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glenwells
Silverstone


Joined: 20 Aug 2015
Posts: 102



PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 7:41 am    Post subject: 997.2 Engine problems and oil use Reply with quote

Hi All,

After saving for a long time and heavily stretching my budget last December I bought a 997.2S PDK with all whistles and bells etc. I went for that type so that I would not have engine 'concerns' for a 997.1S that has not had a full Hartech or other rebuild. I know there are many owners on original trouble free engines so no offence intended.

When I bought the car I had my checklist with me ; bodywork, brakes, leaks, interior, history and paperwork, handling and noises on test drive etc.
I missed one important point!

The day after I got the car home I cleaned it as you do and went for some super unleaded and checked the oil - down all bars nothing showing on the elec gauge! There were no other warnings 'check oil' 'low oil' etc.

I rang the garage to express my concerns and that I would be keeping a check on the level.

It took 1.6L in 400ml increments to bring it to the full level - checked twice on level ground. I do miss an old fashioned dipstick.

Keeping this short I have covered 1722 miles since putting the oil level back to the full mark. I that time I have had to add oil several times, a total of 2.8L has been added. I have kept a record of useage. That works out at 1L every 600 miles and it is showing one bar down now.

I have had a number of Porsches over the last twenty five years and that cannot be right. The car is using oil like a chainsaw. The exhausts are completely blackened and sometimes on acceleration - as in the car drops a gear or two there is some grey smoke at the rear of the car. There are no oil drops on my driveway.

On adding the last amount of oil and working out how much it is using I have made arrangements for the car to go to the main Porsche dealer to be checked. They want it for two days and it goes in in a couple of weeks due to needing a curtesy car.

Trying to stay positive but really taken the shine off what was supposed to be something really special.

I totally get that internet diagnosis is not an option but have any other members had experience with 997.2 like this?

wishing I had kept my old 911.

Regards
Glen nooo
 
  
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Poker2009
Hockenheim


Joined: 09 Sep 2009
Posts: 711
Location: London


PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it were me, I would take it to Hartech rather than a main dealer. You would get more options from Hartech should it need major work.
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s70rjw
Monza


Joined: 26 Nov 2014
Posts: 194
Location: York


PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 8:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some comments which may reassure you here https://rennlist.com/forums/997-forum/496206-997-2-oil-consumption.html until you have your car inspected.
 
  
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Alfaian
Hockenheim


Joined: 12 Mar 2014
Posts: 633
Location: S.wales


PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My guess is opc will check for leaks and give it a compression test and say it's ok and oil usage is within spec.

If it's not under their warranty, try an oil change 10w50 and see if that slows consumption.

Good luck.
 
  
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glenwells
Silverstone


Joined: 20 Aug 2015
Posts: 102



PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 9:28 am    Post subject: thanks for post info Reply with quote

Thanks for the link.

I read it earlier.
My car was bought with 40K on it so it is unlikely it is still running in before oil consumption drops.
I noted that two contributors to that forum string went on to other posts reporting that they needed to have engine replacements - mdrums and gopirates.

Seems they had scored bores but not due to 977.1 issues but due to missaligned piston or piston ring.

we will see.
 
  
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Alfaian
Hockenheim


Joined: 12 Mar 2014
Posts: 633
Location: S.wales


PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's very rare though mate. How does the car perform ? Any other symptoms like tapping noises ?
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DRZ911
Suzuka


Joined: 13 Mar 2013
Posts: 1117
Location: Belfast


PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry to hear about your oil consumption issues. Think it is a bad show that the car came from a dealer where the oil level had not been checked.

May turn out that the oil consumption is indeed within Porsche limits, so maybe nothing to worry about.

After inspection by Porsche, and assuming it is is OK, why not roll in the 111 point check and get the official Porsche warranty for either 12 or 24 months? This would give total peace of mind, and allow you to enjoy the car.
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bazhart
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Joined: 20 May 2009
Posts: 808
Location: Bolton Lancashire


PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There does seem to be very few problems with these engines.

