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stokie1
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 23 Feb 2010
Posts: 276
Location: Staffs


PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 1:35 pm    Post subject: 997 mover Reply with quote

Afternoon all

I feel like ive just stepped up to big school on the first day of term having previously been a regular on the 997 forum ...!!

Ive had a couple of 997's and am currently "without toy" but am ready to buy

I was thinking of a 997 turbo but have noticed that the c2s 991 is falling in to the same price bracket so have a couple of questions/comments for you boys and girls please

- having never driven a 991 I am assuming the interior has moved on demonstrably as the 997 felt old 10 years ago
- does the 991 make a good noise - v important
- ive only ever had manuals - how is the pdk?
- the s has 400 bhp? - noticeably quicker than the equivalent 997?
- is it still a sports car or a tourer?
- essential extras?

has anyone considered the following instead

- f type 5L
- f360
- aston
- R8

all similar budget of 45-55

the car will be a weekender

ive always found the 997 forum to be very informative and look forward to your views/comments

what would you do?
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Porschekit
Nürburgring


Joined: 12 Aug 2014
Posts: 414
Location: North East UK


PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stokie1,

I'm pretty sure it's all down to personal taste, but here we go with my thoughts;

- having never driven a 991 I am assuming the interior has moved on demonstrably as the 997 felt old 10 years ago I ACTUALLY PREFER MY 997.1 INTERIOR OVER THE NEWER 991's. I LOVE THE "RETRO" LOOK AND I THINK IT FITS WELL WITH THE MARQUE. AS I SAID ITS DOWN TO PERSONAL TASTE.

- does the 991 make a good noise - v important. WITHOUT PSE DEFINATELY NOT. IN COMPARISON TO THE 997 WITH PSE, NO...IS THE SIMPLE ANSWER. I HAVE PSE ON MY 997 AND ALL MY PORSHY MATES TELL ME IT SOUNDS EPIC ON FLY-BY'S.THE NEWER TURBO ENGINES DO NOT HAVE THAT RASPY SOUND.

- ive only ever had manuals - how is the pdk? DON'T KNOW, ONLY EVER HAD MANUAL.

- the s has 400 bhp? - noticeably quicker than the equivalent 997? MY 997.1 C4S HAS 355 BHP WHICH IS ENOUGH FORME TO HANDLE, UNLESS YOU ARE ON THE TRACK THEN YOU WILL RARELY BE ABLE TO EXPERIENCE THE EXTRA BHP ON UK ROADS.

- is it still a sports car or a tourer? IN MY OPINION THESE MODERN SPORTS CARS ARE BOTH, SPORTY AND COMFORTABLE ENOUGH TO BE USED FOR LONG DISTANCE TOURING.

- essential extras?

has anyone considered the following instead

- f type 5L
- f360
- aston
- R8
I THINK £ FOR £ THE PORSCHE IS GOOD VALUE FOR MONEY. THE OTHERS EXCEPT MAYBE THE F TYPE ARE EXPENSIVE TO MAINTAIN.

I'M ALSO SURE YOU WILL HAVE MANY MORE VARYING OPINIONS, YOU MAY SEE A CONSESNUS IF YOU GET ENOUGH REPLIES.
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Graemep
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Joined: 25 Mar 2013
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did think about a 991 when I was moving from a 997.1 Turbo, instead going to a 997.2 Turbo S - I'd spent a couple of days (400 miles with a 991C2 courtesy car)

As said, it come dome to personal preference:

- having never driven a 991 I am assuming the interior has moved on demonstrably as the 997 felt old 10 years ago

Between a 997.2 and 991.1 the only major difference felt like the centre console, and I prefer the simplicity of the 997

- does the 991 make a good noise - v important

Sounded good to me - not sure if it had PSE, but definitely better than a 997.1 Turbo

- ive only ever had manuals - how is the pdk?

It was very quick, and a blast to drive hard, especially in Sport mode - gave me a nagging doubt about having a Tip. PDK supposedly better in a 991 than a 997

- the s has 400 bhp? - noticeably quicker than the equivalent 997?

Only driven a 997 Turbo. 991C2 felt fast enough for 99% of the time you would drive in the UK

- is it still a sports car or a tourer?

Both - felt great on a B road in Wales, and comfortable on the motorway

- essential extras?

