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evodarren
Monza


Joined: 12 Nov 2008
Posts: 217



PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2016 12:40 pm    Post subject: 997.1 GT3 to 991GT3 Reply with quote

I'm thinking of changing my 997.1 gt3 to a 991 Gt3
I have driving my mates 991GT3RS only when new so he was running it in. I'm concerned I may miss the old school feel of my 997 version. I do love the manual gearbox in mine. Have anyone upgraded and what are you views.
Thanks Darren
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apollokre1d
Watkins Glen


Joined: 06 Nov 2012
Posts: 2021
Location: United Kingdom


PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2016 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Send a PM to nick w
He currently owns both Smile
 
  
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T8
General
General


Joined: 29 Jun 2010
Posts: 12014
Location: Kent


PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2016 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

apollokre1d wrote:
Send a PM to nick w
He currently owns both Smile


Nick's are both GT3RSs.

There's a bit about his thoughts comparing the the two on this thread.

=> http://www.911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=116379&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=
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2007 Guards Red 997 Turbo Tiptronic
ex 2004 Polar Silver 996T Tiptronic
ex 2002 Seal Grey 996.2 C4 Tiptronic
ex 1978 Silver 924 Manual
 
  
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apollokre1d
Watkins Glen


Joined: 06 Nov 2012
Posts: 2021
Location: United Kingdom


PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2016 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks T8, I was looking for that thread but could not find it... and that's why I'll never make captain Smile
 
  
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Bigfra
Monza


Joined: 22 Aug 2012
Posts: 150



PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2016 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have been thinking about this as well recently. Mod the GT3 or buy a 991 GT3.

Either that or buy a 599 lol
 
  
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Roro
Long Beach


Joined: 01 Oct 2010
Posts: 6042



PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I briefly considered similar last year (trading to a pdk GT3) but decided against it. I decided I value the manual gear changes more on a weekend car than I would an auto

I now get my flappy paddle fix via the wife's Smart car which is just as fast as a 991 GT3*


*Not entirely factually accurate, but true 90% of the time Grin
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2015 DMAX Blade
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jotaking
Monza


Joined: 01 Jun 2012
Posts: 219



PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been considering the switch from turbo to GT3.
My budget will get me into a 997.2 GT3 or base spec with extra miles 991 GT3.

I'm sure I won't be disappointed with either...however..
My head is saying 997.2 will hold the value better than the 991. However I prefer the look of the 991 and I think I would prefer the accessible performance with the PDK??

This is where I am at....

997.2
For
Less made
Last mezger engine
Last manual GT3???

Against
Heavy clutch
You got to redline to get close to Turbo speed
IMHO not as good looking as 991

991
For
Accessible performance
More useable for road trips, easier to drive
Better looking
Nicer interior
Better performance

Against

More made
Engine issue (although fixed by Porsche)
No manual option
Less involved and raw than 997

Will a 991 Gt3 always command more than a 997????

descisons......descisions.....
 
  
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Cheib
Monza


Joined: 20 Feb 2016
Posts: 185



PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your list of pluses and minuses is an interesting one! Personally I love the look of the 997.2 and prefer the interior as I think it feels m="more 911" than than the more corporate feel of the 991 interior. I think the 991 is the more rounded car though and probably might get used more.

The one thing I do think though is that a 997.2 will be worth more than a 991.1 in the future. Many less made and I don't think the current fascination with manual gearboxes is going away. I also think the 991.1 is likely to suffer in comparison to the 991.2...but we'll know the answer to that much better within the next week.

Good spec 997.2 don't hang around for more than a day or two...JZM has a lovely CS recently which sold within hours for £120k IIRC. Although you could say that of any Porsche model at the moment...good spec cars just sell.
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david_yorkshire
Monza


Joined: 05 Feb 2009
Posts: 232
Location: Herts


PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i'd say go and try both.

Putting ± on paper never works for me !

some things you just can't quantify.

I've not owned a .2 997 GT3;
had a MK1 9965 GT3 & a Mk1 997 cup.
now have a 991 GT3 CS pack

I don't think I'd go back to a 997.

