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CarreraMonkey
Kyalami
Joined: 02 Sep 2013
Posts: 1974
Location: Silverstone (ish)
2007 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S
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 Posted: Wed May 10, 2017 9:32 pm Post subject:
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"Border reivers were raiders along the Anglo-Scottish border from the late 13th century to the beginning of the 17th century...they raided the entire Border country without regard to their victims' nationality."
Nothing's changed then.
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Laters Taters!
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glenwells
Silverstone
Joined: 20 Aug 2015
Posts: 109
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| Posted: Thu May 11, 2017 4:11 pm Post subject: small claims court would be last route
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Hi,
Sorry to hear of your issue I have a different car issue but pile of poop to deal with none the less.
I would agree that your direct route for redress is with the dealer.
How many miles have you done in the time you had it? Unless it is a lot then the car had the fault at point of purchase. For that reason alone the warranty company are likely to take a back seat because effectively you were sold a car with a defect when you purchased it.
That is not what the warranty is for.
I would strongly advise that you get a solicitor who is qualified in contract law to write a letter on your behalf. It will really be worth the money. The offer you will make is effectively a refund minus the mileage you have covered at for example 20p per mile or an equivalent replacement car or a full engine rebuild at the garage of your choice. Give them 14 days to reply and if no joy the matter will proceed to the small claims court.
They will definitely not want to go there. The facts of the case are knackered car that is a gradual process or a few thousand miles and they CANNOT provide any evidence that it had been checked before point of sale for bore scoring.
Should they produce something in the Mags Court it would seriously be frowned upon or dismissed as not admissible as it has been asked for on several occasions prior.
It will be a bit of a pain but a letter from a qualified contract law solicitor even if it is £150 with a offer and deadline for reply will be the best way to being down the 'ignore him he will go away' tactic.
Best
Glen Wells
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DucatiRob
Barcelona
Joined: 22 Jul 2015
Posts: 1290
Location: Milton Keynes
2006 Porsche 997 Carrera 2S
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| Posted: Thu May 11, 2017 5:02 pm Post subject:
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Good advice from Glenwells!
Just read their review in 911 & Porsche World, they come across as an outfit who are only interested in making money from the boom in classic Porsche prices!
_________________
Present
Carrera C2S Manual
Mercedes CLK DD
Ducati 996
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stichill99
Spa-Francorchamps
Joined: 03 Nov 2013
Posts: 250
Location: Scottish Borders
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| Posted: Thu May 11, 2017 7:32 pm Post subject: 993 rs replica
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I am sure that a few weeks ago the yellow 993 rs replica was only priced at £64950 so it looks like the magazine article is worth another £10k. Or has the 993 market rapidly appreciated!
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Rhodris-dad
Montreal
Joined: 28 Nov 2013
Posts: 523
Location: RHYL
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| Posted: Fri May 12, 2017 12:02 pm Post subject:
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I think the decision you have to make here is ....do you want to take the car back as "not fit for purpose" Dealer to pay you back...
or.....pursue the warranty company to repair.
!st option....the dealer has not provided any evidence that the bores were fine at point of sale (you need a letter about the borescope you had done and their opinion about the condition of the engine)
You need to gather as much evidence as you can so you have a nailed on case.
2nd option........warranty companies always try to get out of paying claims. It took the company I dealt with over 5 weeks to decide they would honour the claim I made (phone call to https://www.themotorombudsman.org/ worked in this instance.)
However, you will have to pay a percentage for new parts and for any "betterment" work carried out.
I ended up with a bill for £4k and the warranty paid the rest (£10k bill)
Personally I would go for option 1 as you have a nailed on case.
I really hope you get this resolved to your satisfaction. This country is full of people with no integrity.
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fants
Newbie
Joined: 03 Sep 2016
Posts: 1
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| Posted: Tue May 16, 2017 10:23 am Post subject:
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| alex yates wrote: | | I think the warranty company will probably say it is a known generic fault these cars have, therefore not covered with the warranty. |
If thats the case with the warranty company, then that needed to be disclosed when the warranty was taken out, I would say.
Also if they issued the warranty documents, without a specific disclaimer concerning this particular issue, with this specific make and model, then I suggest the warranty company has not acted in good faith. There may be redress there?
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Zeb
Montreal
Joined: 26 Feb 2008
Posts: 557
Location: Lancashire (on loan from Yorkshire)
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| Posted: Tue May 16, 2017 1:48 pm Post subject:
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991 C4S
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Huntergatherer
Newbie
Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 26
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| Posted: Tue May 16, 2017 2:04 pm Post subject:
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| fants wrote: | | alex yates wrote: | | I think the warranty company will probably say it is a known generic fault these cars have, therefore not covered with the warranty. |
If thats the case with the warranty company, then that needed to be disclosed when the warranty was taken out, I would say.
Also if they issued the warranty documents, without a specific disclaimer concerning this particular issue, with this specific make and model, then I suggest the warranty company has not acted in good faith. There may be redress there? |
Ive got to agree with the above, as insurance is a contract and therefore risks should be specifically excluded if they exist (track days on road insurance policies for example).
So in my simple brain, the outs they may go for are - wear and tear or its excluded.
I think the simplest route if you are having no joy is to employ a lawyer to at least review your position (not discounting the superb advice given here) and
then take his advice, which may involve getting them to persue for you.
Best of luck
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kye_997
Newbie
Joined: 04 Feb 2017
Posts: 8
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| Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 9:36 pm Post subject: update
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hi All,
More advice needed .. been a while as this is moving very slowly. Got the ombudsman involved who gave the finance company 8 weeks to issue a final resolution. They did not issue anything so then the ombudsman gave them 14 days and they (Ankle) have come with a report from an independent expert who states that the fault (bore score) could not have been present when purchased and it is due to something i have done (cold starts, hard driving etc etc). claiming this is the case as the car failed after 4 months of ownership.
