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deMort
Zolder


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 5520
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2016 6:15 pm    Post subject: 996 / 997 Targa roof problems with rebuild Reply with quote

So ...

Thes jobs were done as in one case the motors span on the cables and in the other the roof jammed open , one is a 996 the other a 997 .. both have the same roof assembly .


Targa roofs are pretty tight when new , its normal for the roof to move slowly and in all instances you should have the engine running before operateing it .

People / Garages tend to assume that as its slow it needs lubricateing ...

It Doesn,t ... lubricateing the cables or the mechanism will at first cause the Targa roof to operate faster but after a while the lubricant will collect with dirt / normal dust etc and cause a thick sticky paste .

This will collect on the cables and slow down the roof .. eventually it will just jam it .

In the worst cases it will spin the motor gears on the cables .. very noisy and unplesent sound !

This is the worse one as it will damage the motor gear and they are over £300 each .

Normal is for the roof to either slip and not close evenly or just jam up and have to be manually closed ... basically pulled shut by hand whilst operateing the switch.

First image is of the motors with the tools needed to manually close the roof .
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Last edited by deMort on Thu Nov 15, 2018 8:25 pm; edited 4 times in total
 



Targa 1.jpg
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Targa 2.jpg
 Description:
This shows the drain tubes
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Targa 2.jpg



Targa 3.jpg
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Roof without tailgate or glass roof
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Targa 4.jpg
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Roof assembly removed
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Targa 5.jpg
 Description:
Roof mechanism , this is not too bad , not that much dirt on the plastic feet
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Targa 6.jpg
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This has an awfull lot of grease on the mechanism .. to the point you cant see the white feet anymore
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Targa 7.jpg
 Description:
Old cables showing where they have worn down
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Targa 7.jpg



Targa 8.jpg
 Description:
Roof assembly upside down and stripped ready for new cables .
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Targa 8.jpg


  
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deMort
Zolder


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 5520
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2016 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

These Pictures show where the drains can get blocked and how the grease builds up on the linkage .
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Targa 12.jpg
 Description:
Roof removed , which is actually bigger than the car so its plenty of juggleing to get it out .
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Targa 9.jpg
 Description:
This is the steel guides for the cables , the outer part is plastic , thats where the dirt builds up and splits the guide tube as it trys to drag the cable and dirt through .
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Targa 10.jpg
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Targa 11.jpg
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Millomboy
Suzuka


Joined: 10 Dec 2012
Posts: 1061
Location: Hampshire

1997 Porsche 993 Targa

PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2016 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great work.
worship
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wildej
Monza


Joined: 06 Nov 2014
Posts: 221
Location: Wirral


PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2016 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great post that. Thumb
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deMort
Zolder


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 5520
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2016 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had intended to do a complete walk through of how to do this but unfortunetly i was up to 25 picts and only half way through the removal process let alone the roof cable strip side of it so i had to abandon it .

This is just some of the key pictures and descriptions so ill have to leave it at that ..... if anyone has questions then please ask .


Right click and view image to get a bigger picture .
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lols911
Newbie


Joined: 07 Dec 2016
Posts: 1



PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2016 12:27 pm    Post subject: Targa roof service Reply with quote

Hi Dermot
Good info on the Targa roof, you're obviously an expert.
Can I ask for some help.....I have just brought a project 2003 'Tip' targa with a slow roof (very slow back, needs to be pulled to close) and wet rear carpets (I'm drawn to ill cars!)
Although I'm pretty confident in DIY and can cope with the suspension, service, general tidy up it needs I think the roof is going to be a bit much (I did my smart roadster roof cables but this seems a bit more professional!) - what sort of budget should I allow for a specalist to strip replace cables and seals etc and rebuild? I'll strip out most of the trim to help with cost.
Also I'm based in Milton Keynes (or Horsham) - any body that knows of a capable specalist around here please shout.
Thanks
 
  
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deMort
Zolder


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 5520
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2016 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shall we say .. ive done a few Smile

If you need to pull the glass section to get it to close then cables are the most obvious fault .. it is possible that its broken plastic feet on the mechanism though ...

See picts above for mechanism .

That cant be determined untill the roof is stripped though .. unfortunatly this is the kind of job that can start high then go a lot higher ..