As for the interior on the 991 - personally I prefer it massively over the 997.
again, it's just personal preference

the 991 has a unique ability to me - I can drive it for 100's miles just like a regular 991, auto PDK mode, nice comfy suspension (seriously!) great seats etc, but get on the right roads / track move to manual, press couple of buttons,and it just changes character.
I like that Smile
 
  
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Cunno
Watkins Glen


Joined: 13 Dec 2008
Posts: 2138
Location: Nottinghamshire


PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did a similar thing a few months back thinking when 991.2 hits market 991.1 would make a good buy. Then realised that you would have to maintain warranty on the 991.1 due to the engine issue and therefore wouldn't be able to mod for hard track work. That put an end to my 991 GT3 thoughts.
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Porsche is for driving not for washing.
Present Car: 2006 3.6 Porsche GT3 997(White)
Ex: 2006 3.4 Porsche Cayman S (Silver)
Ex: 2001 2.7 Porsche Boxster (Seal Grey)
 
  
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jotaking
Monza


Joined: 01 Jun 2012
Posts: 219



PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought the engine issue had been resolved?
various dealers have told me that ALL engines were replaced in full on cars that were supplied with the launch power plant.

The problem being a connecting fixing on the connecting rod?


To quote dealer.

All engines are now the new design and are 100%, this will not affect residuals.
 
  
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Cunno
Watkins Glen


Joined: 13 Dec 2008
Posts: 2138
Location: Nottinghamshire


PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jotaking wrote:
I thought the engine issue had been resolved?
various dealers have told me that ALL engines were replaced in full on cars that were supplied with the launch power plant.

The problem being a connecting fixing on the connecting rod?


To quote dealer.

All engines are now the new design and are 100%, this will not affect residuals.


Would you be happy to run a 991.1 GT3 without a warranty? Personally I wouldn't I've heard of cars on 7th engine. So imv it does effect my division making.
_________________
Porsche is for driving not for washing.
Present Car: 2006 3.6 Porsche GT3 997(White)
Ex: 2006 3.4 Porsche Cayman S (Silver)
Ex: 2001 2.7 Porsche Boxster (Seal Grey)
 
  
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jotaking
Monza


Joined: 01 Jun 2012
Posts: 219



PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just wiping coffee off my computer screen!!

7 engines!!! I think I would have given it them back on the 2nd!!

Are these really that bad?

I have heard of a few instances where there has been catastrophic failure?

I was led to believe that Porsche had just manned up and said....we want everything back, faulty or not for a new engine? And that was that?

Is there a thread for the multiple engine debacle?
 
  
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jotaking
Monza


Joined: 01 Jun 2012
Posts: 219



PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just educating myself now....

http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/motors/porsche-gt3-owners-face-more-engine-concerns-1.2284524

Very interesting. None of the dealers mentioned valve problems!!

I do prefer the 991, however, the year on year warranty looks like a must?
 
  
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Disco
Paul Ricard


Joined: 13 May 2008
Posts: 3477
Location: Hertfordshire

2010 Porsche 997 GT3

PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jotaking wrote:

991
...
Against

More made
Engine issue (although fixed by Porsche)
No manual option
Less involved and raw than 997

Will a 991 Gt3 always command more than a 997????

descisons......descisions.....


Oh - you can keep going on that IMHO...

I don't even like the rear steer on the 991 from the passenger seat at track speeds and given how it works and where the actuators sit it is virtually guaranteed to either wear out or fail sooner or later (I have heard second hand stories of alarming amounts of play in the system at modest mileage with Porsche saying that it is perfectly normal and not a warranty job to sort).

The 997 isn't only the end of the Mezger derivative line, but also the last narrow bodied 911 track car. For all of its easy road manners the 991 GT3 has an appreciably larger footprint when you are on a narrow road or need to park it.

Everything about owning the 991 is more expensive - brakes, tyres, servicing, etc...

Unlike the 997, you cannot do the vacuum cap trick to force a 991 to use all 3 silencers at 3/4 max rpm in order to reduce the noise for a static noise test on track days. [911s are often fine on driveby noise but struggle with low static tests due to the proximity of the engine to the noise meter]. The 991 is also louder out of the box too.

