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nigel99
Suzuka


Joined: 16 Jul 2015
Posts: 1111
Location: Surrey

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 2S

PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well done Glenn, will hopefully be sorted soon.
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Swampy
Newbie


Joined: 22 Aug 2016
Posts: 47



PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 9:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good on you Glen, you have a lot on your side (all positive) so fingers crossed and they will see sense and settle, if not they will have a very expensive day in court !

Swamps Smile
 
  
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drabux
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 01 Oct 2014
Posts: 363
Location: Bath


PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why does it always end up with the threat of legal action in order to get the dealer to act? It does not seem to matter what their provenance is as a dealer, it is always the same.

For their part, it's incredibly short-sighted since it causes them lots of wasted time, damages their reputation and, ultimately, they will have to pay up.

My thoughts are with you and I hope this is sorted out quickly now.
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glenwells
Silverstone


Joined: 20 Aug 2015
Posts: 102



PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 3:50 pm    Post subject: No repair! Reply with quote

Tetbury Audi have got back to me and the following are their opinion and position.

Oil consumption test at 0.8L per 1000 miles below what I estimated - so under Porsche 1L per 633 miles.
Therefore NO other tests or even a borescope done.

They have also said that Bore scoring on two cylinders is wait for it 'normal' for a car with 42K miles.
No mention of excessive sooting or tapping from the crankcase.

NO Repair, NO part refund NO return.
Will buy back at trade!

Need to digest this do not want to shoot from the hip.

Regards
Glen
 
  
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FZP
Imola


Joined: 18 Jan 2015
Posts: 816
Location: Cheshire


PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here you go.....should they provide you to the answers below, it can go in your evidence file for the case.
Dear Audi
Can you please kindly provide me with the documentation from Porsche AG showing that bore scoring is designed into the life cycle of this particular engine?

Can you also ducument the methodology you measured the oil consumption to achieve your results as they differ from my experience.

Many thanks
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effy
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 10 Feb 2014
Posts: 276



PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Absolutely shocking Surprised
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mzmini
Suzuka


Joined: 30 Jan 2015
Posts: 1170
Location: Somerset


PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One word sums them up To55ers good luck with it all Glen don't back down is my advice Thumb
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silvermilnec
Österreich


Joined: 20 Feb 2012
Posts: 891
Location: Leeds West Yorkshire


PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Typical! Don't back down unless getting the cash back is important.

Some good advice on here and well done for taking a minute to digest 👍

Good luck and keep us updated.
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jerzybondov
Silverstone


Joined: 27 Apr 2015
Posts: 127



PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow - I'm seriously impressed with the way you've handled all this Glen. I certainly wouldn't back down. Take your time to consider the best way forward and lets hope this appalling saga can be concluded in some kind of decent fashion.
Hope this hasn't put you off 911s for good...
 
  
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ragpicker
Paul Ricard


Joined: 14 Apr 2013
Posts: 3057
Location: North East England


PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its an abysmal, if not predictable reply. nooo

I wonder what the cost of the dealership defending this case will be compared to the cost of giving a full refund vs a trade-in price?

There is an awful lot of evidence that the car was not fit for purpose and it appears that the OP has every right to reject the car. Therefore the dealership are on a sticky wicket from the off.

I wouldn't be surprised if someone with some sense has a word in the shell of the arrogant dealer principle and the OP gets a full refund once they work out the cost of defending this plus the OPs legal costs.

Tis the way the game works I'm afraid. Once you scratch the surface the shiny dealers are almost identical to the shady ones...
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Frenchmeister
Suzuka


Joined: 24 Feb 2014
Posts: 1071
Location: Beautiful Cumbria.

2004 Porsche 997 Carrera 2S

PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stick in you are right they are wrong, a few years ago I took VAG uk to small claims court they bottled it and paid out.
They knew I was right and did not want to set prescedent as it was a known issue. (Audi B5 S4 cracking exhaust manifolds)
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rhino-man
Trainee


Joined: 17 Oct 2015
Posts: 97
Location: Kent


PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Elevate it to Audi UK 0800 336337 see what they can do, regardless of the fact its not a used Audi the dealership is using Audi's name to trade and thus their reputation. My contact was a lovely lady called Viv.

Did the used vehicle go through the 100 and something point check that a used Audi does? My previous Audi cab that I successfully rejected after they couldn't honour a warranty because of a engine map, they had mistakes on the multipoint check like ticking the box to say the rear door locks had been checked in a 3 door vehicle...
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MNC911
Österreich


Joined: 10 Feb 2016
Posts: 922
Location: Prestbury


PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glen

I understand you possibly don't know me on the Porsche brand circuit and you have a lot of advice to consider.

Read what I write, sleep on it for a day or two OK.

I have a lot of experience with MCOL and the judicial system.

Broker a deal with the garage under the Consumer Rights Act 2015, the right to reject after 3 months but before 6 months.

My knowledge is that dealerships are a slippery bunch and will probably have a company like Lawgistics Ltd or similar working for them.

A case like this is known as a win lose Claimant. In simple terms you 'might' win the case at a County Court Hearing before a circuit District Judge. That's a very very long road, a lot of sleepless nights and if you are Litigant in Person (which means you are not being represented) you will lose days and weeks of your life preparing the case. If you are being represented, you 'possibly' won't be able to claim legal costs incurred. Your Solicitors should be informing you of this information.
It's a win lose case, because as the Claimant you might be awarded monies, but in the long run you'll not have a vehicle to drive and it'll never be a full Porsche approved vehicle ever again.

