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marconorth
Monza


Joined: 06 Jul 2015
Posts: 194
Location: Cumbria


PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 3:56 pm    Post subject: Lowering project 997.1 Turb - Geometry Reply with quote

Ok guys, I've decided to embark on a lowering project as soon as I take my 997.1TT off SORN in April or May. Can't live with the 45mm gap between tyre and arch any longer!

After much deliberation my plan is to use Eibach (20mm drop) springs.
As for spacers> If I'm happy with the look after lowering alone then I'll leave it at that. In the past I've found that the amount of road crap slung back from the tyres after even modest spacing can be a real issue. Bearing in mind that my car is black too Laughing

As soon as I'm lowered I'll obviously need to have my Geometry done to dial out the negative camber.
Those of you who've done this, (and anyone else in the know) have you opted to have your cars...

1) Set back to stock factory tolerances or

2) Set up to the fast road configuration which I've seem mentioned on this forum??

Finally, where can i find a table/chart that i can present to a Geo specialist that clearly defines these various settings?
I've had a trawl around the net but haven't been able to find this info yet.

Btw...I don't do track driving. Its all road use for me, and occasionally spirited as the say Smile
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Chrispm355
Trainee


Joined: 08 Jul 2015
Posts: 89
Location: Essex


PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I used eibach springs and 7mm front and 15mm rear spacers. Ride quality barely changed. Looked great; mine was black/black too!

I didn't got round to it but I think gt2 geo was meant to be best.
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Boba fett
Kyalami


Joined: 14 May 2015
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chrispm355 wrote:
I used eibach springs and 7mm front and 15mm rear spacers. Ride quality barely changed. Looked great; mine was black/black too!

I didn't got round to it but I think gt2 geo was meant to be best.


Mines lowered with 15mm spacers all-round and I've got the GT2 (might even be GT2 RS) Geo on mine.
 
  
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Martian
Magny-Cours


Joined: 18 Mar 2009
Posts: 2699
Location: Bury St. Edmunds

2007 Porsche 997 Turbo

PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have standard suspension, and that can be a pain with speed humps and slight inclines, so personally wouldn't go the lowering route myself. I had my custom geo' done a few years ago and the understeer is eradicated. Oversteer is now the order of the day and can be easily controlled on the throttle, the setup is perfect for me but others may not like it.

Geo' settings attached.
 



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marconorth
Monza


Joined: 06 Jul 2015
Posts: 194
Location: Cumbria


PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Martian wrote:
I have standard suspension, and that can be a pain with speed humps and slight inclines, so personally wouldn't go the lowering route myself. I had my custom geo' done a few years ago and the understeer is eradicated. Oversteer is now the order of the day and can be easily controlled on the throttle, the setup is perfect for me but others may not like it.

Geo' settings attached.


So just to be clear, you're saying that your car isn't lowered at all and you experience occasional front lip scrapes?

Thanks for those standard (tweaked) geo measurements.
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Boba fett
Kyalami


Joined: 14 May 2015
Posts: 1766



PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

marconorth wrote:
Martian wrote:
I have standard suspension, and that can be a pain with speed humps and slight inclines, so personally wouldn't go the lowering route myself. I had my custom geo' done a few years ago and the understeer is eradicated. Oversteer is now the order of the day and can be easily controlled on the throttle, the setup is perfect for me but others may not like it.

Geo' settings attached.


So just to be clear, you're saying that your car isn't lowered at all and you experience occasional front lip scrapes?

Thanks for those standard (tweaked) geo measurements.



When lowered, they can be a pain, mines got the lower Aero spoiler as well, all's been well so far.

Personally I can't drive around in a 911 Turbo that you can stick a fist in the wheel arch gap and looks like its on stilts, so I will live with the consequences.
 
  
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Martian
Magny-Cours


Joined: 18 Mar 2009
Posts: 2699
Location: Bury St. Edmunds

2007 Porsche 997 Turbo

PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To reaffirm, my car isn't lowered and I do occasionally scrape the front lip, I replace it every couple of years or so.

My driveway is on a slight incline and I'll catch it if I don't go in at a certain angle. There's also a road I frequently use that has a 'double bump' that'll catch the lip at anything over 25mph, barely feel it in my daily driver. Then there are the speed humps, high kerbs etc....

I like the standard Turbo stance, certainly doesn't look like it's 'on stilts' as Boba states. Lowering a car also affects the bounce and return of the suspension, I just couldn't live with that on our UK roads.

I'd try before I buy. Smile
 
  
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Boba fett
Kyalami


Joined: 14 May 2015
Posts: 1766



PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Martian wrote:
To reaffirm, my car isn't lowered and I do occasionally scrape the front lip, I replace it every couple of years or so.

