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TBE997
Trainee


Joined: 19 Mar 2017
Posts: 71
Location: London


PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 6:58 pm    Post subject: Make 997.1 Great Again! Reply with quote

Hi guys,

i have had my 997.1 C2S for a few weeks, and so far all good. Since this is my first sports car, it feels different from any other car i had (Mini, Vauxhall, bmw). It feels very mechnical which i think it is supposed to be but if i am very ignorant i could say it feels "old" compared to the last car i had (reg 2011).

First, some info about my car, it's a 2007 Carrera 2S with 6 Speed Manual. It has around 60k on the clock (with full opc history), recently had the small inspection done.

I wanted to pick your brains here in terms of what upgrades would help me to make the car feel new again, particularly bearing the "high" mileage it had. My thoughts (based on reading a lot online to be fair):


- Rennline Semi-Solid Enging Mounts and Porsche OEM SSK (potentially the First Function Shifter upgrade, not sure people have heard of them, or even have one of their shifters - http://www.function-first.com/products/engine-trans/shift-right-solution). This i would hope would make shifting more precise again and also help reduce the play i have with the current shifter (stock Porsche)


- Steering Wheel and Gearknob - This is almost top of my list. The leather on steering wheel is pretty much worn out and very smooth/silky almost. I am planning of getting it upholstered (thicker and potentially flat bottom), not sure whether to go for leather or alcantara? on the one hand, alcantara will probably feel nicer but wear a lot quicker compared to leather.


- Suspension - I actually don't want to touch the Porsche suspension but i thought maybe given the mileage it makes sense to tackle this as well to improve the cars "drive feeling"? I don't plan to track the car and i don't want it actually lower than it is, quite pleased with the current height (i think it's stock -10mm or -20mm given it's a carrera S


Thank you for reading so far, any comments/feedback/tips highly appreciated, this is my first porsche and i want to to be as good as possible, happy to spend some money and time in making it a great ride!

Once i am through with this i have more things planned, but one step at a time. Also as soon as i get around i will take some pics and start a project thread.
 
  
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DucatiRob
Suzuka


Joined: 22 Jul 2015
Posts: 1196
Location: Milton Keynes

2006 Porsche 997 Carrera 2S

PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi TBE and welcome Thumb

I get what you are saying about the car feeling more 'mechanical', that's probably because it is I suppose, in that there is much less noise and vibration reduction built into the suspension and steering that you might get in less sporty car. Taking all the slop out gives you much greater feel to whats going on and helps the suspension work properly. The 911 also has a far more complex suspension set up than your run of the mill family saloon and is far more rigid, all contributing the mechanical/direct feel to the car.

You will get plenty of advise on here regarding modifications and we all have different experiences...my two penneth:

Rennline SS engine mounts.. have just bought a set but not yet got around to fitting them, will post on here soon. Others have fitted the RSS version but essentially the same design.

SSK - I have the cheap ebay SSK, around £40,, although you will see the same unit being sold for £150 elsewhere. Brilliant mod for the money. Helps with more precise gear changing and has a rifle bolt type action compared to the standard shift.

I had my steering wheel covered by Royal Steering Wheels in aylesbury, Hack is a top chap and does an exchange service. Really good value, around £100 for leather or alcantara and will do any design for you.

I don't think you can improve the suspension too much without ***** out for something like Ohlins kit. More rigid bushings will help a little, same for the steering. A full geo set up at somewhere like Centre of Gravity is popular for these cars, being a relatively complex set up then can get knocked out of alignment relatively easily!

Look forward to seeing some pics of the car
Thumb
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DucatiRob
Suzuka


Joined: 22 Jul 2015
Posts: 1196
Location: Milton Keynes

2006 Porsche 997 Carrera 2S

PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a pic of my wheel, recovered at RSW last year:


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Alfaian
Hockenheim


Joined: 12 Mar 2014
Posts: 629
Location: S.wales


PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow rob that looks great Cool

Rob has given you good advice and I too recommend the eBay ssk.

There's a guide on here somewhere, just do a search. Step by step on diy.

On the suspension there's so much to chose from. Mine needs a look at after my service report and, I might get oem (pasm ) shocks by bilstien ( minus Porsche tax) Wink and either eibach or h&r lowering springs.

