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ch3tman
Hockenheim


Joined: 08 Dec 2012
Posts: 695
Location: South Bucks

1995 Porsche 993 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2016 6:30 pm    Post subject: 200 cell cats vs RSR mufflers Reply with quote

Hi all,

Just weighing up pros/cons of each...

Many appear to have gone down the Carnewal RSR muffler route; has anyone gone down the 200 cell cats route only?

Cannot find a single video of 200 cell cats inserted into an otherwise standard exhaust system... Confused Anyone running with this setup?

The Powerspeed group buy thread saw many owners go for the sport cats, but double them up with either the bypass mod or RSR mufflers. I'm seeking opinions on the sport cats only.

It seems:
- RSRs will result in a great noise, but no performance benefit
- Sport cats will result in improved noise, and a slight performance increase too

Thoughts?


p.s. The car is used frequently, including commuting, and so going for both RSRs + sport cats will probably be overly loud and unsociable, not to mention risk unpleasantries like drone...
 
  
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NottsRS
Barcelona


Joined: 11 Jan 2009
Posts: 1415



PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2016 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe tp81 has a 200 cell with standard rear silencers? I run a 100 cell cat from Gert and rsr silencers and can confirm its not overly loud and there is no drone or resonance. HTH Thumb
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ch3tman
Hockenheim


Joined: 08 Dec 2012
Posts: 695
Location: South Bucks

1995 Porsche 993 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2016 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you - and good to hear there is no drone or resonance with your setup Thumb

NottsRS wrote:
I believe tp81 has a 200 cell with standard rear silencers?

Interesting! I would've thought the RS system wouldn't have needed any mods.... may drop in a PM in case he doesn't respond here.

Also found a post from berni29:

berni29 wrote:
I dislike antisocially loud exhausts, but for me Gerts 100 cell cats in the standard enclosure with standard mufflers is a great solution. The car is pretty noisy at idle, with a very mechanical sound, but does not boom on the motorway, and is pretty quiet when just poodling about. Put your foot down and it sounds fantastic.

Plus you get a power increase. Why change the exhausts and throw away the opportunity of more power?

So sports cats and standard mufflers is my suggestion.

...sounds promising? Smile
 
  
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tp81
Suzuka


Joined: 04 Mar 2010
Posts: 1186
Location: Glasgow

1997 Porsche 993 Carrera 2S

PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2016 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ch3tman,

James dropped me a note regarding your query on the exhausts systems. My car is currently running with a 200 sport cat from Gert and the standard silencers.

You asked the question why change the system on the RS.

I wanted to make sure that the CAT was good (they can deteriorate over time), plus each time I have added the sport cat (c2s and old turbo) I found a noticeable difference to the car. On the C2S is made a huge difference felt like the engine was able to rev easier. The RS is different with the single mass flywheel on mine, the revs flick round already so this benefit wasn't as noticeable.

I can try and take a sound clip and post it on here for you.

My RS is definitely quieter than the turbo or C2S at idle.

It's not subtle with the silencers hollowed out as per the RSR conversion. Its very purposefully and obviously similar but just turns the volume up a notch or two and the engine note is a bit more metallic sounding. I actually like it and might do this with the RS when it goes in for its annual service, in the next week or so. Still a bit undecided. The reason for the reluctance is that the RS is really noisy inside and this for me is better, I don't need to ramp up the exhaust, its already there just a bit more restrained in the background and plays second to the noise of the engine.

My car is only an occasional driver and in all honesty if I was using it every day I might refrain from doing this.

Apologies for rambling on a bit, trying to give you an accurate view on this.

Cheers

Tom
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Pinot
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 03 Feb 2010
Posts: 354
Location: Cotswolds


PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2016 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've got the Powerspeed 200 cell cats with standard silencers. Here's a video clip:



Open Youtube Page


It was done just under four years ago and I've clocked up over 35,000 miles since. Following the installation I said "Initial impressions were that on idle the sound is deeper and louder. Driving home, I also thought that between 3 and 4,000 revs there was a bit more bass than previously, with the usual symphony after that up to the red line. Some gratuitous throttle blipping in a quiet layby when I stopped for a break confirmed there’s also some nice pops and crackles on the overrun."

Still happy with the set up Very Happy
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ch3tman
Hockenheim


Joined: 08 Dec 2012
Posts: 695
Location: South Bucks

1995 Porsche 993 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2016 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tp81 wrote:
Ch3tman,

James dropped me a note regarding your query on the exhausts systems. My car is currently running with a 200 sport cat from Gert and the standard silencers.

You asked the question why change the system on the RS.

I wanted to make sure that the CAT was good (they can deteriorate over time), plus each time I have added the sport cat (c2s and old turbo) I found a noticeable difference to the car. On the C2S is made a huge difference felt like the engine was able to rev easier. The RS is different with the single mass flywheel on mine, the revs flick round already so this benefit wasn't as noticeable.

I can try and take a sound clip and post it on here for you.

My RS is definitely quieter than the turbo or C2S at idle.