Sport chrono? Didn't know the full spec of what I was driving though

has anyone considered the following instead

Need more than two seats, so ruled the others out otherwise would have considered the F-type and R8 V10

- f type 5L
- f360
- aston
- R8
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911_AS
Hockenheim


Joined: 22 Apr 2013
Posts: 709
Location: London

2010 Porsche 997 Carrera 2S

PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have long wished to have one for a while. I think they are stunning cars, which led me to hire a Targa 991 last year.

- having never driven a 991 I am assuming the interior has moved on demonstrably as the 997 felt old 10 years ago
Whilst I do like the Retro look of the 997 cabin, the 991 is streets ahead. The dials look more crisp and sharp, and the digital Sat-Nav display in the instrument panel is superb, not to mention fully up to date.


- does the 991 make a good noise - v important

In a word: Yes, on the basis the car has the PSE fitted.

- ive only ever had manuals - how is the pdk?

The PDK is superb gearbox in both the 997 and 991. In the 991, the instant gear changes, especially in Sports or SP mode are astonishingly good.

- the s has 400 bhp? - noticeably quicker than the equivalent 997?

Yes it does have more power, but I would be lying if I said it was noticeably quicker. The 997 isn't exactly slow!

- is it still a sports car or a tourer?

Its still a Sports Car.

- essential extras?

Sport Chrono, PSE are a must. The rest is subjective.

As far as other cars, the V8 vantage is lovely, as is the R8. But IMHO, Poiund for Pound and Inch for Inch, I think the 911 is the better car. Cannot comment on the other marques.
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stokie1
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 23 Feb 2010
Posts: 276
Location: Staffs


PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

appreciate the comments thus far

it seems the 991 is a big step from the 997 and a true - loud sports car with pse

would appreciate others comments too
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MJA911
Indianapolis


Joined: 10 Dec 2013
Posts: 2381
Location: Berkshire

2010 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like you, I've had a couple of 997s and although by no means certain to do it, I aspire to a 991.1 4S coupe. I'm happy with the 997, so happy to wait and maybe see the cost to change closes some more. I will also check out the 981, not being a 911 shouldn't disqualify them IMO, being strictly 2 seats is valid reason though.

I had a 991.1 2S cab PDK for a week and base my comments on that.

- having never driven a 991 I am assuming the interior has moved on demonstrably as the 997 felt old 10 years ago
> I like the 997 interior (when it has full leather) it's compact and well screwed together, but the 991 is a great evolution in feel and ergonomics and whilst the centre console and dash seemed "big" to start with, I feel cossetted and comfortable soon after.

- does the 991 make a good noise - v important
> Yes, better than the equivalent 997.2 IMO, more raspy and the blips and overruns are great. Like others have said PSE is a major factor, but I suspect the 991.1 has a better sound to start with.

- ive only ever had manuals - how is the pdk?
> PDK is excellent on both, but even quicker on the 991, in sport mode its fantastic, I would always go for the paddle steering wheel.

- the s has 400 bhp? - noticeably quicker than the equivalent 997?
> With the extra power, faster PDK it is quicker, but the car is more refined overall and has "better" handling, so the extra speed you're doing is not as apparent.

- is it still a sports car or a tourer?
> I can see why for many who come from a 997 (or earlier) the 991 leans further towards being a GT, but taken in isolation it straddles both IMO.

- essential extras?
> To get the most out of the PDK, Sport Chrono and PSE, personally I would look for sports seats too and on a non-S car, PASM.

has anyone considered the following instead
- f type 5L
- f360
- aston
- R8

> Only the Aston, they seem to be good value to buy but I suspect running costs/depreciation could be painful and it's hard to see any of them as more satisfying than a 911.

Other comments: the up to 55k budget you mention could put you into a very nice C2 PDK with PSE, Sport Chrono, PASM or maybe a C2S, with a few miles on it, whereas it would buy you a hell of a 981, including a GTS. I would check that out to satisfy myself that I really did only want a 911.
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stokie1
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 23 Feb 2010
Posts: 276
Location: Staffs


PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

appreciate the knowledge guys

quick Q

does a 991 with pasm ride at the same height as the c2s?

I know the 997 s was lower than the none s - which made a big diff to the looks
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Rob325114
Monza


Joined: 12 Dec 2015
Posts: 221



PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 4:25 pm    Post subject: Re: 997 mover Reply with quote

I'm considering the move from a 997.1 C2S to a 991 C2S or C4S, so have done some research in this area... I have only been a passenger in the 991, never a driver.

stokie1 wrote:
- having never driven a 991 I am assuming the interior has moved on demonstrably as the 997 felt old 10 years ago


Yes, massively so. Your budget suggests you're looking at a 997.1 Turbo. Everything in the 991 will feel much more modern, from the Tech, through to the finishing.

stokie1 wrote:
- does the 991 make a good noise - v important


The 997.1 Turbo will have a more mute sound to any NA 911. The 991S with PSE sounds absolutely spectacular. Even at low speeds it grumbles along burping and popping.

stokie1 wrote:
- ive only ever had manuals - how is the pdk?


