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The return of Marty Wild
Hockenheim


Joined: 04 Nov 2016
Posts: 689



PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, car looks it just rolled off the production line.
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michelin
Watkins Glen


Joined: 28 Oct 2010
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2006 Porsche 997 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It certainly does!
I like the way you've finally done the wheels Wink
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Zingari
Donnington
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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jonttt wrote:




what That just doesn't sound right, unless it's Brazilian Dont know

Good job there chum Thumb
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jonttt
Reims


Joined: 20 Aug 2012
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PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2017 12:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

michelin wrote:
It certainly does!
I like the way you've finally done the wheels Wink
Thumb


You shamed me into it Grin
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michelin
Watkins Glen


Joined: 28 Oct 2010
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2006 Porsche 997 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2017 6:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We can cut some time one day and give them the 'Gtechniq' treatment! worship
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jonttt
Reims


Joined: 20 Aug 2012
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PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2017 10:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm playing golf for a few days in wales....... thought I would have to take the daily as I didn't fancy putting the golf bag on the passenger seat but amazingly fitted in the boot of the boxster Thumb

I took out the driver and 3 wood which fitted into the recesses and the bag fitted in fine. I don't think a trolley bag would fit but a carry bag no problem.

So it was a pleasant, sunny, roof down, take it easy drive down north wales this afternoon Cool


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jonttt
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PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had to run a chore this morning and my 6 year old daughter wanted to come along. I just picked up the keys to my daily when she asked if we could go in the "sports car". I smiled and changed keys, then remembered I had to get a booster seat out of one of the other cars lol.

As I was strapping her in she said "remember I don't like heights or fastness", I replied "we won't be going very high" and laughed.

Dropped the roof and the sun came out, fate was on our side.

She loved the "fastness" in the end.

Still lovin the boxster even though I have been / am away a lot this month which has limited its use.
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jonttt
Reims


Joined: 20 Aug 2012
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As an update......

I've been using the BGTS as a daily about 2 days per week over the past couple of weeks with a conscious effort to use it in manual mode more often.

I was initially unsure about PDK, if its a daily I accepted it makes more sense but as a hobby / weekend car I feared I was missing out on the manual box offering more driving feel / flexibility (engine braking etc....)

now I think its simply down to practice / getting to know the PDK. I am now driving it 90% of the time in manual mode, even in traffic. Most of that is simply down to familiarity / practice ie once you "know" when to change up / down without looking what gear you are in / using the flappy paddles it does become second nature just like a manual box is. It does very much feel like riding a bike / learning to drive again but once it "clicks" its easy / more fun.

Manual mode just simply makes the car more fun to drive and makes the noise even more of a pleasure having much more control over the revs and noise. sport plus mode does hold onto revs for too long, sport does not so manual mode gives full control somewhere in between the 2.

Roof down in 1st & 2nd gears revved out the car really does sound like a supercar should and is without doubt the closest thing to a supercar I have driven for <£60k. It so reminds me of a ferrari 430/458/488 spider in race mode to drive which is quite something.

I let an friend drive it for a short while a week ago, he had never been in any sort of sports car before let alone drive one, car was warmed up so striaght in sport plus mode for him. The sheer excitement and pleasure he got from the experience has to remind you how lucky we are to take such cars for granted. I got as much pleasure from his experience as he did. Reminded me of when I was 25 Wink
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isysman
Zolder


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was sat in a GTS today at Wilmslow today. Sounded glorious. Very tempted however amazingly that one didn't have heated seats. Deal breaker for me.
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Last edited by isysman on Fri Jul 07, 2017 10:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
 
  
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jonttt
Reims


Joined: 20 Aug 2012
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes there are some weird specs out there
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michelin
Watkins Glen


Joined: 28 Oct 2010
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2006 Porsche 997 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I second JonT on using the car in manual mode sometimes, my son loves it especially on the M58!
Sport Plus is too brutal for me so Sport is the perfect balance.
On another note, mine is in for a major @ OPC Wilmslow and I've had a Macan S since Thursday with the return on Monday.
What a car for pure road holding performance! When you floor it you feel as if you are on a runway on the road to taking off! It's a good car but I prefer my 981 for that pure sports car feeling.
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jonttt
Reims


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 12:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I cancelled SWMBO's Macan GTS order last minute (it was due to start build) and got her an Evoque instead ....... so I could get the BGTS Hand

My brother has a Macan GTS due for delivery next month (if he can't resist waiting for Sept registration) so looking forward to giving it a go.
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jonttt
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So its been an interesting day today.......

