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nigel99
Imola


Joined: 16 Jul 2015
Posts: 793
Location: Surrey

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 2S

PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:40 pm    Post subject: Is the 996 the ugly sister? Reply with quote

With no intention of upsetting any 996 owners, I just can't see this ever becoming a classic car.

The 993, 997 and 991 are things of beauty but the 996? I think the main issue is the headlight design which makes the thing just look dated, unfortunately I feel the same for the 986 boxster.

Am I missing something when looking at these cars? What are the real design points?
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Previous: 2008 Cayman 2.7, 2002 Audi TT, 1999 BMW 318!
 
  
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Gareth64
Trainee


Joined: 20 Mar 2016
Posts: 68
Location: United Kingdom


PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Is the 996 the ugly sister? Reply with quote

nigel99 wrote:
With no intention of upsetting any 996 owners, I just can't see this ever becoming a classic car.

The 993, 997 and 991 are things of beauty but the 996? I think the main issue is the headlight design which makes the thing just look dated, unfortunately I feel the same for the 986 boxster.

Am I missing something when looking at these cars? What are the real design points?


The front end divides opinion but the arse is better than a 997 (particularly with the turbo spoiler) and the 991 is big and bloated and doesn't have any exterior superior design points imo. The 993 is a beautiful shape. I'm a 996 turbo owner lol.
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Shurv
Albert Park


Joined: 09 Jan 2013
Posts: 1637
Location: Northampton


PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Everything is subjective. I love the look of 996's and think that 997's are dumpy and trying too hard to be retro 911's. 964's are much prettier than 993's and 991's are just too big. We all have an opinion, yours and mine differ and that is a good thing. Life would be boring if we all liked the same thing. I don't give a toss if 996's don't ever become classics, I love the way mine looks and drives (996 C4S), and will be keeping it forever, regardless of what it may or not ever be worth.
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Robertb
Zolder


Joined: 01 Sep 2003
Posts: 5854
Location: South Oxfordshire

2002 Porsche 996 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Disagree, obviously!

The 996 brought something new to the design line, not just water cooling (no sniggering at the back about engine failures!)

Swoopy, curvy lines inside and out with a nod back to its heritage, without aping it shamelessly. Just look at the door trims and instrument binnacle.

It introduced the 911 to a whole new customer base.

The range is clearly demarked with each looking very different- narrow body, 4S and Turbo. I would challenge even a dedicated Porsche spotter to tell the difference between a debadged 997 4S and a 2.

Personally, I really like the look of the 996. The fact that like for like 997s are selling for less than 996 4Ss shows that perhaps others agree.

But hey each to their own, that's what makes a market...
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"911- the guilt-free supercar"

Current: 2003 C4S Coupe, seal/black

Ex: '02 C4S Coupe, '96 993 Targa, '88 Carrera Sport Coupe
 
  
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Palladium
Watkins Glen


Joined: 01 Nov 2015
Posts: 2086



PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

none of the water cooled will be classics, why do people think that a 996 looks so different from a 997, the difference is minute.

the classic status died with the 993, last of the air, but as importantly in my book the last of the handmade, don't get me wrong, the water are desirable, ive had one, but compared to the original designs from the 60s,70,80s and 90s they don't come anywhere near.


of course, I could be wrong, just my view.
 
  
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madalaa
Yas Marina


Joined: 13 Mar 2008
Posts: 8253
Location: West London

1995 Porsche 993 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When the 996 was introduced I disliked the design especially the "poached/fried egg" headlights ......... but over the years my stance has somewhat softened ........ I think I could actually live with the design now ........ Smile
 
  
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Disco
Paul Ricard


Joined: 13 May 2008
Posts: 3415
Location: Hertfordshire

2010 Porsche 997 GT3

PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well - there is the obvious point that the 996 is (and will remain for a long while at least) the cheapest 911 available. However, I reckon that the early 996.1 (traditionally the least favoured) actually will gain classic status eventually. It looks and feels significantly smaller than the bloated and conspicuously stretched presence of the 991 for example, and is also the last analogue 911 (the 996.1 C2 has no traction or stability control, has a cable throttle, no fancy electronic damper control, etc...).

It has also fallen to a price so low that despite quite a high production - cars being parted and scrapped (and indeed being ran slowly into the ground on a shoestring budget) will bring the pool of good cars down to a much smaller size.
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Robertb
Zolder


Joined: 01 Sep 2003
Posts: 5854
Location: South Oxfordshire

2002 Porsche 996 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good points Disco.

Funny how times change. I remember the widebody 993s being roundly trashed by the motoring press for being 'tarts handbags' with a hard ride. Before that, everyone hated 964s with their big bumpers, dodgy DMFs and leaky engines.

The average 911 enthusiast probably still thinks the earth is flat.
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"911- the guilt-free supercar"

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Ex: '02 C4S Coupe, '96 993 Targa, '88 Carrera Sport Coupe
 
  
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alex yates
Fuji


Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 9655
Location: Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 5:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Is the 996 the ugly sister? Reply with quote

nigel99 wrote:

Am I missing something when looking at these cars? What are the real design points?


