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6appeal
Nürburgring


Joined: 02 Jan 2016
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2016 9:26 pm    Post subject: wax or ceramic coating??? Reply with quote

I've always used wax... new trend seems to be ceramic... what have people experienced with ceramic coatings??
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jonboy
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 30 Dec 2012
Posts: 332
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2016 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GTECH products are good providing very good protection. Depending on the color of the car I think the Carlac sealants take some beating.
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madge
Nürburgring


Joined: 29 Dec 2015
Posts: 376
Location: Hampshire


PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2016 11:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Coatings are superb. Great durability and chemical resistance and the big selling point is resistance against wash marring and swirl marks (although they do not make your car scratch-proof contrary to popular belief).

Dirt, tar, bird sh#t, tree sap etc won't stick to your paint and IMO coatings also really bring out the flake in metallics due to their clarity. Much better for metallics than wax in this respect IMO.

On the downside, they are fairly tricky to apply. I would say that you really need to be a fairly keen and experienced amateur detailer to do it yourself otherwise pay for a professional detailer to do it for you, which can then make it quite costly.

The other main consideration is that your paint should be in VERY good condition before applying a coating. No swirls or scratches because a coating will highlight them and effectively 'lock them in' due it's semi-permanent nature. Another reason for perhaps going down the pro route unless you're handy with a machine polisher yourself.

I had Gyeon MOHS on my last car and it still looked fantastic 3.5 years after I applied it - only very light swirling starting to show. I'm thinking about getting Gtechniq Crystal Serum this time but haven't made my mind up yet as this is pro only application.

So to summarise, coatings are fantastic products but they aren't a quick Sunday afternoon job. If you really hate swirl marks they could be perfect for you but if you're not really fussed about swirls in your paint then you might think that coatings probably aren't worth the time/expense required.
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Slayer
Watkins Glen


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 8:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

G Techniq - Crystal serum. Lasts for a long time, need a professional to get it on. You can get a coating of Exo on top if you wish to have extra gloss and hydrophobicity.

Modesta: very expensive, not many approved guys to do it.

suggest G Techniq 👍
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6appeal
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Joined: 02 Jan 2016
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cheers gents... Two questions:

Does it maintain the beading of water on the car when its rained?

Any issues with age and wear? does it simply wear away? Any issues with re-coating in the future or if you decide to wax?
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DRZ911
Suzuka


Joined: 13 Mar 2013
Posts: 1110
Location: Belfast


PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

6appeal wrote:
Cheers gents... Two questions:

Does it maintain the beading of water on the car when its rained?

Any issues with age and wear? does it simply wear away? Any issues with re-coating in the future or if you decide to wax?


Have had Gtechniq C1 and EXO on my 991.1 since Day 1. It was professionally applied and the car is now 28 months old. Beading is as good today as it was at the start. Have kept topped throughout the period with Gtechniq C2.

When I asked my detailer about the rules for re-application, he reckons this system is good for 5 years minimum. If something else is to replace the C1 and EXO, he says that the coating will have to be machine polished off.

A possibly even better alternative to the C1 and EXO appears to be Gtechniq Crystal Serum, but have no direct experience of it.

Hope this helps.
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isysman
Zolder


Joined: 22 Apr 2011
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm going down this route once my car has had the new roof panel fitted. I had a quote from Swissvax for paint correction, Gtech coating applied and front PPF and it was approx 2.500 GBP
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Slayer
Watkins Glen


Joined: 29 Dec 2010
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Location: United Kingdom


PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

6appeal wrote:
Cheers gents... Two questions:

Does it maintain the beading of water on the car when its rained?

Any issues with age and wear? does it simply wear away? Any issues with re-coating in the future or if you decide to wax?


Crystal serum is a hard coating, it can be machine polished a few times if minor marring etc happens due to washing etc. If applied incorrectly , will need sanding. Best get it done by a good professional detailer. My previous Golf R was messed up by a detailer in the Southwest trying to get the serum on ( claimed to be accredited). Exclusive car care ( Justin) is well recommended if you are in the southwest area.

Exo as an extra coat lasts about 12 to 18 months if careful. My car was silver, did not have Exo on.. Not much you can get out from a silver car in terms of gloss. You can reapply it if it wears off.