They have completely ignored that from month 1 of ownership i had to put oil in as was burning 1 to 2 litres a month and completely ignored the well known issues with these engines.
I have spoken to a few experts who have told me bore score develops over a longer period but these are Porsche specialists that will not put this in writing for use in a court.
does anyone have any contacts to help ? I don't see how an expert can claim something like this without any evidence to back it up at the actual point of purchase?
speaking with the ombudsman on Monday morning .. any help appreciated.
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infrasilver
Fast & Furious
Joined: 04 Oct 2010
Posts: 7496
Location: East Midlands
2001 Porsche 996 Targa
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| Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 9:41 pm Post subject:
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It's a know fact that this gets worse over time and I'm sure someone could put this in writing for a fee. Getting a non expert to write a report is nonsence they have no knowledge of these engine quite clearly.
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http://euroroadtripper.blogspot.co.uk/
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jonno_
Monza
Joined: 29 May 2014
Posts: 208
Location: Oxfordshire
2005 Porsche 997 Carrera 2S
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| Posted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 10:54 am Post subject:
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Why not give Baz @ Hartech a call?
Can't get anyone more expert on these issues.
_________________
997.1 Seal Grey c2s manual, ltt, mobridge, zunsports, carrera IIs (summer)
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nigel99
Suzuka
Joined: 16 Jul 2015
Posts: 1207
Location: Surrey
2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 2S
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| Posted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 11:16 am Post subject:
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| jonno_ wrote: | Why not give Baz @ Hartech a call?
Can't get anyone more expert on these issues. |
_________________
Current: 2009 997.2 C2S
Previous: 2008 Cayman 2.7, 2002 Audi TT, 1999 BMW 318!
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resigner
Suzuka
Joined: 19 Dec 2013
Posts: 1055
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| Posted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 1:51 pm Post subject:
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| nigel99 wrote: | | jonno_ wrote: | Why not give Baz @ Hartech a call?
Can't get anyone more expert on these issues. |
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Yup, that + 1.....
Make sure you bill them for your time spent sorting it out as well....
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seeforez
Barcelona
Joined: 10 Jan 2016
Posts: 1476
Location: up norf
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| Posted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 3:19 pm Post subject:
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i think you may struggle to get an expert to say that Bore scoring can't be caused by one instance 0f hard driving - the truth is nobody is sure 100% what causes it, also i doubt an expert could confirm high oil usage is directly related to bore scoring on your car etc...etc....definitely worth speaking to Baz tho
On the flip side i would say it is impossible for their expert to prove otherwise - so that might be one tact but i would be more inclined to seek expert legal advice?
Good luck and keep us updated
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997.1
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mzmini
Barcelona
Joined: 30 Jan 2015
Posts: 1440
Location: Somerset
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| Posted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 3:33 pm Post subject:
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+1 as Seeforez has said 
_________________
997 3.8 C2S
987 Boxster 3.4S
Disco 3
2012 VW Polo
1964 1071 Cooper S
1964 1071 Cooper S 1991 Pirelli Classic winner
1971 1275 Cooper S as new time warp
1996 106 Peugeot van (pride of the fleet)
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drabux
Spa-Francorchamps
Joined: 01 Oct 2014
Posts: 370
Location: Bath
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:23 pm Post subject:
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Drove 900 mile round trip to view a red 997 tt for sale at Border Reivers last Friday. Despite claims that it was mint, I was a bit surprised to see nor preparation of the car at all (something Tom freely admitted). Car was okay, but over-priced (it's been on sale since Oct 2016!).
Anyhow, while test driving the car he did say that he never touches n/a 996/997 any longer because of his bad experiences with them. No comfort to the OP but it does sound like he has a grain of integrity.
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2008 Porsche 997TT Decatted and paddle shifters
2007 Mazda 6 Derv
1977 Saab 99 with 900T engine and 9-3 Trionic engine control
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Rob325114
Spa-Francorchamps
Joined: 12 Dec 2015
Posts: 280
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| Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 8:14 am Post subject:
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Sorry to hear this Kye. I had the exact same issue on my 997.1
The dealer didn't seem interested, and more or less told me the problem wasn't theirs since my car was 7 months old. They then accused me of causing the bore scoring myself. In the end, I sent it to Hartech. Best decision I made - they were able to explain the issue to the warranty company in detail, and I got 50% of the rebuild cost covered (the warranty company paid what it would cost to get John Smith off eBay to rebuild the engine). The car has been faultless since.
Yours sounds a lot more complicated than mine - but if you do get close to some kind of compensation, or want a rebuild, you need to have Hartech near the top of your options. They're not cheap, but they are excellent value for money.
_________________
Current: Agate Grey 991.1 C2S Coupe, PDK
Ex: Black 997.1 Hartech'd C2S Cab, manual
Ex: Silver Citroen C2 GT, manual
Ex: Blue Ford Fiesta Zetec S 1.6, manual
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Desert Dragon
Nürburgring
Joined: 03 May 2017
Posts: 407
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| Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 5:49 pm Post subject:
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Any updates 
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Porsche News
Motoring Editor
Joined: 08 Feb 2008
Posts: 6998
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| Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 10:45 pm Post subject: Re: update
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Update, that we are aware of is that the OP was able to win the case against the finance company based on the advise he had received. The finance company had to return the money to him but they are appealing the decision to the ombudsman.
Once settled 100% the OP will write a complete review as good point of reference for others in future who suffer bore scoring within 6 months of purchase.
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Desert Dragon
Nürburgring
Joined: 03 May 2017
Posts: 407
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| Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 4:17 pm Post subject:
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Ombudsman generally never upholds appeals from finance cos so thats great news 
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