Its 2 days work to do a straight forward cable replacement .. this replaces the cables , the guide tubes and the main frame seal .. parts alone are approx £550 + vat just for that .. sigh .

The bigest part of the time taken for me is with the roof out to strip , clean and replace the cables .

From when i first get the car in then i can have the roof frame out and ready for stripping in 4.5 hours .. the panels are im afraid a small part of the job .. roughly 1 - 2 hours remove and refit.


Water leaks .. well the main frame seal can leak at the rear .. normally center by the tailgate lock ..

Drain tubes block and over flow .. thats either side at the rear ..

The front glass frame seal tubes can split .. this can cause a leak onto the rear passenger seats if parked at an angle in the wet ..

Front drains blocked and the front seats get soaked basically ..

From your description then its rear drains blocked and the water is running forward .. carefull the n/s/f seat area doesnt get wet .. alarm control units under there .

It would be normal .. myself included to inspect the vehicle prior to any work being done .. basically we can look at a few items and give you an idear of possible extra costs before the roof is removed .

Its only the mechanism that cant be checked untill its stripped .. but to scare you a little more the last one i bought 2 years ago was £600 .. hate to think what they are now .

Reguards specialists then im afraid i dont know any around here ..when at OPC most garages seemed to send them to us to repair then put their mark up on it .. ive moved on from there now though .. so a little cheaper Smile
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New frame seal.jpg
 Description:
New seal fitted ready for instillation .. the white plastic comes off leaveing basically sticky tape .. This degrades over time and allows water to leak past .
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New frame seal.jpg



Rear drain.jpg
 Description:
Rear drain which can be removed in situe but isnt easy and must be resealed with silicone sealent when refitting .
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Rear drain.jpg



Front drain tubes.jpg
 Description:
This is the front glass frame seal drain tube.
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Front drain tubes.jpg


  
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infrasilver
Fast & Furious
Fast & Furious


Joined: 04 Oct 2010
Posts: 7907
Location: East Midlands

2001 Porsche 996 Targa

PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 3:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did a 996 FAQ a while ago regarding the centre (B) pillar tube blockage that causes leaks onto the rear seat squab and carpets.

http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=99352
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deMort
Zolder


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 5520
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Im adding some pictures for Dominic who has the pleasure of doing one of these .. it may help him Smile

Micro switch on image no.4 is not needed .. unless you break it !

This switch determines the closed position .. i adjust it but best if you set it back at the marks on it from the old roof.
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PB070064.jpg
 Description:
New seal fitted , frame in the car and hanging on cable ties at the front .. you THEN remove the white tape ready to fit .
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PB070064.jpg



P5040050.jpg
 Description:
Push inwards then turn .. this is how you move the roof out of the car .. DONT force it !
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P5010041.jpg
 Description:
Look at the gears .. these are ok .. if curved or angled on the motors then new motors are required .. pict to me first as they are £700 for a pair.
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P5010041.jpg



P2260058.jpg
 Description:
Parts needed for a standard cable replacement.
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P2260058.jpg



P2230057.jpg
 Description:
Front glass seal .. the tubes split.
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P2230057.jpg


  
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Dom Evola
Newbie


Joined: 03 Jul 2018
Posts: 1



PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DeMort, you are a living legend! I’m about to tackle this job as we speak, will let you know how I get on!
 
  
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HSC911
Zolder


Joined: 23 Jul 2014
Posts: 5713
Location: Bedford


PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

worship Great work...and you have just gained the forum 2 new members Grin

You should be on a commission Thumb
 
  
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K888ETH
Monza


Joined: 10 Mar 2017
Posts: 238
Location: Hampshire


PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's impressive to see what's involved, I have huge respect for anyone who has the patience to take on such a job.

I'd be throwing hammers after 10 mins and looking for a petrol can and some matches after 20 mins Laughing
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infrasilver
Fast & Furious
Fast & Furious


Joined: 04 Oct 2010
Posts: 7907
Location: East Midlands

2001 Porsche 996 Targa

PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quick question DM, do you know how this section of the bodywork is removed from around the base of the Targa roof.



As you can see mine has what looks like corrosion but as they are plastic I assume the weather has got behind it.

