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911tom
Watkins Glen


Joined: 22 May 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 1:31 pm    Post subject: 996 Turbo RWD conversion Reply with quote

It seems a lot of 'big power' turbos are converted to RWD. Is this purely done to change the driving experience or is there some weak components that force the mod? My car is a tiptronic and at a guess will be around 900hp. I have had the gearbox built to handle 1300nm torque. Being a tip and the turbo in general is not the best track car, I am not looking to improve track experience. For that reason I'd prefer to keep AWD. Any one no of any reason why I should go RWD?

JD / Ken I'm looking at you guys...
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MisterCorn
Dijon


Joined: 08 Jan 2011
Posts: 7254
Location: Nottingham, England

2004 Porsche 996 Turbo

PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I spoke with Matt about this, decided to stay with AWD as there were concerns about serious traction issues otherwise.

MC
 
  
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911tom
Watkins Glen


Joined: 22 May 2012
Posts: 2045
Location: Buckinghamshire


PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah... That would be my concern. Going RWD seems a step backwards in some ways but most seem to be converted and I wonder why? So long as nothing is likely to break I'd prefer to keep AWD.
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Shurv
Kyalami


Joined: 09 Jan 2013
Posts: 1751
Location: Northampton


PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

These cars were built with AWD for a good reason, to keep them on the road. By more than doubling the BHP and building an amazing road rocket, why ruin the work by restricting it to 2wd and being unable to put down onto the road all that lovely BHP you've just shelled out for.
Tom, 900 BHP, you nutter Very Happy worship thumbsup thumbsup thumbsup
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911tom
Watkins Glen


Joined: 22 May 2012
Posts: 2045
Location: Buckinghamshire


PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Could not agree more Marcus. but people seem to convert them... All logic suggests that to get the power down AWD has to be better. Sure there are more transmission losses but got to be better. I can only think the reason is strength.

It may not be quite 900hp but I am trying to over engineer to make it reliable hence the strong, slightly OTT tiptronic box build.
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CarreraMonkey
Watkins Glen


Joined: 02 Sep 2013
Posts: 2017
Location: Silverstone (ish)

2007 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 2:52 pm    Post subject: Re: 996 Turbo RWD conversion Reply with quote

911tom wrote:
Any one no of any reason why I should go RWD?



Deathwish?
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RXBoxster
Monza


Joined: 31 Jul 2015
Posts: 216
Location: Preston - Lancashire


PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The stock front diff bearing don't hold up too well even with standard power.

But i'm sure some HD aftermarket bearings would sort out that issue,
The viscous coupling should shield the front drive parts from any serious shocks or torque... although I'm not sure on how well that would take much power/heat.
 
  
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EddieCRX
Trainee


Joined: 30 Jun 2014
Posts: 90
Location: Paris


PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tom

Are you running an after market ECU?
The only reason I would consider changing to RWD would be if I was running Syvecs etc, control of traction control.
Even then, I would only switch to RWD in the event the front drive train wasn't capable of coping with the increased power delivery or it was subjective if it would control much beyond a certain point.

900hp is monstrous, respect thumbsup
 
  
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Disco
Estoril


Joined: 13 May 2008
Posts: 3976
Location: Hertfordshire

2010 Porsche 997 GT3

PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Weight saving?
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ELA
Barcelona


Joined: 30 Aug 2011
Posts: 1327
Location: Nurburgring Doorstep


PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steering feel, weight distribution, reliability, weight saving, more fun, individuality...
The rear tyres on these car's are very wide so grip really isn't that much of a concern, I've run an 1100kg Rwd car with over 600bhp with 245 sections on the back, so a turbo with 295's or similar and all the weight over the back axle isn't really struggling for grip.
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996ttalot
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Joined: 21 Sep 2009
Posts: 1503
Location: Horley Gatwick


PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tom

If you make a real 900hp you understand that firstly your PSM button will need to be off at any real load because it will stop you in your tracks - literally halt the car on acceleration because it cannot cope.

Secondly you have zero chance of running AWD with that hp - there are a lot of reasons why both hardware and safety as to why you will need to be RWD.

RWD and buckets of hp works fine. RWD in any 996 Turbo is a much better driving experience especially with PSM off - you can actually feel what it is doing instead of guessing and you will need to be able to feel the tyres. People seem to think that switching PSM off will kill you - it won't just driving not to the conditions will.

If it was the 997 Platform my answer would be slightly different.

Ken
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neil allan
Nürburgring


Joined: 03 Oct 2009
Posts: 410


2003 Porsche 996 Turbo

PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WOW sounds like your going very serious with this rebuild thumbsup

Ken tried to call you today .
 
  
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996ttalot
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Joined: 21 Sep 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

neil allan wrote:
WOW sounds like your going very serious with this rebuild thumbsup

Ken tried to call you today .
Sorry Neil, manic at the moment / call you a little later tonight?

Ken
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MisterCorn
Dijon


Joined: 08 Jan 2011
Posts: 7254
Location: Nottingham, England

2004 Porsche 996 Turbo

PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ken, I would be interested to hear why it really must be RWD, would the same apply if running a Syvecs?

