks for that interesting suggestion wozy. OK, I'll admit that I had to go and look-up DMF.... Embarassed . I'm surprised that my indy didn't float that as a possible cause of the issue.

Unless it fails completely is it something that would only make sense to change when fitting a new clutch?

Has anyone else suffered from the 'bang' between gear changes and solved it with a change of the flywheel?
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future
Trainee


Joined: 25 Oct 2010
Posts: 62
Location: Wilmslow, Cheshire


PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.sportsandclassic.com/index.php?page=services_gearbox_rebuilds

... end of. Give them a call Thumb
 
  
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LondonRob
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 11 Mar 2013
Posts: 311
Location: West London


PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

future wrote:
http://www.sportsandclassic.com/index.php?page=services_gearbox_rebuilds

... end of. Give them a call Thumb


I received the same advice when I had problems with second gear changes when I first bought my car. Phoned these people up (even though I'm not local), discussed over the phone and their recommendation was change to C4 engine mounts initially. This definitely improved the change. I subsequently installed a short shift kit and I think this has also helped. Well worth a phone call - even though it would be a pain logistically for me due to distance I'd strongly consider getting my gear box to these people if it did actually need a rebuild.
 
  
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wozy
Imola


Joined: 06 Feb 2013
Posts: 779
Location: Worcestershire


PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

madge wrote:
wozy wrote:
Ref the 'bang' someone is getting whilst changing gear, I'd say that was a DMF on the way out rather than a gearbox issue ..... loits of 993s suffer from this. Thumb


Thanks for that interesting suggestion wozy. OK, I'll admit that I had to go and look-up DMF.... Embarassed . I'm surprised that my indy didn't float that as a possible cause of the issue.

Unless it fails completely is it something that would only make sense to change when fitting a new clutch?

Has anyone else suffered from the 'bang' between gear changes and solved it with a change of the flywheel?


A couple of indies didn't pick up on it for me either. Took it to autofarm and they diagnosed it within driving the car 30 seconds. I've had mixed replies whether I should replace it, one said I should asap, the other who is a far more a practical kind of fella (and loves aircooled) said that he believed it ok to leave as is until clutch change. So far I've driven 30k miles with it like it is. Mind you it won't be long till I need it done as the car is still on it's original clutch at 140k miles .......
if it is the dmf, then you may as well replace the clutch at the same time, as the transmission will have to come out/dropped anyway.
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Porsche Cars of Great Britain launched the 993 in the UK in early December 1993 registering 12 x UK cars on the 6th & 7th of that month; mine is one of them.

993 C2. MBM. C4 mounts, RSRs, RS Short shifter. RS steering wheel. FSDs & M033s
Previous 2.7S, 3.2, 964 and 968CS
 
  
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Nimrod
Nürburgring


Joined: 25 Apr 2015
Posts: 487
Location: East Midlands


PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had problems with my c2s diff and gearbox which made 1st to 2nd very tricky.

The diff was replaced under warranty and I choose to have a gearbox rebuild and fit RSS engine mounts and a LWF at the same time. A full rebuild wont be cheap. I had all the bearing replaced and new synchro's from reverse to forth. From memory the parts were about 3.5K including flywheel and clutch and I paid about 2K for labour as the dealer did it at cost.

All in it made a huge difference to the car and even with slightly higher viscosity transmission oil after 5 mins it was a lovely box . The upgraded mounts helped the gear change and I loved the LWF the car was much more responsive and it stops chattering at about 2000rpm BUT it is much easier to stall . Even after 5K miles driving and getting reasonably competent at driving it I would still stall occasionally . I have a LWF fitted in my 997 I enjoy it in the 993 that much, it is actually much noisier but the smarter ECU mean it is far less easy to stall thank god lol.
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