For more beading, go for Exo as a top coat

G Techniq claims more than 5 years longetivity for serum. They have crystal light, available freely to buy, looks like the little brother. No experience with that. Slightly cheaper than the serum proper.
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mark pearce
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Joined: 06 May 2004
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I ve been using Zymol waxes on my cars since 2001.
99% of my cars are finished using Vintage wax, the odd, Range Rover, BMW that i sell to my old customers i normally have done with Carbon wax merely as it takes so long to apply the vintage wax by hand to a BMW estate for example.

My detailers are g tech approved so i can offer the facility.

I have tried G tech on some cars, my opinion is

the tech, will last longer and protect the car for longer ,
BUT
the finish is very varnishey, theres not as much depth to the shine as there is with Zymol. g tech have had to modify some of the serums as i found , which they denied for 12 months, which is the main reason i haven't gone down that route, in areas where the atmosphere of has a high salt content, they suffered from water marks that wouldn't go away, as i'm less than half a mile from the sea, i found i had 2 cars tech'd and a fortnight later the water marks wouldn't go away, so the cars were redone and the marks came back again. and then were zymoled.


the water beading properties come from the EXO liquid which is applied last which I'm told should last for about 9 months.

the company to deal with i find are slightly hard sell in their approach, when i tried to buy some they launch into upselling you can charge customers so much, its all about upselling and profit, whereas i'm more i'm looking to buy the product to make my cars look better than everyone elses, they denied all knowledge of the water marks till 18 months later when they sent some samples to my guys and admitted the salt area problem, never mind the £500 id wasted having 2 cars redetailed


so in a nutshell

the finish on with Zymol is deeper, but is harder to maintain as it is a wax and will wash off over time,

the Gtech will last longer, is more expensive, but very varnishy/ wet look and gives a false sort of gloss

Plus is a professional only type of application and some of the prices they try and charge are quite ridiculous

as an alternative to GTech, i have tried some sealants from Maxprotect in kings langley, north west london, small company, a detailer who also sells the product, very helpful and friendly co, who i think details all of JZM's cars
http://max-protect.co.uk

I ve tried it on a midnight Blue 997 and it lasted really well and the shine was deeper and less false than the Gtech,
Plus as the owner is a detailer who also sells the product, he's easier to speak to
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Last edited by mark pearce on Sun Aug 28, 2016 11:35 am; edited 1 time in total
 
  
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madge
Nürburgring


Joined: 29 Dec 2015
Posts: 376
Location: Hampshire


PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You'll find that the beading is different from a wax. The beads are much smaller because the water just won't adhere to the surface like with a wax. It's quite entertaining to watch the water streaming off when your car is parked out in the rain. (I know, small things please small minds Laughing ) You don't need Exo for beading - they will all bead but Exo is an optional 'topper' that will provide a bit more gloss and slickness.

The coatings will wear off over time, but should last at least a couple of years. The amount of time will vary depending on which coating you have and how much abuse it gets from washing, chemicals, daily driving, being parked outside, etc. Obviously the coating on a garage queen will last much longer than on a car that lives a more normal life. You won't see the coating coming off in flakes like a clear coat sometimes does on old cars, there will just be a drop off in performance then you know it's time to re-apply.

You can wax over the top of a coating but it always baffles me when people do this. They've just applied a high tec, high functioning product to their P&J and then they smother it in that outdated gooey stuff that will cause dirt and grime to stick to their paint. Old habits die hard for some I guess.

I'd recommend having glass and wheels done too. These are much easier as a DIY job than the paintwork is. Brake dust virtually slides off of coated wheels.
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6appeal
Nürburgring


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

some really interesting thoughts there... thumbsup

I've had a price of a professional detailer that I have known for years and have used before for a prep and ceramic coating of the car at £450. I used to pay £350 for a detail/wax.
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madge
Nürburgring


Joined: 29 Dec 2015
Posts: 376
Location: Hampshire


PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That sounds like a very good price 6appeal. Thumb Out of interest do you know which coating he would use?


The good thing about doing a new car is that the prep should be relatively minimal, although not always the case (see video below Surprised ). It's usually a good idea to get your detailer on the case as soon as you pick the car up and tell the supplying dealer not to prep the car as they can often do damage to your paint in the process.