It's not subtle with the silencers hollowed out as per the RSR conversion. Its very purposefully and obviously similar but just turns the volume up a notch or two and the engine note is a bit more metallic sounding. I actually like it and might do this with the RS when it goes in for its annual service, in the next week or so. Still a bit undecided. The reason for the reluctance is that the RS is really noisy inside and this for me is better, I don't need to ramp up the exhaust, its already there just a bit more restrained in the background and plays second to the noise of the engine.

My car is only an occasional driver and in all honesty if I was using it every day I might refrain from doing this.

Apologies for rambling on a bit, trying to give you an accurate view on this.

Cheers

Tom


Thanks for your helpful post! Very kind of NottsRS to give you a heads up - many thanks thumbsup.

Sounds like you're a fan of adding *just* the 200 cell cats if you've done it 3 times now Smile. A subtle increase in sound with the engine a little freer revving sounds perfect.

The worry with the RSR route is, as you say, is it not being subtle and quite purposeful. As my car is used frequently, I fear this may be too much. Not ideal if it's been a particularly stressful day at work, or stuck in traffic - both sadly quite common!

2 further thoughts:

- Have you noticed any significant difference between the Gert's cats and the Powerspeed ones?
- In any of the 3 cars you've run the 200 cell sport cat, did you ever experience any drone or resonance? You often read that after exhaust modification, there is a particular RPM range where a strange noise appears, and drivers feel forced to keep revs either below or above it to avoid a headache!

Thanks for the offer of a video, though please don't go to any trouble! Perhaps you can comment on the video Pinot posted, and whether it's a similar sound to yours...

Last edited by ch3tman on Mon Aug 08, 2016 6:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
 
  
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ch3tman
Hockenheim


Joined: 08 Dec 2012
Posts: 695
Location: South Bucks

1995 Porsche 993 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2016 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pinot wrote:
I've got the Powerspeed 200 cell cats with standard silencers. Here's a video clip:



Open Youtube Page


It was done just under four years ago and I've clocked up over 35,000 miles since. Following the installation I said "Initial impressions were that on idle the sound is deeper and louder. Driving home, I also thought that between 3 and 4,000 revs there was a bit more bass than previously, with the usual symphony after that up to the red line. Some gratuitous throttle blipping in a quiet layby when I stopped for a break confirmed there’s also some nice pops and crackles on the overrun."

Still happy with the set up Very Happy


Brilliant - thanks for posting your video! thumbsup The title of it explains why I couldn't find it myself on YouTube puh.

Great to hear you're still happy with it 35k miles on Very Happy it sounds like a nice little upgrade on the factory system. Is your exhaust system definitely standard otherwise? i.e. no bypass mod?

Same question as the previous post; have you noticed any unfavourable noise at any point in the rev range? (that you may have learned to now avoid). I think the resonance you often hear about is typically at cruising speed/revs...

Thanks in advance Thumb
 
  
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tp81
Suzuka


Joined: 04 Mar 2010
Posts: 1186
Location: Glasgow

1997 Porsche 993 Carrera 2S

PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2016 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ch3tman,

No problem, happy to help if I can.

In relation to the 200 cell CAT, I didn't want to risk not passing any sound checks if I track the car. The C2S just made it at Oulton Park with the 200 Cell and the RSR mod. Not particularly keen on it being too loud either.

I have only ever bought from Gert so cant comment.

Never had any drone with or without the RSR.

In relation to the video I would say its fair representation, slightly deeper than in real life. A video tends to muffle some of the mechanical sharp tone.

I took a short clip tonight of mine at idle, no one to press the loud pedal, sorry (perhaps rope my son one night this week). Its not overly loud but nice and purposeful.

https://youtu.be/kgGR_hlTRPs

Don't know how to embed the player? Can someone help?

Cheers

Tom
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Pinot
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 03 Feb 2010
Posts: 354
Location: Cotswolds


PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2016 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Original post deleted following Tom successfully embedding his clip below.
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Last edited by Pinot on Tue Aug 09, 2016 11:53 am; edited 1 time in total
 
  
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Pinot
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 03 Feb 2010
Posts: 354
Location: Cotswolds


PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2016 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ch3tman wrote:

Brilliant - thanks for posting your video! thumbsup The title of it explains why I couldn't find it myself on YouTube puh.

Great to hear you're still happy with it 35k miles on Very Happy it sounds like a nice little upgrade on the factory system. Is your exhaust system definitely standard otherwise? i.e. no bypass mod?

Same question as the previous post; have you noticed any unfavourable noise at any point in the rev range? (that you may have learned to now avoid). I think the resonance you often hear about is typically at cruising speed/revs...

Thanks in advance Thumb


Happy to help.

I originally did the clip for Adam who had the 200 cell conversion done at the same time as me, together with the bypass mod. He subsequently found this too noisy and wanted a comparism. I made the video, put it on YouTube and sent him a link. I didn’t give the title any thought at the time but will see if I can change it to assist future searches.