Or I might go for b16 damptronic coilovers by bilstein which drops the cars stance. Together with 15mm wheel spacers all round Thumb
 
  
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Phil 997
Fuji


Joined: 05 Dec 2015
Posts: 9133
Location: Bournemouth,Dorset

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welcome TBE , I agree with everything Rob has already said, I have rennline semisolids on my car useing the yellow on yellow bushing as thats the softest option and very similar to the RSS ones. I also have the FF transmission mount insert again Yellow sport ones mine is a tip and it made a huge difference to the way it changes gear. avoid buying the powerflex ones as most have tried and removed them. if you want to keep the ride as soft as poss then maybe go for the road ones I think its blue.
both those mods will add to the mechanical feel which I have said in other posts is quite GT3ish . these cars are like that they are not grand tourers or sports saloons they are thoroughbred sports cars with the big grins and some flaws that go with driving this type of car . by not lowering it you will keep some of the softness in the suspension. Depending on your budget you car work with 3 options on the steering wheel
1/ get it refurbed bu DesignLS or Royal both are top notch and highly recommended on here.£100/200
2/ fit the gen1 sport wheel which is the one with the round airbag and thicker wheel. £500 ish
3/ upgrade to the gen2 wheel this is the most expensive option and will run you between £800 and £1000 fitted.

If your not lowering it I would consider fitting hubcentric spacers OE are 5mm all round non OE 7mm front 15mm rear is what most do . they do improve the stance of the car.

As Rob said a SSK is almost a must and makes a great difference to manual cars.
I would also advise if you have not already done it to get the design 911 induction kit with a BMC air filter it will sharpen up things a bit you will be amazed at how much better the car breaths and it adds a nice little sports note when you flaw it.

Moving on to general advice for a 60k plus car fit a low temp thermostat, change to Millers nano oil 10w50 change oil every year 10/12k not two yearly or 20k as suggested in the handbook. I am sure you have read the info but make sure its fully up to temp before going over 3000rpm and hooning it.
one of the things guys often miss when tweaking their cars is improved stopping so without getting into lots of money a simple improvement is to fit braided lines as these wont expand on hard braking which softens the pedal. goodrich or the like do nice colour coded ones and are not a lot of money.

Hope those ideas help a bit and will get it how you want it before getting into lots of money improving performance. Thumb Thumb pics when your ready mate.
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rob001
Trainee


Joined: 13 Jan 2011
Posts: 71



PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 8:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did almost all.

Got the OEM SSK and installed the function first shift right bushings and metal yoke. This will replace these plastic bushings with ball bearings, eliminating the flex.

Got the steering wheel re-trimmed + thicker thumb grips and in OEM gray Alcantara and stitching + 12 O' clock leather marking at Royal steering wheels (Thanks jack!). Great feel!

Got the OEM GT3 shifter in Alcantara

Added GT2 carbon foldable bucket seat.

Love it all
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Artic Silver X51 997 2S, manual
ex Basalt black 996TT K16/24, 5bar FPR, FVD DV, 100 cell Europipe, UMW tune
ex 993 C2 tip Iris Blue
ex 996 C2
 
  
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TBE997
Trainee


Joined: 19 Mar 2017
Posts: 71
Location: London


PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you guys, very useful advice.

I have just ordered the DesignTek Airbox Hose and ResonatorBlock together with the BMC air filter. Also trying to get mobridge installed, if i can get an appointment in the new few weeks.

I have also installed the Carnewal PSE remote, although to be honest i mostly have it on loud ayways Hand Thinking of getting a 200cell sports cat, but that's maybe something for later in the year with more consideration.

Overall, in terms of sounds, i would like to have it a bit louder in idle, but for now i can't complain too much about the PSE, as it is louder than i expected when you get 3K+ RPMs.
 
  
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Phil 997
Fuji


Joined: 05 Dec 2015
Posts: 9133
Location: Bournemouth,Dorset

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When your ready for 200 cell , I went with the topgear 200 cell big bore xpipe lovely sound when you floor it the gates of hell open Floor Floor but with the carnwael you can turn it down lol. also due to lightness over stock and flow they give a very nice BHP uplift mainly in the usable mid range . no remap needed no cel lights, passes mot etc. Thumb Thumb you will like the induction kit and BMC when it needs changing just get another bmc don't reoil it that's when you get lambda issues,someone has suggested re oil and then wrap in a paper towel and steep it in the airing cupboard to get rid of the surplus oil. which was a great idea but I havent done it myself. Thumb Thumb
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SausageCreature
Barcelona


Joined: 10 Jul 2011
Posts: 1444



PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TBE, in my experience it takes a while to learn the subtleties of 911 life, and the wow factors of the driving experience are not always immediately obvious to someone new to the cars.

The biggest steps for me in developing an understanding of how to handle my first 911 were:
1) Some private time at a local proving ground where I could push the car without putting anyone else in danger. This cost me about £60 for an hour and I didn't want to continue driving the car that hard for any longer. It was new to me, and could have been hiding issues I was unaware of. Also I was scrubbing a lot of rubber off the tyres.

