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Monkeynutz
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Joined: 05 Oct 2016
Posts: 283
Location: Peterborough


PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 2:31 pm    Post subject: 991.2 Sweet spot Reply with quote

Hi all

I have searched the threads regarding trying to assess which 991 model is the sweet spot for those, like me, that are on a limited budget but still have the urge to be in the 911 club.

I have spent hours on the online configuration looking at the various models and not surprisingly find myself easily putting 15k of options while still trying to be conservative-ish but always selecting the S model because in my head that's the one to have.

I recently started to consider a 911.2 having spec'd a 718 Cayman S to £65k which then prompted me to look at the used market. Not may bargains out there currently and the late 997.2 and early 991 market is really strong. I looked online at a 2012 C4S at OPC is only £5k less than a new C2! So back to the configuration tool I go!

The Carrera base model is over £9k less than a S model and only £2.5k less than a Carrera 4. Looking at the comparison charts the gap doesn't seem to justify the price difference. I get the 50hp more in the S models and the option for adding PDCC and SPASM - 20mm ride height etc but for UK road use and my somewhat sedate driving style (most of the time) the base model looks to be just right. Performance figures look impressive in the base model with the only noticeable difference being the 0-100mph at 1 sec with tenths of a second in it at 0-60mph. What am I missing please!?

My very limited knowledge and current train of thought would also lead me to believe that the additional 2.5k for 4WD is probably the sweetspot - allowing for inclusion of PDK, chrono, PSE + trinkets for the similar price as the S model.

Have I missed something that will make me regret not having an S model other than what is my head? I appreciate that older models may have had larger performance differences but it does seem negligible now.

Many thanks
 
  
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T8
General
General


Joined: 29 Jun 2010
Posts: 11873
Location: Kent


PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Take a look at the comparative prices for equivalent mileage 991.1 base and S cars.

The % premium you pay for a used S over a new one actyally increases inferring that residuals on the S are much stronger.

This was always the case with the 997 too. Most of the £££s you save by buying the base car new are eroded with higher depreciation compared to the S.
_________________
2007 Guards Red 997 Turbo Tiptronic
ex 2004 Polar Silver 996T Tiptronic
ex 2002 Seal Grey 996.2 C4 Tiptronic
ex 1978 Silver 924 Manual
 
  
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Monkeynutz
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 05 Oct 2016
Posts: 283
Location: Peterborough


PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

T8 wrote:
Take a look at the comparative prices for equivalent mileage 991.1 base and S cars.

The % premium you pay for a used S over a new one actyally increases inferring that residuals on the S are much stronger.

This was always the case with the 997 too. Most of the £££s you save by buying the base car new are eroded with higher depreciation compared to the S.


Interesting thanks! Previously the engine sizes 3.8 and 3.6 and power delivery were apparently very noticeable so rightly the S would command the premium. I just can't help but thinking that it's perhaps not as justified as it might have been in the new models.

Only one way to really find out and try them back to back I am just trying to equip myself a little before spending some time at the dealer.

thanks again!
 
  
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Robertb
Zolder


Joined: 01 Sep 2003
Posts: 5948
Location: South Oxfordshire

2002 Porsche 996 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A more knowledgeable person than me could no doubt use Man Maths to demonstrate that due to higher residuals an S is only a little more expensive to own over 3 yrs than a Carrera.
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Zen Ben
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 15 May 2016
Posts: 317
Location: Surrey

1998 Porsche 996 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I doubt I will ever be fortunate enough to order a new 911 but something I have learnt along the way is never settle.

You don't want to sit there one day thinking, what if. Just buy an S and be done with it!
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Monkeynutz
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Joined: 05 Oct 2016
Posts: 283
Location: Peterborough


PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zen Ben wrote:
I doubt I will ever be fortunate enough to order a new 911 but something I have learnt along the way is never settle.

You don't want to sit there one day thinking, what if. Just buy an S and be done with it!


Wise words! Smile

I think I am kidding myself with the new option but it's so damn close to the used prices if looking at a few years old that I have to consider it.

I have no idea how the 991.1 stacks up against the 991.2 but I have driven the new C4S and I instantly fell in love with it. Damn those used prices! Bad timing on my part I guess having arrived at the party somewhat late Wink
 
  
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6appeal
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 02 Jan 2016
Posts: 370



PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Monkeynutz wrote:
I think I am kidding myself with the new option but it's so damn close to the used prices if looking at a few years old that I have to consider it.