A few months ago the rear view mirror fell off......doh! So I arranged for my local OPC to inspect the car for a warranty claim for a new mirror and took it in the following week. They rejected the claim for a new mirror ........... it needed a new windscreen !!!!! It was a 2 day job, sigh......

They could fit me in the following week but no courtesy car (which I don't really need). I asked how long I would have to wait to arrange a 718 as a courtesy car..... about 6 weeks. Now given I could secure the rear view mirror OK with car reg tape and it would give me the chance to really try the 718 I thought why not wait.....

So this morning I dropped my car off and took possession for 2 days of a 17 plate, 5k miler fully loaded (well almost) 718 Boxster S in ............ yellow.

Now I have driven a 718 boxster before, a none S when they first launched, for 30 min. At the time I had never driven a 981. So my intention was to really try and do an unbiased / honest comparison from a 981 GTS owner to as near as dammit similar spec 718 S. What an ideal opportunity for me to have my own very direct comparison / view. Obviously I am very conscious of all the controversy over the engine change but am very sensitive to 718 owners who have spent their hard earned cash on their pride and joy.

Having set that scene / intent I think I am obliged to point out at this point that 718 owners should probably stop reading this now. That statement alone was far from my intent / expectation but in summary before I get into the detail as why, there is simly no real comparison between the two. I find myself rather than being the expected position of giving pro's and cons and the differences not being as great as the press / bandwagon has made out based on my recollection of a brief test drive pre 981, rather more shocked at the differences than I ever imagined. If anything the differences really have been played down by the press.

Anyway with that out of the way, lets get onto some details for the 981 owners still obviously reading this...........

The 718 spec (from what I can see, I don't have the build sheet):

- S

- did I mention its yellow (love it)

- PDK

- Black Full Leather with Alu trim

- base seats (whatever they are called)

- BOSE

- auto dim / fold mirrors

- PASM

- PSE

- Sport Chrono

- heated seats

- NO climate (WTF, even OPC's can't spec it right!)

In other words probably about as close as possible as you can get to my spec 981 GTS, the ideal comparison.



First Impressions:

So on walking up to the car, it looks great. The colour and styling are spot on. to me the front end does not look as good / aggressive as the GTS but the rear end is great/clean/powerful lines. The colour just enhances the supercar feel.

On sitting in the car, its grubby, I have to look past that, its a demo, unvaleted, still warm from being returned by the previous user, my cars are always immaculate inside, nott he cars fault, its what I was expecting. Straight away the seats are not as comfortable / supportive as the sport plus seats in my GTS. The steering wheel looks aweful, fussy multifunction buttons, not as clean / sculptured as the GTS wheel. Its weird feeling leather, I've got so used to the alcantara in a boxster now. I can take it or leave it on the wheel but overall the fit / trim even with full leather does not feel as high quality as the GTS. The grain of the leather is cheaper, the alu trim, the leather stitching, none of it adds to the experience like the full GTS interior of my car.

Now for the big moment, the engine start. First a recap of what I love about my 981. first button I press is Sport on startup (this also turns on PSE), second is flick over to manual and I drive the car 95% of the time in manual using the flappy paddles now. The induction noise in 1st/2nd gear in ANY environment is simply the best I have every experienced short of a M3 CSL (it is actually probably better but its a while since I've driven one for direct comparison) or Ferrari, 430, 488 in race mode......

I startup the 718........WTF !!!! OMG !!!! ........ I hate myself for this but I can only repeat what I've read on forums, Subaru. now that shocked me. I have driven one before, at launch and I simply do not remember thinking that.....but that was pre 981. Now again to put into perspective I was a big jap fan back in the day. I had scoobies before they where playstation pin up cars, my last was a new import WRX on an S plate so when was that, back in '98 ? This thing sounded just like I remember a scooby with an aftermarket exhaust. I sat there in shock gripping the wheel.

I repeat again I sat there in shock, noooooooooo.

Then I remember I had not put into sport mode or switched on PSE. I went to press the sport button, doh! its not there, dial on the wheel, oh yeh I forgot. I turn the wheel, the dash display tells me I'm on sport mode, where is the mode light on the wheel..... its not there, gone. not functional at all but I love the fact the wheel on mine lights up in sport / sport plus. No great shakes but first impression is step backward. what was wrong with the button(s), easier to use whilst driving etc..... ? but mostly the car just has more blanks down there now, sad I know.

I press the PSE button...... nothing. The car by now just has this uncomfortable grumble...... I turn off and back on again, is it working ?

At this point the sales rep comes over and I wind the widow down, have I been sat there for ages in a time warp of shock looking stupid ? ...... no he is there to check there is enough petrol in it, with parting words of don't worry about filling it back up, cool. At that point I remember that the car has probably been fed standard unleaded and not high octance ? remember to bear that in mind I tell myself......