I understand the PDK is great as long as you get sport chrono - the sport button tells the car you're going to drive it like you stole it. It also helps to get the sports steering wheel with flappy paddles for when you want to do the gears yourself.

stokie1 wrote:
- the s has 400 bhp? - noticeably quicker than the equivalent 997?


Noticeably... Probably not. But it IS quicker - at least in a straight line. The 997 Turbo will feel like sitting on a rocket, however - that's a different ball game.

stokie1 wrote:
- is it still a sports car or a tourer?


This argument will run on for ages. In my view, it's not particularly bigger outside (we're talking a couple of inches in length) but feels noticeably bigger inside. It's a sports car

stokie1 wrote:
- essential extras?


Sports Chrono
PSE
Sports Steering Wheel with Paddles

stokie1 wrote:
has anyone considered the following instead

- f type 5L
- f360
- aston
- R8


Yep, I have considered and driven the F Type V8. It is a VERY fun car that packs tonnes of torque as soon as you touch the peddle. It's a theatrical car - that will purposely spit unburnt fuel into the hot exhaust - creating crackles and bangs that you won't see on a Porsche. Make sure you get the V8R rather than the V8S if you go down this route - I understand the earlier S had a lot of issues. The 911 is much more refined - and a better sports car, IMO.

stokie1 wrote:
what would you do?


If I wanted to go fast, and potential see some appreciation in value, 997 turbo.

If I wanted to get a modern, refined sports car with all the bells and whistles, i would get a 991 C2S/C4S

If I wanted something that sounds like the doors to hell just opened, and pushes the blood to the back of my head when accelerating, I'd get the V8R...
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stokie1
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 23 Feb 2010
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Location: Staffs


PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Appreciate your thoughts guys - will keep informed when I am buying
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MJA911
Indianapolis


Joined: 10 Dec 2013
Posts: 2381
Location: Berkshire

2010 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My understanding is the PASM cars sit 10mm lower than non-PASM, which doesn't sound much, but same as as you say with 997, it does make a visual difference and 20" wheels on a 991 fill the arches nicely.
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Monkeynutz
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 05 Oct 2016
Posts: 325
Location: Peterborough


PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I drove a 991.2 C4S and fell in love. Couldn't stretch so looked around for a good 991.1 C4S but nice ones were over 65k for the 2012/13 launch models and some of those had some strange specs. Enjoyed the drive of the 991.1 obviously it sounded better than the 3.0L turbo engines but the drive was very assured and confidence builds quickly when getting on it a bit. I am a large chap over 100Kg and 190cm and I had to put the seat forward a little in the 991 when I tested it. It's roomy and coming from BMW it felt perfect.

Bought a 997.2. It felt sportier, smaller in size both inside and out and I noticed it straight away. I fit comfortably but not as roomy as the 991. The 997 doesn't sound as good (both PSE) but it's still a sweet track. The 997 Turbos are rocket ships and very different experiences and my short experience in one frightened me fartless!

Between a 997 Turbo and a 991.1 only a drive in each will give you the answer. Completely different experiences. A 991.1 C2 is fast!

Options - IMHO (and very limited experience)

PDK - In a 997.2 its brilliant in a 991 it's fantastic.
Sport Chrono - Subjective? but in a manual wouldn't be a deal breaker to me. PDK wouldn't have one without it - Sport Plus is a riot!
PASM - Definitely
Bose - Meh! There's a flat-6 orchestra that plays behind you in a 911 and it's loud!
PCM - Night and day between a 991 and 997.1
Sports Seats Plus or 14 way etc? - Personal taste but i do like the shoulder bolsters and look of the sport plus seats, not fussed about electrics I am the only driver but nice to have I guess.
PSE - Definitely. If it's noise you are after the turbo might want for some aftermarket deep-pocket sweetness.
Glass Sunroof - Nice touch in a 991 and the switch fills a gap in the console in a 997 I would be looking for a solid roof.
Sports design steering wheel (Paddle shift) - Definitely
PDLS - No biggie but the PDLS is good
TPMS - I like it but it is something that costs to replace albeit not often.
PDCC - Never had it but the lower ride height looks nice, Portiacraft had a 991.1 C2S not long ago with PDCC worth the money and it looked gorgeous!
991 20" Carrera Sport Wheels - Yummy!
Cruise Control - Never used it
Auto Dimming Mirrors - Wish I had them on my 997, I really really miss these!