The 991 engine reliability continues to be questionable. I have had quite a few conversations with 991 GT3 owners who have had serious gremlins and multiple engine replacements (even after the design was supposedly fixed) in entirely too low mileages and negligible age. The long term may turn out to be better, but existing owners have well and truly put me off of them personally. If you are thinking long term then you could potentially extend at least a question mark over the e-diff and gearbox too, so only the bravest or wealthiest owners would even entertain running one out of warranty.

Will a 991 continue to hold strong residuals? Maybe - they brought in far more of them than any other GT3, but the market for a jam-friendly easy to drive car is much larger than the traditional GT3 niche so it may or may not hold : we can only speculate.
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Black 997 GT3 3.8 CS - Acquired for the 2012 season and beyond
Black 996 GT3 Mk2 - Gone, but will never be forgotten
 
  
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david_yorkshire
Monza


Joined: 05 Feb 2009
Posts: 232
Location: Herts


PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll just add my 2p
I've only ever failed one noise test on the 991GT3 - Bedford, static OK, just driveby, so was actually manageable.

The current engine rev for the GT3 is G, as is fitted to mine.

Mine had the precautionary replacement engine at launch, and another one last year (showed its hand at Oulton).
This was due to the DLC coating issue with the finger rockers ( oil starvation from memory?)
Causes a CEL, as the timing isn't 100% perfect.
All replaced via OPC warranty, no hassle at all.
Porsche AG authorised a new engine immediately - start to finish about 2 weeks ish.

I would certainly caution buying a non G version 991 GT3 - ticking time bomb.. ?
possibly.
It is easy to check - its on the VIN stickers.

I've also heard of the rear steer actuators developing excessive play; I'm keeping an eye on mine throughout warranty, and if it becomes a problem, they will be replaced.
Part of my suspension check @ CG a while ago highlighted that they were in top condition ( as is the rest of the car!)
 
  
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jotaking
Monza


Joined: 01 Jun 2012
Posts: 219



PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Right...

Just read all this!

http://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3-gt3rs-and-911r/914162-some-details-on-9a1-engine-in-gt3r.html

My interpretation is...

E Engine
Connecting pin on con rod issue
Possible lubrication issues at high revs causing wear to cams

F Engine
Connecting rod issue resolved
Enhanced coatings on cams and higher oil pressure to mitigate wear

G Engine
Enhanced coatings and improved oil delivery system, larger oil rails, filler neck and new oil filter.

So...991.1GT3 with G Engine is the one???

From my reading, it looks to be an issue for "track warriors" rather than a daily driver with occasional track use. That said, if you are buying into the "track car for the road" then it should be a given that the car will not need any major works so early in its' lifecycle?
 
  
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Disco
Paul Ricard


Joined: 13 May 2008
Posts: 3477
Location: Hertfordshire

2010 Porsche 997 GT3

PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jotaking wrote:
Right...

Just read all this!
...
So...991.1GT3 with G Engine is the one???


...so far.

Remember that while launched in 2013, delays to initial delivery due to unspecified engine and gearbox problems plus the "stop using" directive to the customers that got the earliest deliveries meant that nobody was actually driving them in any kind of anger until only about 2.5 years ago. And so far there have been 7 engine revisions. Superficially there are strong grounds to suspect that there may be further issues over time as the cars really haven't been in the wild for long and typical mileages are in general still very low.

Compared to the engine in earlier GT3s, the motor in the 991 remains very much an unknown commodity.

So to reiterate - IMHO only a very rich or very brave man runs the 991 GT3 outside of factory warranty coverage and that will remain the case for at least a good many years yet. Irrespective of which version of the engine is currently in any given car.

If you keep it stock and keep extending your warranty though, they are still a decent bit of kit and a strong option at its price point.
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Black 997 GT3 3.8 CS - Acquired for the 2012 season and beyond
Black 996 GT3 Mk2 - Gone, but will never be forgotten
 
  
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david_yorkshire
Monza


Joined: 05 Feb 2009
Posts: 232
Location: Herts


PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agree

warranty is a must
 
  
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jotaking
Monza


Joined: 01 Jun 2012
Posts: 219



PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep, agree....

You need to factor in £1,350.00 per annum.
 
  
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