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996 GT3 vs 997 GT3

phil84afc

Well-known member
Joined
24 Feb 2010
Messages
158
Hello chaps,

Looking for some advice on the above if possible, as I'm seriously contemplating selling my cars (and adding some cash) to make the above happen but have never owned a "hardcore" Porsche before. I know the Metzger engines are amazing and it will only be used as a toy (maybe the odd cross continent trip) but what are they like to actually live with?

Clearly there is a difference in power and internal build quality between the 996 and 997 but there is also a price difference of the thick end of £20k between the two and I'm wondering if anyone has opinions on bang for your buck on these models. I have seen a few £65k-£70k 996s that look great but would love anyone's opinion that owns 1 (or even owned both) to point me in the right direction. Is a 996 GT3 all you'll ever need or is there a big difference between the 2 types?

I specifically want a GT3, the appeal of bonkers power in a turbo doesn't appeal to me as I want a manual N/A car to keep for a long time, mileage unimportant.

Thanks in advance :thumbs:
 
The answer is that it all depends!

It depends on what you are comfortable with in terms of the effort required to drive it - the 996 requires more concentration and is a more raw & unfiltered drive than the 997 which is a softer car more suited to road driving with more refinement & a bit less involvement. Having said that, I've done 125K miles in my 996 and only a small fraction of that in my 997 so you can see where my bias lies...

The 997 is a more refined package, of that there's no doubt. It comes with TC & PSM and switchable damping none of which was even available on the 996. Looks is another thing that polarises opinion and may be important to you. The cabin in the 996 is pretty dated & basic compared to the plusher 997 if that sort of thing is important to you.

Ultimately, you need to go & drive both models (preferably several of each as they are very sensitive to setup) and decide.
 
The simple answer is go drive them both. Then you can make a decision. Very little difference in power between a 7 or 6. 6 more raw and no aids 7 more civilised and better on road.
 
I agree with Nick and Cunno, it depends on what's most important for you

For me I never considered a 996 as I couldn't get past the looks, the 997 just had the best combination looks and the drive is/was great

I still think the 997 has the best combination of looks and drive, I like the look of the 991 for example, but it's just a teeny bit too big and bloated... but that's off topic

Good luck with the search :thumb:
 
I like the 991 but I don't like the price! Ultimately, being used to the creature comforts and build quality of a ".2" generation car, I would prefer a 997 (.1 due to price) but in the right colour, the 996 looks awesome. There is a red one for sale at the moment for £70k and I love it, I'm just concerned it will be a little too hardcore for me and given the cost, don't want to make a mistake.

I have never requested a test drive on a car at this price level (most I've spent on a car is £35k) are dealers funny about this, i.e. if I turn up to test drive a GT3 in my Cayman would they think I'm more serious or does that not make a difference? Having only owned lower end Porsches, my knowledge in this sector is pretty limited...
 
There's a red 996.2 on sale at the moment which has been bent and dealer hasn't been declared so check PH GT3 avoidance thread before viewing.
As for dealer ring them and book test drive will always help
 
phil84afc said:
I like the 991 but I don't like the price! Ultimately, being used to the creature comforts and build quality of a ".2" generation car, I would prefer a 997 (.1 due to price) but in the right colour, the 996 looks awesome. There is a red one for sale at the moment for £70k and I love it, I'm just concerned it will be a little too hardcore for me and given the cost, don't want to make a mistake.

I have never requested a test drive on a car at this price level (most I've spent on a car is £35k) are dealers funny about this, i.e. if I turn up to test drive a GT3 in my Cayman would they think I'm more serious or does that not make a difference? Having only owned lower end Porsches, my knowledge in this sector is pretty limited...

The key point is to settle on which type of GT3

Based on the prices you have quote, Gen 1 996 GT3 and Gen 2 996 GT3 are within your budget

997 over 996 there was a step up in fit and finish

997 GT3 Gen 1 cars start from £75k but are realistically in the £80k bracket and 997 Gen 2 cars are £100k+

there are still bargains to be found http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=118192

but maybe not that red one http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?p=1281000#1281000

caveat emptor
 
phil84afc said:
I have never requested a test drive on a car at this price level (most I've spent on a car is £35k) are dealers funny about this, i.e. if I turn up to test drive a GT3 in my Cayman would they think I'm more serious or does that not make a difference? Having only owned lower end Porsches, my knowledge in this sector is pretty limited...