My driveway is on a slight incline and I'll catch it if I don't go in at a certain angle. There's also a road I frequently use that has a 'double bump' that'll catch the lip at anything over 25mph, barely feel it in my daily driver. Then there are the speed humps, high kerbs etc....

I like the standard Turbo stance, certainly doesn't look like it's 'on stilts' as Boba states. Lowering a car also affects the bounce and return of the suspension, I just couldn't live with that on our UK roads.

I'd try before I buy. Smile


I would try it to, "bounce and return" nonsense. Mine made hardly no difference at all to the ride quality apart from being much sharper and look much better. Yes you can catch the front on speed bumps or if you access your drive via a ski slope.

There is lots of posts whereby people say the standard ride height and wheel arch gap is to much, so its not just me.
 
  
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marconorth
Monza


Joined: 06 Jul 2015
Posts: 194
Location: Cumbria


PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Boba fett wrote:
Martian wrote:
To reaffirm, my car isn't lowered and I do occasionally scrape the front lip, I replace it every couple of years or so.

My driveway is on a slight incline and I'll catch it if I don't go in at a certain angle. There's also a road I frequently use that has a 'double bump' that'll catch the lip at anything over 25mph, barely feel it in my daily driver. Then there are the speed humps, high kerbs etc....

I like the standard Turbo stance, certainly doesn't look like it's 'on stilts' as Boba states. Lowering a car also affects the bounce and return of the suspension, I just couldn't live with that on our UK roads.

I'd try before I buy. Smile


I would try it to, "bounce and return" nonsense. Mine made hardly no difference at all to the ride quality apart from being much sharper and look much better. Yes you can catch the front on speed bumps or if you access your drive via a ski slope.

There is lots of posts whereby people say the standard ride height and wheel arch gap is to much, so its not just me.


You could throw a party in the huge void under my arches!
Never had any issues with the stock splitter scraping. Measured inside my garage it is 6 1/2" clear of the ground, so lowered another 20mm shouldn't theoretically be a disaster.
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Turbojim997
Nürburgring


Joined: 29 Mar 2015
Posts: 386
Location: Poole


PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would definitely get it lowered asap. Improve handling, looks loads better and even on dorsets finest (read crappest) roads I scrape very rarely. In fact I was in OPC the other week and very minor scrapes underneath most being the little bits that stick duct after the front brake ducts..

I went down the coil over route but my car is pretty low. As for comfort the standard pasm set up is so woefully inadequate on UK roads I have only got improvement in both comfort and performance.

Photo below shows current ride height;

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rabbitstew
Nürburgring


Joined: 21 Aug 2015
Posts: 427



PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Martian wrote:
To reaffirm, my car isn't lowered and I do occasionally scrape the front lip, I replace it every couple of years or so.

My driveway is on a slight incline and I'll catch it if I don't go in at a certain angle. There's also a road I frequently use that has a 'double bump' that'll catch the lip at anything over 25mph, barely feel it in my daily driver. Then there are the speed humps, high kerbs etc....


I have the same issue. The speed ramps outside of my work dont look too big but my front lip will scrap unless im doing 0.001mph over them. Likewise, at home, my drive seem to slope more one side than the other, even though its not visible to the eye. If I hit the drive wrong it will scrape. I also have to be wary when parking front first into parking spaces where there might be a kerb otherwise it will scrape again...

However, I do think the stock car does look better with some lowering springs, however due to the problems above I have left mine stock.
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marconorth
Monza


Joined: 06 Jul 2015
Posts: 194
Location: Cumbria


PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Really surprised to hear that so many are scraping without being lowered! There are some pretty rough roads up in in Cumbria but i can't recall scraping mine once. Maybe mine is sitting even higher the normal standard! Surprised
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marconorth
Monza


Joined: 06 Jul 2015
Posts: 194
Location: Cumbria


PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Turbojim997 wrote:
I would definitely get it lowered asap. Improve handling, looks loads better and even on dorsets finest (read crappest) roads I scrape very rarely. In fact I was in OPC the other week and very minor scrapes underneath most being the little bits that stick duct after the front brake ducts..

I went down the coil over route but my car is pretty low. As for comfort the standard pasm set up is so woefully inadequate on UK roads I have only got improvement in both comfort and performance.

Photo below shows current ride height;


Yes your ride height is about where i want to be Jimmy
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basildon993
Montreal


Joined: 11 Dec 2008
Posts: 624
Location: Sussex


PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

marconorth wrote:
Measured inside my garage it is 6 1/2" clear of the ground, so lowered another 20mm shouldn't theoretically be a disaster.