Following on from the 993 design, to quote a few (improvements):

Complete new body shell
Water cooled
30mm wider and 173mm longer
Structural stiffness of bodyshell up by 45% in torsion, and 50% in flexure
Drag coefficient was down to 0.3 from 0.33
New variocam system
6-speed transmission
Proper dashboard with centre console
Centrally mounted pedals in the footwell
Climate Control
Fully integrated headlight units

Smile
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Robertb
Zolder


Joined: 01 Sep 2003
Posts: 5854
Location: South Oxfordshire

2002 Porsche 996 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The main benefit of the design from Porsche's perspective was to enable them to build cars for less than they sold them for.

Financials were truly, truly dire for Porsche when they were designing the 996... the engineers had to beg to be given budget for a motorised rear spoiler. Its a remarkable achievement they came up with such a clean-sheet design.
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Current: 2003 C4S Coupe, seal/black

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lofi
Suzuka


Joined: 08 Jun 2009
Posts: 1028
Location: Surrey/Kent border

2001 Porsche 996 Turbo

PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the question is actually what do you mean by 'classic car'? The mega expensive old cars are of a value not just because of rarity but also because of some other X factor. Most old cars are just classics because of age. All Porsche fall into the latter category, perhaps with the exception of the Speedster where as a Ferrari 250 GTO would fall into the former definition.

So unless there is some other definition the 996 will become a classic car just like all 911s, due to age.
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------------------------------------
996 turbo tip
ex 944 2.5 manual
ex 964 C4
 
  
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Halcyon
Nürburgring


Joined: 02 Nov 2015
Posts: 497
Location: Somerset


PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Is the 996 the ugly sister?"

If you are saying that the 964 is Pippa to the 996 being Kate - then I can live with that. Thumb
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Ursa911
Hockenheim


Joined: 17 Feb 2016
Posts: 666
Location: Farningham, Kent


PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some say 986 & 996 saved Porsche. Without my car you wouldn't have your car, be thankful Smile

As someone said above the 996 has a better looking butt. T8 has previously said at a Kent breakfast meet, comparing the bumper lines of the 996 & 997 he prefers the rear of the 996, just a shame his 997 turbo will always be in front of my 996 C4S.
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alex yates
Fuji


Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 9655
Location: Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ursa911 wrote:
Some say 986 & 996 saved Porsche.


It's fact.
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Osh
Watkins Glen


Joined: 19 Nov 2012
Posts: 2048
Location: Bristol


PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 5:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Is the 996 the ugly sister? Reply with quote

nigel99 wrote:
With no intention of upsetting any 996 owners, I just can't see this ever becoming a classic car.

The 993, 997 and 991 are things of beauty but the 996? I think the main issue is the headlight design which makes the thing just look dated, unfortunately I feel the same for the 986 boxster.

Am I missing something when looking at these cars? What are the real design points?


BURN THE HEATHEN....!!!

Floor Floor Floor


I love my 996 and think it is beautiful.

Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder.


Osh
 
  
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kas750
Paul Ricard


Joined: 31 Mar 2013
Posts: 3054
Location: lancashire

2006 Porsche 911

PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 996!!!! Yuk!..A hateful thing on every level and frankly an embarrassment to be seen in and with a chocolate engine to boot..why bother?
 
  
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kas750
Paul Ricard


Joined: 31 Mar 2013
Posts: 3054
Location: lancashire

2006 Porsche 911

PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

....and another thing...






















If anyone is selling an aerokitted 996.1 pm me..cash waiting. Grin Mr. Green
 
  
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Harv
Österreich


Joined: 18 Sep 2014
Posts: 922



PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the 996.1 is looking 'claasic' already and there's certainly nothing wrong with the 996 C4S. To my eye the 993 looks awkward with the unchanged roof line that somehow dosent suit the updated skirts and bumpers?

Anyway Porsche are just about to bring ugly sister out http://www.caranddriver.com/news/2020-porsche-992-911-spy-photos-news

but open the link with caution as I was sickened when I saw this. Probably too late for them to do too much about its styling either

Dont know
 
  
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Palladium
Watkins Glen


Joined: 01 Nov 2015
Posts: 2086



PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harv wrote:
I think the 996.1 is looking 'claasic' already and there's certainly nothing wrong with the 996 C4S. To my eye the 993 looks awkward with the unchanged roof line that somehow dosent suit the updated skirts and bumpers?

Anyway Porsche are just about to bring ugly sister out http://www.caranddriver.com/news/2020-porsche-992-911-spy-photos-news

but open the link with caution as I was sickened when I saw this. Probably too late for them to do too much about its styling either

Dont know



just a 996 with a bodykit
 
  
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Ursa911
Hockenheim


Joined: 17 Feb 2016
Posts: 666
Location: Farningham, Kent


PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

alex yates wrote:
Ursa911 wrote:
Some say 986 & 996 saved Porsche.


It's fact.


I knew that but was wording it cautiously as there's always someone who would argue black is white.

I love my 996 so much so I'm now looking for another, a brother to cab but a coupe this time.
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