However the 5 we have seen all had the same problem - that the cylinder bores at one end of the crankcases have gradually shrunk smaller in the thrust direction (opposite what they did in the earlier Gen 1 engines) and eventually the piston clearance was too small for the expanding piston which scored - easy to see though with a boroscope.

It is impossible for us to have on opinion on how widespread this may or may not be nor how many miles the engines need to cover before it might (note MIGHT) become a problem.

I doubt it is that but if it persists get a boroscope done and please let me know the outcome if there is a problem as at this early stage in trying to assess the scale of the problem - all information helps however small.

Baz
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glenwells
Silverstone


Joined: 20 Aug 2015
Posts: 102



PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 11:03 am    Post subject: Thanks for info Reply with quote

Hi,

Checking with the manual the max Porsche now says for oil use is 633 miles per Lire = 100K/L. That seems really high equal to putting oil in with every petrol fill up!

If my calculations are correct, and I have no reason to doubt my maths as I kept a spreadsheet of when and how much oil was added, then I am at 1722 miles and 2.8L oil. That works out to 615 per Litre or a bit worse as still one bar down now (up to 400ml).

I did buy a warranty from the dealer and contacted the warranty company about getting the car checked.
Rather disconcerting reply as they said if checked and no mechanical failure I get the bill ok I see that. Also - if it is a mechanical fault take it up with the dealer as the fault was there a point of purchase and therefore not a warranty claim!! nice.

Thanks BAZ for the additional info I follow your threads with interest.

ta
Glen
 
  
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glenwells
Silverstone


Joined: 20 Aug 2015
Posts: 102



PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 11:09 am    Post subject: to Alfaian Reply with quote

Alfaian - It's very rare though mate. How does the car perform ? Any other symptoms like tapping noises ?

It may be my imaginations but I do feel that my last 911 a 996 3.6L C2 manual was more responsive but do not see how can that be given this is the 3.8S with quite a few more horses.

Yes there is a tapping sound not very loud from the left of the engine and in time with engine revs. The sound is constant and does not go away when warm. Trying to convince myself it is just the timing belt.

ta
Glen
 
  
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Alfaian
Hockenheim


Joined: 12 Mar 2014
Posts: 633
Location: S.wales


PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 11:26 am    Post subject: Re: to Alfaian Reply with quote

glenwells wrote:
Alfaian - It's very rare though mate. How does the car perform ? Any other symptoms like tapping noises ?

It may be my imaginations but I do feel that my last 911 a 996 3.6L C2 manual was more responsive but do not see how can that be given this is the 3.8S with quite a few more horses.

Yes there is a tapping sound not very loud from the left of the engine and in time with engine revs. The sound is constant and does not go away when warm. Trying to convince myself it is just the timing belt.

ta
Glen


Hi glen, you mean auxiliary belt as there's no timing belt on these Thumb

Yes it could be the sound of the belt or the hydraulic tappets. You would definitely know the sound of a piston hitting the cylinder head.

Anyway, if you're any good with spanners, try taking the spark plugs out and see how they look. It's not a difficult job but on the dfi engine, I believe they can coke up and be difficult to extract so take it easy.

I would change the plugs oil and filter using 10w50 millers nano. Simple job and plenty of videos online to help and see how it performs after. Should be a lot different to the 996 C2.

Inspecting the plugs should give you more of an idea what's going on.

If they are all the same, I can't see there's much going wrong and you've bought a car that likes oil. They are out there. If you have 1 or 2 plugs scooted more than others then, you have a problem in the cylinders they came out of.

If so, get bores inspected and go from there.

Good luck with the warranty company frustrated

Thumb
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glenwells
Silverstone


Joined: 20 Aug 2015
Posts: 102



PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 12:59 pm    Post subject: To Alfaian Reply with quote

Hi

The car is going into Porsche Exeter on the 16th May. I hope that the points you have suggested will form part of their investigation.

Will keep you posted as to what they find if they do find anything.
I cannot see me keeping the car if it is going to continue to use that much oil! Cannot see how that will do the engine any good long term - gunking everything up etc.