Anyone dropping £70K on a car will be expecting a test drive. Any dealer that makes this a chore will be a ballache to deal with should you decide to buy so no great loss to move on to another car.
 
Okay - with over half a decade in each I will pitch in on this one.

The simple bit is that the 997 is a better road car out of the box (and is also easier to drive). On the 996 you should immediately have the geometry changed to something not much like factory settings and then they are closer, but at factory settings it is safely understeary and somewhat less fun.

Engine wise there is a big difference in the torque curve with the 3.8 in the 997.2 that makes it much more drivable for day to day use but the gen 1 is more like the 996.

The chassis differences are a bit more relevant. Firstly of course the 996 has no traction or stability control at all, the 997.1 just traction control and the 997.2 has traction and stability. On track you really will want to turn all of that off anyway (otherwise it devours your rear brakes and upsets the balance), but if you find yourself out in the wrong weather on the wrong tyres you might consider it a factor. The other big 996-997 chassis difference is that the former has passive dampers whereas the latter has PASM. As a road car the PASM is fine, but to be honest on track the passive ones would be my preference even though the factory ones are a bit skittish and fidgety on bumpier surfaces. Another factor is that the differential is more aggressive on the 996, which (assuming that the plates haven't worn out) gives you better on track traction in exchange for worse low speed road manners (and an even more pronounced tendency to try and make you stall reversing around corners).

The interior is generally regarded as a 997 strongpoint, but there is more in it to consider. The 996 has the best bucket seats (the folding ones available on the 997.2 come second {both fit the majority of people} and the fixed ones introduced on the 997.1 are only for people not only slim hipped, but also narrow shouldered). But it doesn't have an oil temperature gauge, so you will have to learn to feel for when it is up to temperature (the feel of the gearbox is the purist's indicator of choice). The 996 also has the (default) option of the lower dashboard delete - IMHO with it deleted the 996 has the better ergonomics but with it in place I would favour the 997. The 997 has the option of the factory TPMS tyre pressure monitoring system (though it wasn't standard until the gen 2 and is very rare on gen 1 cars) which despite its foibles I would always favour. Other than that though it only matters if you were looking at the 997 gen 2 : its navigation system is not only much, much better than the gen 1, but is also usually specified with audio inputs (which talk to line, USB or iPhone) and bluetooth handsfree for your phone. The PCM console in the gen 1 meanwhile isn't something that I would choose over the CDR23 in the 996.

What else... I prefer the gearstick in the 997 - fits nicer into my hand and the shifter is metal bushed rather than plastic in the 996, but frankly that is not a difficult or expensive thing to fix. Another tiny thing that still resonates with me is that you don't have to push the clutch to start a 996 (so on a track day you can just reach in and fire up the car, which was an adjustment to me when I switched but more than that it makes it immune to the clutch sensor failure on the 997 which is minor but irritatingly common).

So - if I were you : which would I buy? If you can get a 997.2 I would, but if it were 996 vs 997.1 I would go with the 996 personally. I still get very nostalgic about my old one...

Hope that is of some use.

As for test drives - depends upon the dealer. A lot of them try to size up whether you are a serious buyer or a test pilot and can be... not as you would hope to expect. That said - if you rock up in a Porsche and speak like someone who has clearly done their homework then a test drive shouldn't be an issue.

:thumb:
 
Peter at Centre Gravity said the 996 GT3 is a track car you can drive on the road whereas the 997 is a road car you can drive on the track.
 
Pretty comprehensive write up Disco - OP won't get much better than that :thumbs:
 
The chassis on 996 & 997 are very similar. And on GT cars the drivetrain is remarkably similar.

Put the styling and modernity of interior to one side for a second and the fundamental difference between the two is the dampers. This is where all the "hardcore" "softcore" stuff comes from IMHO. Depending on your use both standard suspension types are compromised. Many circuit driven 996's get a suspension change to something more adjustable (for both hard and soft) less thus far on 997 probably due to the age of the cars but increasingly so.

The 997 is a more "comfortable" road car when you leave the PASM in normal but i still wouldn't really want one as daily drive, its still a car designed to work the best at 7/10ths and above.
 
Disco said:
Okay - with over half a decade in each I will pitch in on this one.

