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Welcome to Hartech, the UK's leading Independent Porsche engine specialists, located in Bolton, UK

C4s brake options

D

Drybeer

Trainee
Joined
7 Feb 2016
Messages
88
Hi. Next job for me is front brakes. I use the car for normal to fast road use but a trip to the Nürburgring is scheduled for May. So I want something up to the job but not an out and out track pad.

Thoughts on these from Design 911? Set of front Brembo discs, pads, sensors and shims for £275? Are these likely to be close to OEM std?

http://www.design911.co.uk/fu/prod1...ake-Disc-Package-Porsche-996-C4S---996-Turbo/

Thanks.
 
I believe the best setup is to move to the Cayenne gen1 6 pot front calipers, pads (and maybe discs? Needs confirming). These are also shared with the early Touareg I think so maybe a cheaper option.

It requires some work, machining of the calipers, mounts made etc but then you can run £30 crappy pad sets and have ultimate stopping power.

If I can find (or someone cares to post proper) details I will post them up.



:thumb:
 
I see your point Harv but a few thoughts:
Do you need more stopping power?
Will those calipers on the front upset the braking balance?
Will the increase in unsprung weight spoil the ride/handling?

Mike
 
The std pads will last you a lap on the ring, by the 2nd one they gonna be at the temp. that your pads will give up and you will end your 2nd lap with cooked brakes and your fun is over.

C4s use very good setup (not as good as the 6pot version) as they use much bigger front calipers then C4 or C2.
If you want to upgrade without changing capliers then you can use spacers and 350mm discs (997 discs) front and back (pm me if interested).
All you need are good pads just for the track and the make and compound depends on how good your are and how hard you gonna push.
2nd thought is a price tag, stop looking at it otherwise what's the point of doing the track anyway?
So get yourself 2 sets of pads one for road and one just for the track.

Make sure you overhaul your calipers with new seals as sticky calipers with worn seals (anything that is 5 year old or has 50K on them) will generate much more heat as there is a contact of pads and discs for longer due to the pistons not returning while you get the brakes off.
Many never even look at it as this is not mention in the service book, but you'll be surprise what you could find.
 
Thanks. All good advice - I don't intend thrashing the car so suspect std calipers and discs will be fine. Perhaps just resign myself to running at a reasonable pace and saving brakes as opposed to being an arse and cooking them.
 
Still std pads will fail and you will do more harm to the whole braking setup then few quid for track pads.
Get yourself DS2500 which are £250 front and back.
On any track day you MUST run upgraded pads.

Thomas
 
Pro Calipers said:
Still std pads will fail and you will do more harm to the whole braking setup then few quid for track pads.
Get yourself DS2500 which are £250 front and back.
On any track day you MUST run upgraded pads.

Thomas
Click to expand...

Good advice!

Don't forget to change your brake fluid too, preferably to a spec more suited to increased and prolonged heat.
 
Thanks for advice, I've found those Ferodo ones at various online sellers.

Question: Do I need the anti squeal shims and where do I get them from and will they work with the brake wear indicators?

If they don't work with the brake wear indicator wires will this constantly give a dash warning?

Thanks again,

AD.
 
A couple of years ago I took my CLK around the 'ring.
I didn't rag it as I'd never driven around the circuit before - but I still managed to cook the brakes to the point where I struggled to stop when I got back to the carpark! :eek:

So i would follow the advice to get your brakes checked, fluid changed and get good pads. Because you're going to be taking advantage of the autobahn while you're there too, aren't you? :thumb:
 
If you don't have a significant amount of experience on the 'ring then you will be perfectly okay on the stock brake setup. If you really know what you are doing then upgrading your brake fluid to race spec would be in order (Castrol SRF is my brew of choice but there are cheaper alternatives that will be up to the job). Also consider a set of 997 GT3 front brake ducts (they are surprisingly cheap, are fine for a 996 and will help to keep the temperatures in the range where they will work as they should).

Contrary to what a lot of people think, the 'ring is not brake intensive compared to places like Spa or Silverstone and standard disks and pads will be up to the job (though as with all track use you will see greatly accelerated wear compared to race pads). The pads will not fail and they will not desiccate in short order like they would on a brake hostile circuits.

The 2 things to remember -
Your C4S has the braking system from a 420hp Porsche Turbo and out of the box it is much stronger than an overweight civilian saloon or hatch.
This is the 'ring - if you are going fast enough there to generate the kind of thermal stress that would make this an issue then you should already know so much about the place and the car that you wouldn't need to ask the question in the first place.