I want to remove and repaint but unsure how they are fastened on, any pointers as I can't see that you remove them when removing the roof?
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deMort
Zolder


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 5520
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

its not something i would remove for a roof repair and not something i have ever removed im afraid .. ive looked through the manuals for 996 and 997 and neither list it .

i can say there are no fixings on the inside of the car in that area so i suspect its a couple of poles into a clamp bracket .. basically its a lever out trim.

Its going to be pretty dam tight though and the chances of breaking it are going to be high ... monkey metal .

I cant even find a part number for it .. but i dont have pet here .

pet is probably going to be the best bet .. if you can find the part then the parts fish will show if theres any fixings which i dont think so .
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infrasilver
Fast & Furious
Fast & Furious


Joined: 04 Oct 2010
Posts: 7907
Location: East Midlands

2001 Porsche 996 Targa

PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's not something I have had chance to look at yet but will report back as soon as I work it out.
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infrasilver
Fast & Furious
Fast & Furious


Joined: 04 Oct 2010
Posts: 7907
Location: East Midlands

2001 Porsche 996 Targa

PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

infrasilver wrote:
It's not something I have had chance to look at yet but will report back as soon as I work it out.


Just popped these off today, it was two pins going into plastic clips, I levered them off under the rubber first then eased the rest up, came off quite easily. They are actually aluminium not plastic as I had thought (used a magnet to check originally).





I have prepped with first coat of primer and will base coat and lacquer when I get chance.





There is evidence that water sits at the end of these blades and why they have corroded. Hopefully it helps someone in the future?
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deMort
Zolder


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 5520
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well its helped me as i didnt know how they came off Thumb
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mrcharliechan
Trainee


Joined: 03 Sep 2010
Posts: 93
Location: Berks


PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

I used to be on the 996 forum before scored bores ended that... now the proud/slightly scared owner of a 997.2 Targa 4...

So the first rain in what feels like months and the roof seems pretty tight - there is a bit of moisture along the nylon (?) gauze-y material that compresses when the roof drops - is this normal? I assume the centre plastic piece by the blind is to catch any drips and these are then channeled off to the side where they then run down to the rear drain holes? Is a bit of moisture here normal?

The material seems to sit adjacent to the drain rather than around it - I'll try and upload a photo. In the meantime any comments to calm my nerves are welcome.

Thanks

Charlie
 
  
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deMort
Zolder


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 5520
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You have a fabric cover .. well 4 to be exact .. 2 front and 2 rear and these do get white stains on them .. water causes it basically .. almost normal .. it just means a little more water is getting in than standard but thats what the gutters are for so not a problem as such .. you can always wipe it off with a damp cloth .

The front ones do compress when operateing the roof

The gutter is the other side of these fabric panels .

Rule of thumb with these cars .. if you get damp carpets or if the car mists up inside on the windows in the morning then you have a leak and there are several places they can leak from .. not all are expensive.

Rear leaks are often there for a long time until noticed due to the shear amount of foam under the rear and front carpets .. its a huge sponge basically so the above check with misting will give you an indication .

Slow roof .. hmm .. they are slow normally .. you have to have the engine running and as long as it completes a full cycle open close without stopping then its ok .

There is unfortunatly nothing you can do to speed this operation up .. lubricateing anything is just a short term fix .. it WILL make it worse in the long term.

This thread is more aimed at the bigger problems .. so its kinda like haveing a pain in your back then googleing it .. it will always turn out to be something that you will die from !!!

Any photos are always usefull for me as im working from descriptions other wise when a picture tells me so much more .

De.Mort@virginmedia.com

Email addy in case you cant upload pictures ... ill do it for you .
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mrcharliechan
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Joined: 03 Sep 2010
Posts: 93
Location: Berks


PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 8:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the response. All makes sense. I had a good root around at the back of the car and all seems dry and no condensation inside this morning. There is a bit of crud gathered in various nooks and crannies around the roof that I'm working my way through and the various rubber seals need a clean and bringing back to life. Drain holes appear to be clear from the top at least but we'll see...

Roof operation seems good, neither quick nor slow just a steady speed open and close.

I'll post up some photos over the weekend hopefully.
 
  
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