Going to pursue the matter through Court , no easy measure. The Court might overlook a certain amount of lack of judicial system but you will be expected to learn 90% and adhere to codes and conduct.

Before all that you'll be expected to have gone through mediation before applying to the Court. During preceding the Court will most likely want to instruct Directions to present a joint instructed Expert Report. Porsche Cars GB Ltd will not become involved with any Court proceedings. That I can assure you of.

This is just the tip of the iceberg, if you want to PM me to discuss this more privately, feel free and we can discuss further.
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rhino-man
Trainee


Joined: 17 Oct 2015
Posts: 97
Location: Kent


PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They also settled to me after sending a letter before action by recorded delivery giving them seven days to settle or I would commence action, they contacted me on day 6 to settle.
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glenwells
Silverstone


Joined: 20 Aug 2015
Posts: 102



PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 6:59 pm    Post subject: Thank you Reply with quote

Just a thanks to all that have so far taken the time to read this thread and offer support and advice.

I do have a way forward but cannot disclose what that is at this time other than to say it is very well considered and pragmatic.

Thanks
Glen Wells
 
  
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MJA911
Indianapolis


Joined: 10 Dec 2013
Posts: 2428
Location: Berkshire

2006 Porsche 997 GT3

PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nicely done Glen 👍
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MNC911
Österreich


Joined: 10 Feb 2016
Posts: 922
Location: Prestbury


PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very good, that's the result you needed and required I can assure you. One will presume it'll go through an auction block and unfortunately the process will recycle again through another seller and buyer.

The record will be held on the Porsche AG database against the chassis number as per the bore scoring. It's pretty much worthless to most. The only people capable of flipping it now are specialists in engine rebuilds.

One thing it has reinforced is a Pre Purchase Independent Inspection, no matter what the age or condition.

Well, move on and put the experience in the past
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Bonners1
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 09 Sep 2008
Posts: 260
Location: Gerrards Cross


PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 10:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good luck Glen, fingers crossed for a satisfactory outcome.
 
  
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glenwells
Silverstone


Joined: 20 Aug 2015
Posts: 102



PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2017 4:21 pm    Post subject: Outcome of car issue Reply with quote

Hi All,

Been a turn of events I was not expecting but pleased with the outcome.
The garage I bought the car from had stated their position as : no repair no part refund and not accepting the car back as the oil consumption test by Porsche Swindon had was saying 0.8L/1000 miles. Their opinion that the car is fine, the marks on the crankcases not abnormal.

Left me stuck between two opposed opinions. The one above and the opinion of SCSPorsche saying - notable borescoring on two cylinders needs 10K repair, new crankcases and pistons + other stuff.

Giving the garage their due credit they accepted that I was stuck between a rock and hard place of two extremely opposite assessments.
They agreed with my suggestion that we would go to another garage for an independent opinion. That garage would borescope, compression test etc and provide their findings and opinion. The garage that was agreed upon was Hartech Porsche Specialists.
I made arrangements with Barry Hart and Tobias and the car was assessed last Monday.

The outcome was not as expected. Barry oversaw things and I was given the royal tour whilst the car was prepped - bumper and exhausts off etc.
I was shown a couple of Gen2 997s crankcases that had failed - various degrees of piston and crankcase scoring damage. Having seen the engines dismantled and on explanation I have an understanding of what is going on in the gen2 engines. After lunch Barry came back with the result that they were more towards the opinion of Tetbury Audi than that of SCSPorsche.

Their opinion was that there are some scoring lines on two cylinders but it is minor at this time. They were not the same as the marks on the other gen 2's that had failed where there were more marks but majority is where you cannot see below the piston crown. they use the camera on the dismantled crankcases and showed me what the damage looks like on the screen. Also how at different angle the same marks can look very different! Correctly assessing what the camera is seeing is not that straight forward.

He said it was not in a condition where he would advise such a rebuild. Further advise was to move to a different oil if I wanted to, but 0.8L although annoying was ok. I was told to monitor the oil use in the coming few thousand miles to see if it remained constant and to watch if it increased appreciably.

He said that the offer of Tetbury Audi to extend the warranty was sensible. It will take me quite some time to cover 5K miles for example.
It was well worth the long journey and great to speak to Barry who has such enthusiasm and knowledge of the cars and these engines, his team too I must add.

I have passed my results onto Tetbury Audi and not sure what to make of the findings of SCSPorsche at this time! I need to give that some thought. It never crossed my mind to question the opinion of SCSPorshce as they are well thought of and recommended. I do not think I will be going back there again. The last 7 weeks have been 'quite' annoying (understatement!) with it all being on my mind. Worse things going on in the world and I appreciate that.

I am going to change to a Millers Nanotech oil of a different grade, monitor the oil and get back to enjoying the car rather than worrying about it.

Also learned that the high pressure fuel pump ticks in time with the revs of the engine, does not go away when warmed up and it is not a ticking piston!! Last 911 was not DFI. Need to get louder exhausts I think.

Thank you to all those that have given wise words.

Big thanks.

Regards
Glen Wells
 
  
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nigel99
Suzuka


Joined: 16 Jul 2015
Posts: 1111
Location: Surrey

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 2S

PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2017 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Glen, that's really good news, I'm pleased for you. I guess there's a reason why Hartech are so widely accepted as the main players in this area. worship

It's still strange that you're seeing a much higher oil usage than others, including myself, but if Baz says not to worry then I wouldn't.

You can really enjoy the next 5k miles knowing you have the extended warranty so make the most of it. You've also made a number of gen 2 owners brief a small sigh of relief Thumb
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