Think that covers some of them at least, enjoy your search. I know I did Smile

Edit Ooops - As for other cars only the F-Type Sport 400 has made me twitch a little recently and second hand the F-type is good value just not as good value as a 911 Wink
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T8
General
General


Joined: 29 Jun 2010
Posts: 12283
Location: Kent


PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 12:20 am    Post subject: Re: I've stopped dreaming about my next 911. Reply with quote

Purely by coincidence I wrote the following exactly a year ago today.


T8 wrote:
I had an excellent day at the Silverstone Porsche Experience Centre last week driving a 991.2S. In addition to getting some invaluable driver training nearly 2 hours in the driving seat gave me a great chance to thoroughly assess what I had thought would be my next 911 and the 150 mile drive each way in my current car proved to be a useful back-to-back comparison session.

I chose to forego the 0-60 and back to 0 opportunity that many experienced and spent extra time on the superb handling circuit, kick-plate and ice-hill. The opportunity to find how what happens to a 911 on black ice - with and without the different levels of PSM - was incredible and this bit, more than any other, I'd seriously recommend to anyone planning to drive their car all year round.



The 991S performed fantastically on the handling circuit and was a real joy to drive but it came across as a whole different car to any 996 or 997 I'd driven before but the traction and push from the rear made it clear that this is still undeniably a true 911 and a proper sports car. On the short test track where maximum speeds attainable are only c80 mph the car itself didn't feel any different to the 991.1S I'd driven previously. The power delivery was so linear that I certainly wouldn't have realised I was driving a Turbo and the interior was so similar to every 981/991 I'd driven before that I could have been driving any of them. As a car to drive regularly I'm convinced that any 981/991 would be superb and I doubt that the move to smaller capacity turbo-charged engines will put off buyers of new cars. I'm equally certain however that it'll be the last normally aspirated cars that will become the most sought after by enthusiasts.

Jumping back into my own car the mid-noughties style of the interior was significant. I've always thought of the pre-996 dash layouts as being ancient and that the 996/997 gave a nice blend of classic v modern. In reality, compared to a 991 they all just look 'old'. That's not a criticism but it is a fact. Many will prefer the pre-2012 look, and it probably suits the character of those cars, but it would definitely put me off buying a late 997 over an early 991 if prices were similar.

At the moment however all 981/991 cars are still significantly more expensive to buy than their equivalent predecessors and that is enough to reinforce my intention to 'stick' for at least another 12 months. With any luck a combination of holding values of the 997T and depreciation of an early 991C4S will mean that the 'cost to change' will get less.

More importantly, as a car to drive occasionally - as I do - the 997T remains special. The frustration of not being able to 'stretch her legs' very often is probably no different to what I would experience in any other 911 and the 21 mpg average when only doing 6k miles a year is palatable. My drive home from Silverstone underlined my thoughts that, whilst a Turbo can be driven like a Carrera, when conditions allow a Carrera can't perform like a Turbo.

I've always been one to think of my next car, often soon after I've just bought a current one, but sometimes there comes a time when those thoughts can be comfortably put on hold for a while.

That's where I am now.Smile



Cloud 9


One year/ 6k miles/ 2 EuroTrips later I still love my 997T BUT I'm really disappointed that the 'cost to change' from my car to a 9914S is still so massive. Mine hasn't gone down in value but it's only early 2wd non-S 991 cars that have fallen in price significantly in the last 12 months.

I'll enjoy 2017 but in my heart I am already thinking 'Roll on 2018'.
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Rob325114
Monza


Joined: 12 Dec 2015
Posts: 221



PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Monkeynutz wrote:
...looked around for a good 991.1 C4S but nice ones were over 65k for the 2012/13 launch models and some of those had some strange specs...


Outside of the strange specs, are there any other reasons that you wouldn't consider a launch car? I see the value on some of these as fairly good - but want to make sure I'm not looking at a lemon for some reason!
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Monkeynutz
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Joined: 05 Oct 2016
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rob325114 wrote:
Monkeynutz wrote:
...looked around for a good 991.1 C4S but nice ones were over 65k for the 2012/13 launch models and some of those had some strange specs...


Outside of the strange specs, are there any other reasons that you wouldn't consider a launch car? I see the value on some of these as fairly good - but want to make sure I'm not looking at a lemon for some reason!