The simple bit is that the 997 is a better road car out of the box (and is also easier to drive). On the 996 you should immediately have the geometry changed to something not much like factory settings and then they are closer, but at factory settings it is safely understeary and somewhat less fun.

Engine wise there is a big difference in the torque curve with the 3.8 in the 997.2 that makes it much more drivable for day to day use but the gen 1 is more like the 996.

The chassis differences are a bit more relevant. Firstly of course the 996 has no traction or stability control at all, the 997.1 just traction control and the 997.2 has traction and stability. On track you really will want to turn all of that off anyway (otherwise it devours your rear brakes and upsets the balance), but if you find yourself out in the wrong weather on the wrong tyres you might consider it a factor. The other big 996-997 chassis difference is that the former has passive dampers whereas the latter has PASM. As a road car the PASM is fine, but to be honest on track the passive ones would be my preference even though the factory ones are a bit skittish and fidgety on bumpier surfaces. Another factor is that the differential is more aggressive on the 996, which (assuming that the plates haven't worn out) gives you better on track traction in exchange for worse low speed road manners (and an even more pronounced tendency to try and make you stall reversing around corners).

The interior is generally regarded as a 997 strongpoint, but there is more in it to consider. The 996 has the best bucket seats (the folding ones available on the 997.2 come second {both fit the majority of people} and the fixed ones introduced on the 997.1 are only for people not only slim hipped, but also narrow shouldered). But it doesn't have an oil temperature gauge, so you will have to learn to feel for when it is up to temperature (the feel of the gearbox is the purist's indicator of choice). The 996 also has the (default) option of the lower dashboard delete - IMHO with it deleted the 996 has the better ergonomics but with it in place I would favour the 997. The 997 has the option of the factory TPMS tyre pressure monitoring system (though it wasn't standard until the gen 2 and is very rare on gen 1 cars) which despite its foibles I would always favour. Other than that though it only matters if you were looking at the 997 gen 2 : its navigation system is not only much, much better than the gen 1, but is also usually specified with audio inputs (which talk to line, USB or iPhone) and bluetooth handsfree for your phone. The PCM console in the gen 1 meanwhile isn't something that I would choose over the CDR23 in the 996.

What else... I prefer the gearstick in the 997 - fits nicer into my hand and the shifter is metal bushed rather than plastic in the 996, but frankly that is not a difficult or expensive thing to fix. Another tiny thing that still resonates with me is that you don't have to push the clutch to start a 996 (so on a track day you can just reach in and fire up the car, which was an adjustment to me when I switched but more than that it makes it immune to the clutch sensor failure on the 997 which is minor but irritatingly common).

So - if I were you : which would I buy? If you can get a 997.2 I would, but if it were 996 vs 997.1 I would go with the 996 personally. I still get very nostalgic about my old one...

Hope that is of some use.

As for test drives - depends upon the dealer. A lot of them try to size up whether you are a serious buyer or a test pilot and can be... not as you would hope to expect. That said - if you rock up in a Porsche and speak like someone who has clearly done their homework then a test drive shouldn't be an issue.

:thumb:

Lovely write up Disco!

Can I just ask one thing? I didn't know about having to push the clutch in on the 997. Why's that?

Cheers
 
Senoj said:
The chassis on 996 & 997 are very similar. And on GT cars the drivetrain is remarkably similar.

Put the styling and modernity of interior to one side for a second and the fundamental difference between the two is the dampers. This is where all the "hardcore" "softcore" stuff comes from IMHO. Depending on your use both standard suspension types are compromised. Many circuit driven 996's get a suspension change to something more adjustable (for both hard and soft) less thus far on 997 probably due to the age of the cars but increasingly so.

The 997 is a more "comfortable" road car when you leave the PASM in normal but i still wouldn't really want one as daily drive, its still a car designed to work the best at 7/10ths and above.

Agree with the above, I tried using my 997 GT3 as a daily when I first got it, but gave up after a few months. I bought the car in June 2011 and by October I had bought a Fiat 500 to use as a daily. I couldn't imagine a 996 GT3 as a daily at all in this context, I probably would've last 1 month! So yes 997 GT3 is probably 'more' of a road car than a 996 GT3, but let's not fool ourselves into thinking either is a proper comfortable road car that you can use 24/7 for everything. That's what the Carrera is for.
 

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