So that has broken the shock I was still in....... I'm off. I drive the car in manual, its what I'm used to now and by far the most fun way to drive a PDK.

The next thing that hits me is how light the steering is, no feel, artificial. I can only assume this car has power steering plus, mine does not. I hope it has as its simply aweful. If you have power steering plus on your 718/918 get it turned off (its a software switch an OPC can do). I'll give the car credit and assume its power steering plus. Again I can't remember my previous test drive being so light.

No my drive to where I was going of about 30 miles was 90% motorway from the OPC and I had pre decided to take a different route, 50:50 a road / B road. In the end I did double that as I simply could not believe the difference to my 981 and I wanted to try every type of driving I could. so there is more....

Out on the Road...

The first, most important and most obvious thing I can state is simply how boring I found the car to drive compared to my 981. Shocking. Now again to put this in context I'm lucky enough to drive so very nice metal at the extreme end of the scales, from Phantom luxury to Lambo mentalness. When I say boring I'm not on about speed. It is no doubt a faster / more capable car than my GTS, but so is the 991 GT3 I've been driving recently, etc... etc... No when I say boring I mean boring in the sense, or lack of, driving experience it gives you. This was actually the most shocking thing about the car, it is boring to drive. Yes the noise is a massive part of that, vastly underestimated by many but the power delivery is just as important. Put them both together as a package compared to the 981 GTS and the gulf in driving sensation is massive, not even close, shockingly wide. In fact it beggers believe.

I've stated before that to most buyers of a boxster, the 4FI v 6NA debate is meaningless. My recollection of the 718 I test drove was that to most it would sound / drive like a sports car ie what they have paid good money for and expect, they will be happy. But now I have a real, indepth knowledge of what Porsche achieved with the 981 I was simply left with a feeling of sadness, the step backwards in the driver experience is simply massive. i found myself contemplating, is this just simply more a GT car but the answer is no. It is no more comfortable in the real world than the 981, in fact compared to the GTS interior its a step back, yes the drive is "easier" to exploit but there is an underlying rumble/undertone to the engine which to be frank was simply unpleasant. I was constantly turning PSE on / off but it made as near as damn it no difference. In my car swithc PSE off and you know its off.

The only comparable I could find on my car was that the kick down / engine braking backfire, snare/crackle of the exhaust was comparable to the 981. Great fun, embarrasing at times. But the comparable up the rev range of induction noise was not only not comparable, its does not exist. The most fun part of driving the GTS is the feeling and noise up the gears in manual mode, it is simply sublime, addictive, organismic..... the same experience in the 718 is lame, a massive disappointment.... boring apart from the sensation of raw speed. I have no doubt I was going faster quicker in the 718 but it simply did not feel like it due to the massively subdued way you get there.

I expected to then go on about turbo lag etc... etc.... but to be honest its simply not relevent, it does not matter, I had lost interest in the car after 1 hour of driving it !

This honestly was not what I was expecting to write. Yes I was expecting to be naturally biased (as I always am now FI v a good NA package) but I cannot get past what a backward step Porsche have taken. I kept on thinking wow for all the wrong reasons, wow how can it sound so bad, wow how can it feel so different, even how can I be going so fast and not enjoying it, sad, sad sad.

I will be driving the 718 for the next day and half, I've got a good run planned tomorrow but I know already all it is doing is proving how good a 981 is, the 718 is dead to me and that is very sad indeed.

ps to put things in perspective the Macan GTS is simply more fun to drive, that can't be right, can it ?
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Zingari
Donnington
Donnington


Joined: 25 Oct 2009
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1993 Porsche 964 Anniversary

PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PC Just as I was looking for what my ideal spec 981 would be and realising it pushed me into the price bracket of the 718 I figured getting the more 'modern' engineered car should be the way to go.

Hand Having said that I can shave a few bags of the initial budget and go 981. But, will I do more dough in depreciation as 718 prices fall Dont know
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jonttt
Reims


Joined: 20 Aug 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't express how big the gulf in driving pleasure is. So much so it will be really interesting to see:

- how 981 prices hold v 718. Normally I would say they won't and no doubt they will have an effect but it's got to make a difference that the 981 is such a better experience.

- the 718 GTS / GT4 will be 6NA or not. Surely Porsche KNOW. If these are NA engines as rumoured it's got to be a massive slap in the face to current owners.

I've driven the car more tonight and note:

- there is a difference with PSE on/off but it's awful with either

- you cannot engine brake. One of the tricks with getting to grips with the 981 PDK is engine braking, it's awesome for an auto box. It's impossible so far as I can see in the 718. Not only that it seems to get confused and I experienced some truly shocking gear changes. The car just seems to do the opposite to the 981.