No reason at all. I was focused very much on C4S at the time and some of those I saw at the OPC that appeared to be fairly good value in the scheme of things just had fairly low specs and when compared to a tidy well spec'd 2010/11 model I couldn't get excited by them. For example my local OPC had a racing yellow 2012 manual C4S for £67k with 40k miles and black sport wheels, PSE but missing other bits but the deal breaker for me was that it had the light grey/blue interior which for me just wasn't going to work, it did for someone eventually.
The 2012 991.1 C4S I considered at another OPC was £70k with 35k miles, it had PDK, no chrono but sunroof and 14 way electric seats so seemed a bit off to me. Other than that it was a lovely motor in Silver. It looked mint but at £20k more than the almost perfect spec MY2011 997.2 C4S sat next to it I was able to convince myself quickly that the 997 was a no brainer.

This was all because I was very much focused at the time on getting that sexy wide body booty so dismissed the other C2s early on. On reflection that was a mistake born out of ignorance. Live and learn but I have never regretted my eventual purchase.

The only real conflict I had was between that 997 and a 2012 991.1 C2S with 45k miles being sold by Portiacraft at the time, one with PDCC in agate grey i think for just under £60k which looked stunning but the extra 9k and no OPC warranty helped me decide on the 997.

I have noticed that good early 991.1s don't hang around for long at the reputable dealers and for good reason.

Hope that helps
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Rob325114
Monza


Joined: 12 Dec 2015
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Monkeynutz wrote:
Rob325114 wrote:
Monkeynutz wrote:
...looked around for a good 991.1 C4S but nice ones were over 65k for the 2012/13 launch models and some of those had some strange specs...


Outside of the strange specs, are there any other reasons that you wouldn't consider a launch car? I see the value on some of these as fairly good - but want to make sure I'm not looking at a lemon for some reason!


No reason at all. I was focused very much on C4S at the time and some of those I saw at the OPC that appeared to be fairly good value in the scheme of things just had fairly low specs and when compared to a tidy well spec'd 2010/11 model I couldn't get excited by them. For example my local OPC had a racing yellow 2012 manual C4S for £67k with 40k miles and black sport wheels, PSE but missing other bits but the deal breaker for me was that it had the light grey/blue interior which for me just wasn't going to work, it did for someone eventually.
The 2012 991.1 C4S I considered at another OPC was £70k with 35k miles, it had PDK, no chrono but sunroof and 14 way electric seats so seemed a bit off to me. Other than that it was a lovely motor in Silver. It looked mint but at £20k more than the almost perfect spec MY2011 997.2 C4S sat next to it I was able to convince myself quickly that the 997 was a no brainer.

This was all because I was very much focused at the time on getting that sexy wide body booty so dismissed the other C2s early on. On reflection that was a mistake born out of ignorance. Live and learn but I have never regretted my eventual purchase.

The only real conflict I had was between that 997 and a 2012 991.1 C2S with 45k miles being sold by Portiacraft at the time, one with PDCC in agate grey i think for just under £60k which looked stunning but the extra 9k and no OPC warranty helped me decide on the 997.

I have noticed that good early 991.1s don't hang around for long at the reputable dealers and for good reason.

Hope that helps


Thanks Monkeynutz - useful perspective.
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Waitaminute
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

First post here, though I have been in the shadows, learning, while plotting / planning my first Porsche.

I love the 991. It has been the first Porsche I have have really lusted after for a very long time. I dithered and faffed around for way too long before taking the plunge but I picked up a 991.1 C2S Auto two months ago and it is everything I hoped for and more.

I have spent no more than 15 minutes in a 997 and so can offer no useful perspective as regards the difference between the two. One point to make though.....

If you go PDK I strongly recommend Sports Chrono. It was not something I sought; it just happened to be on the car I found and tbh I didn't expect to use it much. In practice though, I hit the sports plus button whenever there's a safe opportunity. Subjective, of course, but to me sports plus mode transforms the car; the engine stays on cam, power delivery is instantaneous and the chassis just comes to life. I wouldn't like to be without it now.

ETA: If I have the hang of this forum thingy, there's a gratuitous picture below.
 