I have no idea how the 991.1 stacks up against the 991.2 but I have driven the new C4S and I instantly fell in love with it. Damn those used prices! Bad timing on my part I guess having arrived at the party somewhat late Wink


Your descriptions above are pretty much exactly the process I went through... to me, in the end, it made no sense to buy used given the prices of new and the strong residuals, for the way I was buying and running the car. There are lots of factors on this aspect though. Depends on how long you want the car, mileage etc. etc.

Whilst there is no right or wrong answer to this aspect, personally, the Carrera 2 was more than adequate, and hey, seriously, its epic!!! sure you can get an S, you can also get a Turbo, or on and on it goes. Draw the line somewhere where it puts a massive grin on your face and doesn't annihilate your bank balance as its only top-trumps in the reality of life, there's always a bigger fish... The mere 2 goes like absolute stink, and it pushes you into your seat on the slip roads, up to a max of 70 of course.

Go for a test drive!!! Drive a 2, and drive a 4 back to back. I've had 3No 4wd cars, and last couple have been RWD, the 911 has incredible grip. When i did the track day, it felt like the grip of a 4wd car, it was that good. I decided on the reduced cost, & weight Wink You do get the sexier hips with the C4S of course! and a few other bells & whistles as standard.

They're all epic, its a nice problem to have. New, nearly new or used. Always a deal to be had, and don't forget maximum man-maths rules apply. Thumb
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Monkeynutz
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 05 Oct 2016
Posts: 283
Location: Peterborough


PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2016 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

6appeal wrote:

.............

They're all epic, its a nice problem to have. New, nearly new or used. Always a deal to be had, and don't forget maximum man-maths rules apply. Thumb


This, this and this more! Smile Great insight from your post thanks! The test drive I had in the C4S was indeed epic. I drove an Aventador on a track day and didn't like it because frankly it scared the living crap out of me it felt like a 700bhp go-kart! That C4S instantly filled me with confidence and hugged me around the country roads. Them Italian cars ain't built for the taller men Wink

I know there isn't a great deal of love for the new 6 engine but as someone who didn't have anything to base my expectations on other than an M4 it simply blew me away. If the C2 comes even close to how that feels then it's a big win for sure. I can't wait to try the older models and see if I can get close without clearing the piggy bank Smile
 
  
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alpinaB3
Trainee


Joined: 24 Mar 2016
Posts: 54



PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2016 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please delete.
_________________
Current: 911.2 4S
Past: Alpina B3 BiTurbo Coupe (e92) No.268 of 270
http://carscapes.byethost33.com/

Last edited by alpinaB3 on Tue Oct 11, 2016 9:31 pm; edited 1 time in total
 
  
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alpinaB3
Trainee


Joined: 24 Mar 2016
Posts: 54



PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2016 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Monkeynutz wrote:
Zen Ben wrote:
I doubt I will ever be fortunate enough to order a new 911 but something I have learnt along the way is never settle.

You don't want to sit there one day thinking, what if. Just buy an S and be done with it!


Wise words! Smile

I think I am kidding myself with the new option but it's so damn close to the used prices if looking at a few years old that I have to consider it.

I have no idea how the 991.1 stacks up against the 991.2 but I have driven the new C4S and I instantly fell in love with it. Damn those used prices! Bad timing on my part I guess having arrived at the party somewhat late Wink


As 6appeal has previously mentioned there are 'always a deal to be had'. I was able to negotiate a discount with my new S4, It all helps making your hard earned money go that little further. Yes I have to compromise a little on some of the extra optional items. I have seen some 2nd hand 911.2 being priced at dealerships more than I will be paying, and my spec is not basic, such as 18 way sports seats, 4 wheel steering, Chrono pack, Bose sound system, sports exhaust, interior carbon package etc.

All of which I am picking up next week from the dealership.




Video link https://youtu.be/ivratfGRLoU
_________________
Current: 911.2 4S
Past: Alpina B3 BiTurbo Coupe (e92) No.268 of 270
http://carscapes.byethost33.com/

Last edited by alpinaB3 on Thu Oct 13, 2016 12:08 am; edited 1 time in total
 
  
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Monkeynutz
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 05 Oct 2016
Posts: 283
Location: Peterborough


PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2016 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is simply stunning, even with the wrapping on!! Smile That colour and those wheels!!!!!!!! Thumb
 
  
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6appeal
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 02 Jan 2016
Posts: 370



PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2016 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ha! Those photo's, thats practically temptation in your path lol...