Last car I had that used quite a bit of oil, about a litre every thousand miles, was a 1980 Volvo 240 with 125K miles and it had a busted piston ring!

ta
Glen
 
  
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Alfaian
Hockenheim


Joined: 12 Mar 2014
Posts: 633
Location: S.wales


PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glen, they will do a compression test on all 6 cylinders and have the plugs out.

Opc now do video presentations so ask for one and a look at the plugs and link it up here. Hopefully they will anyway.

Gen2 owners will be interested to know the outcome Thumb
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DRZ911
Suzuka


Joined: 13 Mar 2013
Posts: 1117
Location: Belfast


PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 1:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Thanks for info Reply with quote

glenwells wrote:
That works out to 615 per Litre or a bit worse as still one bar down now (up to 400ml).


I was under the impression that each bar represents 200ml. Question

Worth checking, as you do not want to be overfilling.
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FZP
Imola


Joined: 18 Jan 2015
Posts: 870
Location: Cheshire


PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 1:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Thanks for info Reply with quote

DRZ911 wrote:
glenwells wrote:
That works out to 615 per Litre or a bit worse as still one bar down now (up to 400ml).


I was under the impression that each bar represents 200ml. Question

Worth checking, as you do not want to be overfilling.

100% 400ml. Only know this for sure as I had to double check the book before a top up earlier in the week
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silvermilnec
Österreich


Joined: 20 Feb 2012
Posts: 934
Location: Leeds West Yorkshire


PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glen it's terrible when your dream car gives you worry like this! Hope it all works out ok!!
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Gottans
Silverstone


Joined: 25 Mar 2016
Posts: 141



PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

silvermilnec wrote:
Glen it's terrible when your dream car gives you worry like this! Hope it all works out ok!!


+1 I hope it gets sorted out with the least pain possible so you can get back to enjoying the car.

The only reason to take it to an OPC would be if it is covered by the Porsche warranty but do check the reviews of the OPC if you are trusting them with your P&J. If it is not then take it to a recognised specialist e.g. Hartech.
 
  
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DucatiRob
Suzuka


Joined: 22 Jul 2015
Posts: 1205
Location: Milton Keynes

2006 Porsche 997 Carrera 2S

PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 9:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gottans wrote:
silvermilnec wrote:
Glen it's terrible when your dream car gives you worry like this! Hope it all works out ok!!


+1 I hope it gets sorted out with the least pain possible so you can get back to enjoying the car.

The only reason to take it to an OPC would be if it is covered by the Porsche warranty but do check the reviews of the OPC if you are trusting them with your P&J. If it is not then take it to a recognised specialist e.g. Hartech.


+2. Certainly hope it turns out well. If they do a bore scope ask that they give you the images for peace of mind or to have Hartech evaluate. Marking on the cylinder bores is normal and it might be worth getting a second opinion!
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rhino-man
Silverstone


Joined: 17 Oct 2015
Posts: 106
Location: Kent


PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've done about 1500 miles since my OPC service on my gen2 which now has around 60k and the top oil light came on, mine also took over a litre of oil to get the gauge back to the top which I thought was a lot for the miles covered.

Now monitoring it over the next short period before the warranty renewal comes up.
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Alfaian
Hockenheim


Joined: 12 Mar 2014
Posts: 633
Location: S.wales


PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rhino-man wrote:
I've done about 1500 miles since my OPC service on my gen2 which now has around 60k and the top oil light came on, mine also took over a litre of oil to get the gauge back to the top which I thought was a lot for the miles covered.

Now monitoring it over the next short period before the warranty renewal comes up.


Thats within porsche spec i presume for a dfi engine?

Its a funny old subject and one where theres no definitive answer it seems.

My gen 1 S had a service 3 weeks ago along with a bore scope. Found scoring on 4 and 6 yet doesn't use oil.

Done over 500 mile since service and oil is bang on still.

When i say it doesn't use oil, i mean a 1/4 of a litre in between srvices (2 yrs) and 5000 approx.
They all seem to use oil at different levels. Whichever generation it is Confused
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