So - what does happen if you use stock Porsche pads? Well - if you you use them at Brands Indy and Spa : they won't last 3 days (I think that you can guess how I know that). But they will work until they are spent. At the 'ring : much less of a problem. If you are hitting them particularly hard you can cook the fluid if you are using stock though, so if your pedal starts to lengthen you will need to dial it back a bit.
 
Halcyon said:
A couple of years ago I took my CLK around the 'ring.
I didn't rag it as I'd never driven around the circuit before - but I still managed to cook the brakes to the point where I struggled to stop when I got back to the carpark! :eek:
Click to expand...

I have to make a glib comment to that and point out that if you are driving a Mercedes on a track (any Mercedes, any track) then you probably ought to have expected that. Our very own NXI20 once took his AMG to Donington for a laugh and managed to essentially set the brakes on fire in only a few laps. Out of the box you really shouldn't be comparing a CLK to a 911... :hand:

But even the notoriously weak stock brakes of the E46 BMW M3 are up to the job for 'ring use.
 
Drybeer said:
Thanks for advice, I've found those Ferodo ones at various online sellers.

Question: Do I need the anti squeal shims and where do I get them from and will they work with the brake wear indicators?

If they don't work with the brake wear indicator wires will this constantly give a dash warning?

Thanks again,

AD.
Click to expand...
Send me a PM and i can get you DS2500 that take wear sensors.
No need for shims if you will use them pads only on track.
 
Pro Calipers said:
Drybeer said:
Thanks for advice, I've found those Ferodo ones at various online sellers.

Question: Do I need the anti squeal shims and where do I get them from and will they work with the brake wear indicators?

If they don't work with the brake wear indicator wires will this constantly give a dash warning?

Thanks again,

AD.
Click to expand...
Send me a PM and i can get you DS2500 that take wear sensors.
No need for shims if you will use them pads only on track.
Click to expand...

Thanks - your last two post were most useful and informative. In truth I didn't think I would be ragging my car so hard as to get brake fade, although I wouldn't have liked that to spoil our fun either.

What do you think to this idea?

I buy new Brembo front discs and pads from design911 (seems a good deal) as my rears are very new, for £275.

Fit these new front discs with the Ferodo's you can supply me (I'll PM you) along with upgraded brake fluid...

Do 'ring trip, and on return fit the new Brembo pads in their place for day to day driving?

Question: worth upgrading both front and rear to DS2500 or just fronts?
 
Drybeer said:
Pro Calipers said:
Drybeer said:
Thanks for advice, I've found those Ferodo ones at various online sellers.

Question: Do I need the anti squeal shims and where do I get them from and will they work with the brake wear indicators?

If they don't work with the brake wear indicator wires will this constantly give a dash warning?

Thanks again,

AD.
Click to expand...
Send me a PM and i can get you DS2500 that take wear sensors.
No need for shims if you will use them pads only on track.
Click to expand...

Thanks - your last two post were most useful and informative. In truth I didn't think I would be ragging my car so hard as to get brake fade, although I wouldn't have liked that to spoil our fun either.

What do you think to this idea?

I buy new Brembo front discs and pads from design911 (seems a good deal) as my rears are very new, for £275.

Fit these new front discs with the Ferodo's you can supply me (I'll PM you) along with upgraded brake fluid...

Do 'ring trip, and on return fit the new Brembo pads in their place for day to day driving?

Question: worth upgrading both front and rear to DS2500 or just fronts?
Click to expand...

I will strongly suggest getting front and rear DS2500 pads.
The rear brakes does not work as much as the front so they should be run cooler, but if they will heat up over the max temp. point of your std pads then you will feel the difference.
For the sake of £120 i will go for all 4.

Yes you can run the ds2500 as suggested and swap them over afterwards.
DS2500 are more fast road/novice track use friendly pads.
They work good from cold and great once push harder.

Also consider braided brake lines if you have not fitted them as yet or replaced your std lines not long ago.
Rubber hoses should be replaced every 5-6 years as they will give away and expand under hard braking giving you longer and spongy brake pedal feeling.
 
So - pulling trigger on these parts this week having dealt with he car's most recent dose of incontinence.

Question:

Will I notice any difference getting the genuine Porsche front discs compared to Sebro ones from Eurocarparts? Some forum members say no probs with them, and they're £212 for the pair presently?
 
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