Loving the carbon trim.
_________________
Present:
991.2 Carrera, SC, PDK, Toys Smile
Yamaha MT01
VW T2 Bay Window 1976

Past:
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6appeal
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 02 Jan 2016
Posts: 370



PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good review here Wink

https://www.total911.com/turbocharged-carrera-review-one-year-on/

what have you decided then? Thumb
_________________
Present:
991.2 Carrera, SC, PDK, Toys Smile
Yamaha MT01
VW T2 Bay Window 1976

Past:
640d GC, 635d Coupe, RS6 C5, Audi TT 225 Coupe, Astra with wind up windows, Citroen ZX, Rover 213, yes behold, a Rover 213... Renault 5
 
  
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Monkeynutz
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 05 Oct 2016
Posts: 283
Location: Peterborough


PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't decide on anything lol!

Well that's not true, I have booked a meet with OPC next week to rule out the 718. From a price perspective it is easy to see the pros for the Cayman..that is until I a)try to get my 6ft 3ins frame into it and b) start adding options c) residuals will be good but probably not as good as the out going models.

The problem with b is that it takes it to 4 year old well equipped 991.1 C4S and then so close to the new C2. I want to like it for financial reasons but I know I wont but I have the day off so might as well spend it doing more research.

It's all very easy to get carried away with 10 grand here and 10 grand there. PCP makes it all too easy for me to get C4S with about 10K options but I don't have the cash flow to continue the cycle in 3 years time and beyond so that option is losing favour quickly as well as the realisation of true cost of ownership over the period...ouch! PCP at BMW is one thing but PCP at Porsche for anything over 70k is a whole different level without vehicle allowances or owning a business!! Wish I still loved the BMW M4 like I once did as there are no shortage of deals on new ones right now.

So right now I am in stunning Gen2 997 GTS or nice 991.1 territory which I am very happy to be in especially if the hips are wide!! Wink My guess is that the market will be a better place to shop in once a few more new 991.2s land in a few months time and more people trade in so I sit here waiting to pounce at the one that shouts at me the loudest. Oh that and clearing out the rubbish to make space in the garage ha!!!
 
  
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Monkeynutz
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 05 Oct 2016
Posts: 283
Location: Peterborough


PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

6appeal wrote:
Good review here Wink

https://www.total911.com/turbocharged-carrera-review-one-year-on/

what have you decided then? Thumb


Thanks for that review. Great read and not surprisingly very favourable. Guess I will have to keep playing BOTB every week and hope I get the Tuesday visit from William then it's a loaded C4S no question!
 
  
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adi7
Newbie


Joined: 11 Jul 2015
Posts: 25



PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like everything in life contentment is key to happiness. 4 weeks ago i purchased my 09 997.2 carrera from opc. No S badge. Do i care ? Not one bit. I am in a happy place cause i stuck to my budget and avoided buyers regret. Plenty of power, sweet engine, pdk and sports seats. Not bothered about red callipers and barely perceivable bhp gain. Happier with £265 road tax, £340 insurance and good mpg. For me any kind of financial stretch just ruins the ownership experience..
 



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Monkeynutz
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 05 Oct 2016
Posts: 283
Location: Peterborough


PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

adi7 wrote:
Like everything in life contentment is key to happiness. 4 weeks ago i purchased my 09 997.2 carrera from opc. No S badge. Do i care ? Not one bit. I am in a happy place cause i stuck to my budget and avoided buyers regret. Plenty of power, sweet engine, pdk and sports seats. Not bothered about red callipers and barely perceivable bhp gain. Happier with £265 road tax, £340 insurance and good mpg. For me any kind of financial stretch just ruins the ownership experience..


Love it and the car looks great!! I have had to do a bit of soul searching on these forums and with the budget controller to come to any sort of conclusion. It might take 6 weeks or it might take 6 months or even more to find the right one for me but I will know it when I see it whatever it may be. All I know right now is that it will be a 911, it will be my dream car and I will have no regrets Smile

I really do appreciate the input it does help massively!
 
  
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MJA911
Indianapolis


Joined: 10 Dec 2013
Posts: 2369
Location: Berkshire

2010 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looking at your posts overall they've revealed preferences, budget, attitude to residuals etc., to my eyes it's pointing towards a good spec 991.1 C4S for around the £65k mark, but I'm biased as that's what I'd do so please ignore me Thumb
 
  
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Monkeynutz
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 05 Oct 2016
Posts: 283
Location: Peterborough


PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MJA911 wrote:
Looking at your posts overall they've revealed preferences, budget, attitude to residuals etc., to my eyes it's pointing towards a good spec 991.1 C4S for around the £65k mark, but I'm biased as that's what I'd do so please ignore me Thumb


LOL! Pretty much nailed it! Took me a lot longer to work it out though Smile
 
  
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MJA911
Indianapolis


Joined: 10 Dec 2013
Posts: 2369
Location: Berkshire

2010 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not much about but as somebody said, once the 991.2 upgraders start moving there could be a few more, prices are pretty solid, which is good and bad I suppose.
 
  
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