Just measured my lowered Turbo and it is 4 1/4" (approx 110mm) from the bottom of the front splitter to the ground measured on the centreline of the car. So nearly 60mm lower than yours! Surprised It scrapes quite a bit!!! But it looks the dogs. thumbsup

It is on -20mm springs which actually lowered it 25mm when measured at the wheel arch centres. Running 9mm front spacers and 15mm rear spacers which work very well together IMHO. Once my car was lowered and the geo set the wheel spacers became a necessity as the additional negative camber my car is set up with pushed the top of the tyre in too far, so the wheels looked a little lost in the arches!
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marconorth
Monza


Joined: 06 Jul 2015
Posts: 194
Location: Cumbria


PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

basildon993 wrote:
marconorth wrote:
Measured inside my garage it is 6 1/2" clear of the ground, so lowered another 20mm shouldn't theoretically be a disaster.


Just measured my lowered Turbo and it is 4 1/4" (approx 110mm) from the bottom of the front splitter to the ground measured on the centreline of the car. So nearly 60mm lower than yours! Surprised It scrapes quite a bit!!! But it looks the dogs. thumbsup

It is on -20mm springs which actually lowered it 25mm when measured at the wheel arch centres. Running 9mm front spacers and 15mm rear spacers which work very well together IMHO. Once my car was lowered and the geo set the wheel spacers became a necessity as the additional negative camber my car is set up with pushed the top of the tyre in too far, so the wheels looked a little lost in the arches!


Thanks! So presumably you have the fast road setup?
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basildon993
Montreal


Joined: 11 Dec 2008
Posts: 624
Location: Sussex


PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

marconorth wrote:
basildon993 wrote:
marconorth wrote:
Measured inside my garage it is 6 1/2" clear of the ground, so lowered another 20mm shouldn't theoretically be a disaster.


Just measured my lowered Turbo and it is 4 1/4" (approx 110mm) from the bottom of the front splitter to the ground measured on the centreline of the car. So nearly 60mm lower than yours! Surprised It scrapes quite a bit!!! But it looks the dogs. thumbsup

It is on -20mm springs which actually lowered it 25mm when measured at the wheel arch centres. Running 9mm front spacers and 15mm rear spacers which work very well together IMHO. Once my car was lowered and the geo set the wheel spacers became a necessity as the additional negative camber my car is set up with pushed the top of the tyre in too far, so the wheels looked a little lost in the arches!


Thanks! So presumably you have the fast road setup?


Yup 'fast road' whatever that means? Question It was set up by Parrs who fitted the springs. Definitely more negative camber, no under steer and better high speed stability seem to be the pluses.
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DeathStar
Barcelona


Joined: 19 Apr 2012
Posts: 1456
Location: Inside the event horizon

2006 Porsche 997 Turbo

PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you're going down the lowering route with springs then I can recommend the TechArt springs - by far and away the best out of the available options (e.g. H&R, Eibach) ... they lower by 20mm, don't sag after a few months, and have been specifically engineered to emulate the standard ride comfort whilst achieving the required lowering (look great too!)
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marconorth
Monza


Joined: 06 Jul 2015
Posts: 194
Location: Cumbria


PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DeathStar wrote:
If you're going down the lowering route with springs then I can recommend the TechArt springs - by far and away the best out of the available options (e.g. H&R, Eibach) ... they lower by 20mm, don't sag after a few months, and have been specifically engineered to emulate the standard ride comfort whilst achieving the required lowering (look great too!)


I believe Eibach make the springs for Techart but to a slightly different spec to the ones branded 'Eibach'

15-20mm drop TechArt
20-25mm Eibach
25+mm H&R's

Not sure if anywhere (Uk or Europe) still sells the Techarts Deathstar???
Possibly discontinued!
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DeathStar
Barcelona


Joined: 19 Apr 2012
Posts: 1456
Location: Inside the event horizon

2006 Porsche 997 Turbo

PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

marconorth wrote:
DeathStar wrote:
If you're going down the lowering route with springs then I can recommend the TechArt springs - by far and away the best out of the available options (e.g. H&R, Eibach) ... they lower by 20mm, don't sag after a few months, and have been specifically engineered to emulate the standard ride comfort whilst achieving the required lowering (look great too!)


I believe Eibach make the springs for Techart but to a slightly different spec to the ones branded 'Eibach'

15-20mm drop TechArt
20-25mm Eibach
25+mm H&R's

Not sure if anywhere (Uk or Europe) still sells the Techarts Deathstar???
Possibly discontinued!


Speak to Tech9

http://www.tech9.ms/

Eibach do make the TechArt springs, but to the specs that TechArt developed independently - and the difference is well worth the time/effort spent in pursuing the TechArt versions ...
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marconorth
Monza


Joined: 06 Jul 2015
Posts: 194
Location: Cumbria


PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 12:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for throwing the TechArt springs into the mix. The drop seems about perfect for usability and comfort. I'll give Tech9 a call in due course Thumb
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