One of the great pleasures I've had is learn8ng how to drive the PDK, once learned you get that sublime flowing momentum you get with a good manual box but without the risks of rev matching the clutch etc..... In the 718 I felt mostly like the car was trying to drive me. It made me want to stick the car in auto and ease off.

And what's with the button in the middle of the sport m9de selector, 20 second countdown of what I can see is sports plus mode.......why? Just put the car in manual, sports chrono is crap at anything other than lazy driving. Very gimmicky to make someone not used to driving a sports car feel like they are driving fast ? The risk of it counting down and switching out and up the gears when you may need the revs is just pointless !

I'm still in shock, my word of the day
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Pretzel
Montreal


Joined: 20 Apr 2014
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting reading, are we starting to see the VAG influence in Porsche sports cars.
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The return of Marty Wild
Hockenheim


Joined: 04 Nov 2016
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very in-depth write up! I own neither a 981 or a 718 but made it to the end. I feel all these 4 cylinder FI engines are detracting from the Porsche essence, sad times indeed.

As car people know, the reg plate means nothing as to how good the car is.

One point though, whilst organismic theory is interesting, it's is hard to see the context when talking about cars! Laughing
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jonttt
Reims


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The return of Marty Wild wrote:
.........

One point though, whilst organismic theory is interesting, it's is hard to see the context when talking about cars! Laughing


Ah, but you have not driven a GTS Hand

As a final update......the 718 was returned today after about as mixed a day driving as you could get (short of getting it on track)...... 50 mile motorway commute, 50 A/B road in the wet, followed by 25 mile motorway with roof down.

I would imagine (cough) that the car is only in its comfort zone going in a straight line on the motorway, the faster the more it comes into its own as you go up and down the gears. It is faster, more responsive than the 981 without a shadow of a doubt. There is no "event" to this other than the raw shove in the back from the turbo. Do the same in the 981 and its slower but that only gives you more time to appreciate the experience it gives you. The shove in the back is not as great but the feeling of wanting to do it again and again is much greater.

Here is the rub, get off the motorway and the 718 is truly an awful drive. All that I hate in FI cars as their worst and it really does sound terrible. Now I'm a bit weird, I enjoy driving in the wet. The 718 is typical turbo power delivery in the wet, slightly scary, unpredictable and therefore unpleasant, you have to drive well within your ability as you feel it may bite you at any time. That all or nothing digital power delivery of a turbo I moved away from a long time ago when I realized driving pleaseure is not about straight line speed. If I'd done the same B roads in the wet in the 981 I know I would have enjoyed the drive so much more. The power delivery is just so much more analogue, linear and therefore predicatable. I will happily get the rear end to squirm in the 981 with full confidence it will fall into line with slight adjustments of throttle, engine braking into deep pends to carry the revs through with a balance and smoothness that is rewarding and enjoyable i.e. Fun. It is simply not possible to get the same experience in the 718. The car feels unsettled, the auto box gets confused, the power delivery is uncertain. It was clear I would never have a 718 in PDK. A manual box would make it more controllable but I fear at the expense of exaggerating the turbo lag the PDK tries to hide. The arguments that the 718 is a better handling car are totally irrelevent, any difference being ruined, masked by the engine.
There is turbo lag and don't let anyone tell you there is not. The PDK box is definately compromised in trying to mask it, but by example I did an overtake today, dropping the gears in preparation when I had to hesitate before committing, that slight hesitation took the turbo off boost and when committed there was that classic turbo "nothing" before all hell broke lose and the shove in the back. No doubt there are those who love that classic turbo experience, fine when in a straight line and in the dry but I would much much rather have the smooth predicatable, controllable power delivery of a great NA engine. Yes I may be a tenth slower but boy does it feel safer and more enjoyable getting there.

So finally it was time to hand the car back. To be fair I was asked did I like it. We had an honest chat about why I did not. The only real response was "the GTS is a great car". It is and I appreciate it even more now. The drive home in heavy rain was sublime, fun, rewarding everything the 718 was not.

Ps I did like the color though Wink
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tim993
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good write up Jonttt thumbsup
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The return of Marty Wild
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Joined: 04 Nov 2016
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 6:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Job well done, very interesting read.

Sorry, Jonttt I was being an ar$e. You mean orgasmic and undoubtedly your GTS is Thumb
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Life's too short for cr4ppy cars, keep it German!

Cayman S 987.1

Last edited by The return of Marty Wild on Thu Aug 03, 2017 8:49 am; edited 1 time in total
 
  
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