I confirm my exhaust system is otherwise standard. I do have the motorsound airbox and the car has been remapped by Wayne Schofield.

I can’t say I’ve noticed any unfavourable noise. I do tend to stay away from motorways wherever possible and take the scenic route. However on long Euro trips where motorways are unavoidable there isn’t any droning or resonance.
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tp81
Suzuka


Joined: 04 Mar 2010
Posts: 1186
Location: Glasgow

1997 Porsche 993 Carrera 2S

PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2016 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can you explain the embedded process, can't seem to get this to work?
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Pinot
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 03 Feb 2010
Posts: 354
Location: Cotswolds


PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2016 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I followed the instructions in this thread which is tucked away in the Members Lounge Bar http://www.911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=31747

Hope this helps.
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tp81
Suzuka


Joined: 04 Mar 2010
Posts: 1186
Location: Glasgow

1997 Porsche 993 Carrera 2S

PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2016 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote


Open Youtube Page


Excellent. Thanks
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Pinot
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 03 Feb 2010
Posts: 354
Location: Cotswolds


PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2016 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're welcome.

I'll delete my earlier post embedding your clip.
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NottsRS
Barcelona


Joined: 11 Jan 2009
Posts: 1415



PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2016 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for posting how to embed a video, most helpful Thumb

Hope you don't mind, I thought it might be helpful as a comparison, here's a clip at idle of Gert's 100 Cell CAT inserts with RSR's. There's no drone at all or intrusive cabin noise, a great soundtrack with the windows down at speed and through the gears, but probably not ideal for commuting or stuck in traffic! Very Happy

My phone recording seems to have amplified the bass and overall volume and reduced the metallic sharp tones (as mentioned by tp81 earlier too) and also as they've just been fitted take a couple hundred miles running for them to settle.



Open Youtube Page

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993 RS | Riviera Blue | Lightweight
997.1 RS | RS Grün
-------------------------
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ch3tman
Hockenheim


Joined: 08 Dec 2012
Posts: 695
Location: South Bucks

1995 Porsche 993 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2016 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

2 x RS videos in one thread...worship...stunning!!

tp81 wrote:
Never had any drone with or without the RSR.

In relation to the video I would say its fair representation, slightly deeper than in real life. A video tends to muffle some of the mechanical sharp tone.

I took a short clip tonight of mine at idle, no one to press the loud pedal, sorry (perhaps rope my son one night this week). Its not overly loud but nice and purposeful.

Brilliant, thanks very much for taking time out to post a video Thumb The key is no drone when driving, under load, or at steady cruising. I'm almost sold...

NottsRS wrote:
Hope you don't mind, I thought it might be helpful as a comparison, here's a clip at idle of Gert's 100 Cell CAT inserts with RSR's. There's no drone at all or intrusive cabin noise, a great soundtrack with the windows down at speed and through the gears, but probably not ideal for commuting or stuck in traffic! Very Happy

Don't think anyone is going to mind seeing another RS video! Cool many thanks for posting!

As you say, it's probably just a little too much for a car used, at times, throughout the week. That said, it does sound awesome... angry... but in very, very nice way Smile

Overall, I think I'm leaning towards the more subtle option of the 200 cell cats only. Appreciate the opinions posted thus far!
 
  
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ChrisT70
Albert Park


Joined: 26 Mar 2015
Posts: 1501
Location: The Sea


PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2016 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sure mine is as loud with just the gutted back boxes. I measured it at 102db at 3/4 throttle. Not loud on the move or droning. I'd like to put two cars side by side though and listen for real
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SamUK
Montreal


Joined: 24 Jan 2016
Posts: 537
Location: London


PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 9:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tp81 wrote:
Ch3tman,

No problem, happy to help if I can.

In relation to the 200 cell CAT, I didn't want to risk not passing any sound checks if I track the car. The C2S just made it at Oulton Park with the 200 Cell and the RSR mod. Not particularly keen on it being too loud either.

I have only ever bought from Gert so cant comment.

Never had any drone with or without the RSR.

In relation to the video I would say its fair representation, slightly deeper than in real life. A video tends to muffle some of the mechanical sharp tone.

I took a short clip tonight of mine at idle, no one to press the loud pedal, sorry (perhaps rope my son one night this week). Its not overly loud but nice and purposeful.

https://youtu.be/kgGR_hlTRPs

Don't know how to embed the player? Can someone help?

Cheers

Tom


Tom,

What cat did you get?

whats the RSR mod?

I am looking at cats and possibly a back box but little concerned about passing the noise levels at track days?

Sam
 
  
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graemeho
Nürburgring


Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Posts: 416
Location: Lincolnshire


PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SamUK wrote:
tp81 wrote:
Ch3tman,





whats the RSR mod?



RSR mod is covered here. No black magic to it. Just the right balance of extra noise IMO

http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=104517&highlight=diy+mufflers
 
  
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tp81
Suzuka


Joined: 04 Mar 2010
Posts: 1186
Location: Glasgow

1997 Porsche 993 Carrera 2S

PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2016 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ch3tman, did you make the change?
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