2)Secondly my next big learning curve was following other experienced 911 drivers and seeing how they handled corners, how they positioned the car, braked, when they hit the accelerator and so on. It was an epiphany and taught me how to handle my car more than anything. Let's just say we did this in Germany, Route 500 into Black Forest and the Alps, not on UK roads.

At that point I gained confidence in how to use the 911, because if you drive it hard using the techniques you would in a BMW, or Mini or whatever, then I would expect it/you to feel uncomfortable with the characteristics of the car, I know I certainly felt unsettled driving mine enthusiastically until I had seen how others used theirs..

However, I imagine not everyone needs that and there are probably many that didn't have to figure things out like I did, but for me it made a huge difference to my enjoyment and appreciation of what I was piloting around the corners.
 
  
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Alfaian
Hockenheim


Joined: 12 Mar 2014
Posts: 629
Location: S.wales


PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SausageCreature wrote:
TBE, in my experience it takes a while to learn the subtleties of 911 life, and the wow factors of the driving experience are not always immediately obvious to someone new to the cars.

The biggest steps for me in developing an understanding of how to handle my first 911 were:
1) Some private time at a local proving ground where I could push the car without putting anyone else in danger. This cost me about £60 for an hour and I didn't want to continue driving the car that hard for any longer. It was new to me, and could have been hiding issues I was unaware of. Also I was scrubbing a lot of rubber off the tyres.

2)Secondly my next big learning curve was following other experienced 911 drivers and seeing how they handled corners, how they positioned the car, braked, when they hit the accelerator and so on. It was an epiphany and taught me how to handle my car more than anything. Let's just say we did this in Germany, Route 500 into Black Forest and the Alps, not on UK roads.

At that point I gained confidence in how to use the 911, because if you drive it hard using the techniques you would in a BMW, or Mini or whatever, then I would expect it/you to feel uncomfortable with the characteristics of the car, I know I certainly felt unsettled driving mine enthusiastically until I had seen how others used theirs..

However, I imagine not everyone needs that and there are probably many that didn't have to figure things out like I did, but for me it made a huge difference to my enjoyment and appreciation of what I was piloting around the corners.


Agree with all that mate and we all like to think we can handle these cars but they really do have a character all of their own don't they Grin

For me, getting the correct driving position and footwear are important. It may sound simple but you'd be surprised how many people don't get it right.

A friend of mine gave me a lift from dropping my 911 off for service 2 weeks ago in his Audi A4 4.2V8 and was trying to push it but was all over the place.

Big inputs to steering, gear changes missed etc while wearing working boots and the steering wheel pushed right in and up.

It took me bleeding weeks to get my seat in correct position in the Porsche.

Got it half between bottom position and top and back enough so my left leg is fully stretched when the clutch pedal hits the carpet.

Steering wheel slightly up from the bottom setting and fully out so my elbows are bent 45 degrees with thumbs in the grips.

All that along with a nice pair of soft shoes with rubber bottoms and you're good to go.

Loading the front on the brakes going into corners then slight throttle to push the car around and out of it really helps with understeer I find.

It's like no other car I've driven, it's like a go kart on acid Grin

You can feel what's going on and I feel connected to the car and it responds to inputs bang on. You can feel the back end twitching almost the second it starts happening and can correct it with opposite lock almost before it happens.

Truly amazing sports cars. There's nothing like it Cool

And I've owned some fast motorbikes in my time.
 
  
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SausageCreature
Barcelona


Joined: 10 Jul 2011
Posts: 1444



PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, the feeling of getting a corner perfectly executed in the a 911 is a lot of what makes it so much fun for me- balancing power to compensate the understeer but not oversteer so much that PSM kicks in is a lovely feeling. A little slide, no traction control warning and perfect exit of the corner Smile Great feeling. Not something I always manage to do.

I was quite surprised and alarmed the first time I encountered the understeer, I did not expect it because I had always heard 911s oversteer.

I'm in a similar driving position, but my clod hoppers are not thin soled and I find I am ok with that. Although I have seen a few folks in special driving shoes/race boots and was quite surprised by that, but they swear by them.
 
  
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TBE997
Trainee


Joined: 19 Mar 2017
Posts: 71
Location: London


PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks guys for all the great feedback and apologies for the late reply work, work has been a bit mad.

I have taken Phil's advise on board, this arrived yesterday Laughing

I have put it in newspaper overnight, but could see any oil mark this morning, seems fairly dry to me. Will try to put it in today or tomorrow.
 



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