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MJA911
Indianapolis


Joined: 10 Dec 2013
Posts: 2381
Location: Berkshire

2010 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very sharp looking car, colour and wheel combo works really well. Just as my 991/981 desire was moderating a little, you make a post like that! Wink
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997.2 C4S cab PDK
Past: 993 C2 man, 997.1 C2S man, 996.1 C4 tip
 
  
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T8
General
General


Joined: 29 Jun 2010
Posts: 12283
Location: Kent


PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MJA911 wrote:


..................... Just as my 991/981 desire was moderating a little, you make a post like that! Wink



I had a similar issue this morning. Mr. Green


_________________
2007 Guards Red 997 Turbo Tiptronic
ex 2004 Polar Silver 996T Tiptronic
ex 2002 Seal Grey 996.2 C4 Tiptronic
ex 1978 Silver 924 Manual
 
  
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MJA911
Indianapolis


Joined: 10 Dec 2013
Posts: 2381
Location: Berkshire

2010 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I sympathise Terry Very Happy
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997.2 C4S cab PDK
Past: 993 C2 man, 997.1 C2S man, 996.1 C4 tip
 
  
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Sarllm
Trainee


Joined: 16 Oct 2011
Posts: 82



PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 2:21 pm    Post subject: Re: I've stopped dreaming about my next 911. Reply with quote

T8 wrote:
Purely by coincidence I wrote the following exactly a year ago today.


T8 wrote:
I had an excellent day at the Silverstone Porsche Experience Centre last week driving a 991.2S. In addition to getting some invaluable driver training nearly 2 hours in the driving seat gave me a great chance to thoroughly assess what I had thought would be my next 911 and the 150 mile drive each way in my current car proved to be a useful back-to-back comparison session.

I chose to forego the 0-60 and back to 0 opportunity that many experienced and spent extra time on the superb handling circuit, kick-plate and ice-hill. The opportunity to find how what happens to a 911 on black ice - with and without the different levels of PSM - was incredible and this bit, more than any other, I'd seriously recommend to anyone planning to drive their car all year round.



The 991S performed fantastically on the handling circuit and was a real joy to drive but it came across as a whole different car to any 996 or 997 I'd driven before but the traction and push from the rear made it clear that this is still undeniably a true 911 and a proper sports car. On the short test track where maximum speeds attainable are only c80 mph the car itself didn't feel any different to the 991.1S I'd driven previously. The power delivery was so linear that I certainly wouldn't have realised I was driving a Turbo and the interior was so similar to every 981/991 I'd driven before that I could have been driving any of them. As a car to drive regularly I'm convinced that any 981/991 would be superb and I doubt that the move to smaller capacity turbo-charged engines will put off buyers of new cars. I'm equally certain however that it'll be the last normally aspirated cars that will become the most sought after by enthusiasts.

Jumping back into my own car the mid-noughties style of the interior was significant. I've always thought of the pre-996 dash layouts as being ancient and that the 996/997 gave a nice blend of classic v modern. In reality, compared to a 991 they all just look 'old'. That's not a criticism but it is a fact. Many will prefer the pre-2012 look, and it probably suits the character of those cars, but it would definitely put me off buying a late 997 over an early 991 if prices were similar.

At the moment however all 981/991 cars are still significantly more expensive to buy than their equivalent predecessors and that is enough to reinforce my intention to 'stick' for at least another 12 months. With any luck a combination of holding values of the 997T and depreciation of an early 991C4S will mean that the 'cost to change' will get less.

More importantly, as a car to drive occasionally - as I do - the 997T remains special. The frustration of not being able to 'stretch her legs' very often is probably no different to what I would experience in any other 911 and the 21 mpg average when only doing 6k miles a year is palatable. My drive home from Silverstone underlined my thoughts that, whilst a Turbo can be driven like a Carrera, when conditions allow a Carrera can't perform like a Turbo.

I've always been one to think of my next car, often soon after I've just bought a current one, but sometimes there comes a time when those thoughts can be comfortably put on hold for a while.

That's where I am now.Smile



Cloud 9


One year/ 6k miles/ 2 EuroTrips later I still love my 997T BUT I'm really disappointed that the 'cost to change' from my car to a 9914S is still so massive. Mine hasn't gone down in value but it's only early 2wd non-S 991 cars that have fallen in price significantly in the last 12 months.

I'll enjoy 2017 but in my heart I am already thinking 'Roll on 2018'.


T8, I could've written your post myself!

I've been hankering for a 991 C4S for a year as well. I never had this much trouble upgrading my 997 4S to a 997 Turbo.

My worry is that by the time a 991 4S drops to my ideal price my Turbo will have dropped more! The devil in me thinks, just spend the 20k now it won't lose that much........!

(My 997.1 Turbo is currently worth about 4-6k more than I paid 4 years ago judging by AT etc).
 
  
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