Open Youtube Page

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6appeal
Nürburgring


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jeez, thats a shocker. My 4 yr old could do better than that was prepped.

Yes, have had Tony prepare my cars at dealer before collection. He's ex-swissvax, but set up on his own about 10 years ago. He mainly teaches new detailers now it seems, he runs a week long course for new start-ups and is pretty booked up.

He uses his own home-brew ceramic coating, if you want ceramic in lieu of a wax, that needless to say I assume is a re-brand of a main players product and saves paying a licence fee of no value in reality. He's done a couple of my cars, and has always done an immaculate job, whether new or a refresh.
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thedarkknight
Trainee


Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 52
Location: London


PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

6appeal, which Tony? Where is he based? Can he come to London?
My car is arriving very soon. bw,
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gary h
Silverstone


Joined: 05 Feb 2007
Posts: 125
Location: Yorks


PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thedarkknight wrote:
6appeal, which Tony? Where is he based? Can he come to London?
My car is arriving very soon. bw,
DK


I think the OP is referring to Tony Spears who based near Pontefract in West Yorks.

Top bloke who does a top job, just done a paint correction/ceramic coating on my GTS, fabulous finish, recommended! Not sure if he will travel darn sarf to sort your car, give him a buzz. If you go for the full monty, he will require your car for five days!

http://www.autoshinespecialistvaleting.co.uk/apps/location/
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MaxA
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm going to get the paint on my car 'corrected' and prepared for a ceramic sealant rather than just a waxing - there are many other coatings available from the dealers around here, but they only seem to last around a year (at least around here), even for AED 3500. It's at least a two day job, one to do the correction and the detailing, and one to apply the ceramic coating.

I'm going to go with Terry Hilton Automotive here in Dubai who is working with Feynlab on the basis that the Feynlab founders were the ones who actually invented the ceramic concept some 15 years ago (and have until now been licensing their invention to the detailing market).
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6appeal
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^^^^ yes to all that
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alpinaB3
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Joined: 24 Mar 2016
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ceramic coating every time over wax for durability and added protection against swirl marks. On my previous car I had it treated with Swissvax Endurance (PTFE), is this only available via approved detailers. This is a great wax and last over a year excellent for harsh winters, however Ceramic coating lasts 3- 5 years which include Hydrophobic benefits plus provides added protection against swirl makes etc. Some companies try to promote Ceramic coating as providing stone protection coating. I think that is stretching the imagination a bit far.

I am due to pick up my recently delivered 911 S4 from CleanDetail tomorrow. which has had the full Gyeon treatment inside and out plus a full body coverage of Xpel Ultimate stone chip protection film.

Nick has been working on the car in his studio for over 6 working days. I asked the Porsche dealership not to detail car before handover. have arrange CleanDetail would do a full stage 1 machine polish before applying a full body Xpel Ultimate stone chip protection film then for added durability a coating of Gyeon Mohs + which provides a 5 year warranty. Nick is also treating the alloys and the inside of the car with Gyeon Rim (alloys), Gyeon leathershield, Gyeon Fabric and Gyeon View (windscreen protection).

I hope to have some pics soon of the finished result. Here are a few pics during the process.




Nick's website is at http://www.cleandetail.co.uk/
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Last edited by alpinaB3 on Mon Nov 14, 2016 9:10 pm; edited 2 times in total
 
  
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6appeal
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's epic pre-drive prep! Looks awesome.

My last car, first week of driving, had a plastic body panel of some description fly off car in front on fast A road, hit my bonnet, windscreen and roof. Was not impressed, I was lucky with how little damage done considering the noise it made.
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alpinaB3
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Joined: 24 Mar 2016
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 12:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

All ready to go back home after 6 days of detailing work: machine polish, then full panel coverage of Xpel ultimate film and then a top coating of Gyeon Ceramic sealant. The calipers, alloy wheels and inside leather and fabric have all had the Gyeon coating treatment.

One of the benefits of the Xpel film it make the paintwork extra glossy.



Now road legal having a front number plate applied, I chose not to go with the stranded screwed to the bumper black plastic mounting plate.


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