MC
 
  
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911tom
Watkins Glen


Joined: 22 May 2012
Posts: 2045
Location: Buckinghamshire


PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

996ttalot wrote:
Tom

If you make a real 900hp you understand that firstly your PSM button will need to be off at any real load because it will stop you in your tracks - literally halt the car on acceleration because it cannot cope.

Secondly you have zero chance of running AWD with that hp - there are a lot of reasons why both hardware and safety as to why you will need to be RWD.

RWD and buckets of hp works fine. RWD in any 996 Turbo is a much better driving experience especially with PSM off - you can actually feel what it is doing instead of guessing and you will need to be able to feel the tyres. People seem to think that switching PSM off will kill you - it won't just driving not to the conditions will.

If it was the 997 Platform my answer would be slightly different.

Ken


Ken you are a true gent thumbsup

I thought there'd be good reason for not keeping it AWD, there had to be. I don't know what power I'll see tbh but safety and reliability are key. Your comments regarding psm actually reflect my car in the small time that I had it with larger injectors etc. It seemed psm was fine when I ran stock injectors but the extra power meant psm cut the power on WOT. I suspect my days of turning up at vmax and just mashing the throttle are long gone lol

One last question Ken (I know your busy). Am I correct in presuming psm will not register any faults. As whilst the awd system is mechanically fairly clever it has not electronic connection. Well other than abs obviously. Therefore it should not even notice the lack of drive to the front wheels. I'll just turn psm off when at an event. Around town I can keep it on and either run a different map or modulate my foot.
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996ttalot
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Joined: 21 Sep 2009
Posts: 1503
Location: Horley Gatwick


PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

911tom wrote:
996ttalot wrote:
Tom

If you make a real 900hp you understand that firstly your PSM button will need to be off at any real load because it will stop you in your tracks - literally halt the car on acceleration because it cannot cope.

Secondly you have zero chance of running AWD with that hp - there are a lot of reasons why both hardware and safety as to why you will need to be RWD.

RWD and buckets of hp works fine. RWD in any 996 Turbo is a much better driving experience especially with PSM off - you can actually feel what it is doing instead of guessing and you will need to be able to feel the tyres. People seem to think that switching PSM off will kill you - it won't just driving not to the conditions will.

If it was the 997 Platform my answer would be slightly different.

Ken


Ken you are a true gent thumbsup

I thought there'd be good reason for not keeping it AWD, there had to be. I don't know what power I'll see tbh but safety and reliability are key. Your comments regarding psm actually reflect my car in the small time that I had it with larger injectors etc. It seemed psm was fine when I ran stock injectors but the extra power meant psm cut the power on WOT. I suspect my days of turning up at vmax and just mashing the throttle are long gone lol

One last question Ken (I know your busy). Am I correct in presuming psm will not register any faults. As whilst the awd system is mechanically fairly clever it has not electronic connection. Well other than abs obviously. Therefore it should not even notice the lack of drive to the front wheels. I'll just turn psm off when at an event. Around town I can keep it on and either run a different map or modulate my foot.
PSM will not register any faults. Whether you keep the diff in place disconnected or remove it will be your choice depending on your requirements - you should be able to understand the impact of weight reduction if you remove it and make suitable compensation.
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996ttalot
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MisterCorn wrote:
Ken, I would be interested to hear why it really must be RWD, would the same apply if running a Syvecs?

MC
There are lots of things that we found when we pushed the envelope with AWD many years ago - things breaking, locking etc. It just makes it very unpredictable so RWD reduces overall stress of drivetrain components. The 997 is different and we retain AWD if PASM is retained, otherwise again bin the AWD - the 997 system is far superior in what it can cope with compared to 996 platform.

The stock 996 Turbo was essentially designed as a touring car across Europe. This is why it has AWD. I would imagine it has nothing to do with the power it made stock since the GT2 makes more and is not AWD.

As to Syvecs I don't know frankly - we tried it before and don't use it now.

Ken
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911tom
Watkins Glen


Joined: 22 May 2012
Posts: 2045
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ken. Thank you once again!
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Bodgerben
Trainee


Joined: 02 Jan 2012
Posts: 62
Location: Hants


PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow Tom, we're not going to see what way you've gone Smile

Caroline's has been running RWD since 2013 with plenty of track days, PSM has to be off.

Ken's done the gearbox and engine upgrade and Caroline is currently hooning around RWD having fun (as it's all run in), boost controller set low in this weather, but it does go very well Smile

Caroline's needed a new crank case, Turbo's and injectors, rod's etc have been done to Ken's 'up to 1000bhp' level, but with much much less than that.

Try RWD - I think you'll like it, Caroline had no regrets with RWD Smile
 
  
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911tom
Watkins Glen


Joined: 22 May 2012
Posts: 2045
Location: Buckinghamshire


PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bodgerben wrote:
Wow Tom, we're not going to see what way you've gone Smile
Hopefully not due to me spinning off under too acceleration / RWD combo Very Happy




Ben that is inspiring thank you Thumb

Also glad to hear the car is back on the road. I take it Caroline was happy with the addition of bigger turbos!!! Hopefully see you at terminal velocity next year
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