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Bore Scoring - Preventative measures?

volks_womble

Well-known member
Joined
19 Sep 2014
Messages
53
Morning,

Not sure if this should be in this forum, or a more general one as its a more generic issue, but anyway...

I am still trying to evaluate the level risk of the 3.4 vs the 2.7 in the Cayman. Specifically the likelihood of a 50k mile car developing bore scoring issues during my intended ownership of that car as a Daily Driver.

Certainly the dealers I have spoken to have played the issue down, whilst the concensus here on t'internet is that it almost a certain to be a problem. I am sure that the reality is somewhere between the two.

From my point of view, I want a car that is going to be reliable, so am investigating ways to mitigate what risk there might be, without doing an engine rebuild.

Reading Hartech's excellent [url:http://www.hartech.org/docs/buyers guide web format Jan 2012 part 5.pdf]buying guide[/url] gives very resounding arguments for the root cause of the problem. It also suggests a couple ways to reduce the risk before failure actually occurs.

It suggests that swapping the thermostat out for a lower temperature one should bring the operating temperatures down sufficiently to reduce the risk of the localised heating issues that lead to the damage.

It also suggests that there may be additives or more modern nano-tech oils that can reduce the risk too.

The document is dated 2012, so I wondered in the intervening time if anyone has tried these methods, and still had an issue, or if there is now an updated wisdom on the subject?

Thanks :)
Mark
 
Mark, I have fitted both the LTT and have changed to millers nano 10w50 on my 997.1 also as I am sure you have read , warm the car up get it to temp before hooning it. I have owned my car for 3 years done 40k miles as my daily with no issues, infact very few issues at all in 40k miles, probably the most reliable car I have owned and the general cost of Porsche bits is about the same as any other German car audi, bmw etc.

It is considered that the tip box cars potentially suffer more, although mines a tip, this seems to be that the default pull away is second gear and that strains the engine. I have changed the steering wheel to a later model and only drive it in manual mode using the paddle/ rocker option. this means I pull away in first. and have better control over when it changes gear but without the leg ache of a clutch lol. done because I like to drive that way not to try and avoid any engine issues ,but it may or may not help a bit .

When buying its always good to get a borescope done as part of your pre purchase due diligence that way if you know the car hasn't already got it from someone else's use then if you follow the suggested guidelines you can minimise your risk.

Ideal option is to budget £100 pm for a full Porsche warranty up to 14 years on these cars now, then you have total peace of mind.It will need a 111 point check which can also be part of your pre purchase although you may have to pay for that ,but well worth it to know you can straight away put a warranty on it. even if you have to do it 2 or 3 times to find the right car.

Borescore is not a catastrophic engine failure and many many people are not even aware it exists and if they have it and they use a bit more oil every year "well that's no biggy" the cars will continue for 10s of thousands of miles even with borescore with no lose of performance.

Finally remember 500,000 plus cars were built which supposedly might suffer this issue, a few thousand have had it happen and probably no more than 2% of all cars have had rebuilds due to this which in my opinion is very very low odds, your more likely to have an accident than suffer borescore but we don't all talk about wrapping the cars in bubble wrap in case. its just the small number of people who have had it happen are more vocal on the t'internet than the 490,000 minimum, that's its not happened to.

I hope that helps straighten out all the scare stories that indicate every single porsche built between 1994 and 2009 will get borescore and you can't do anything to stop it happening as that's total "BS" :thumb: :grin: :bandit: GOOD LUCK IN YOUR SEARCH KEEP US POSTED. :thumb:
 
Phil,

Thanks for the comprehensive reply, I really appreciate it.

Whilst I realise I run the risk of appearing paranoid, I am just trying to get a handle on what the reality of owning and running a specialist car is, so I am very grateful for the figures you quote around warranty costs as well as scope and scale of the bore scoring problem.

Interestingly you appear to have gone down the route I was thinking which is to get as much done to prevent the problem as possible, and but insure against it as well. It sounds like your car has not been troubled as a result.

I am looking for a manual car, which fits in with your point about the tiptronic gearbox being worst hit, although I had not really considered the option of running it as a dedicated semi auto. I have never got on with paddles/buttons in the past...

I appreciate that all cars have problems. some are easier/cheaper to sort out than others. I ran a 1.8 k-series petrol freelander for 3 years with no head gasket issues whatsoever and that is a far more widespread issue... rebuilding a k-series is a rather different proposition to rebuilding an M97 though... ;)

Cheers
Mark
 
A PCGB friend of mine has a manual 3.4 Cayman gen 1 and despite religiously sticking to the maintenance schedule, plus annual oil changes, discovered bore scoring.

A well known local dealer I know and use won't buy used 3.8 997.1 cars at all because of the risk of bore scoring.

I personally wouldn't consider either without a Porsche warranty.

Chris.
 
Hi Mark , glad that helped a bit , Yes I went down the route of preventative but to be honest that was just the bonus the LTT was in conjunction with fitting a smaller underdrive pulley to make the pwer steering a bit heavier and to convert the unused energy into BHP at the wheels, and the oil was because people were saying that higher mileage cars like thicker oil it reduces risk of leaks , improves MPG , keeps the engine cooler.
So I did have other motives for doing those thing.
Whether you go for a 911, boxter, caymen you will have a lovely car and it should not be silly money to maintain and run this is why they are such good cars as they really are every day cars unlike the italian exotics or the astons. which will be painful as every day cars I speak from experience lol.
I had never got along with paddles on previous cars as they are left down and right up, as are the newer porsche paddles. But the 997.2 and equivalent cayman/boxter steering wheels have nice ergonomic rockers which allow you to change up or down from either one (see pic) and it works really well for me.
Don't let the scare stories put you off, there is nothing like driving a Porsche the 911 has lots of very good points as do the mid engined cayman and boxter. There will always be a few on here and other forums with scare stories but as you say there something that's an issue with most cars and the cup half empty guys can always get a bus lol.
If your anywhere near Bournemouth your welcome to drop in for a run in mine, I know its not what your looking for but will give you an idea of the rockers etc.
:thumb: :grin:
 

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A mate of mine recently bought a Cayman S and before he'd even driven it (after the all clear on a bore score scope with PPI) I fitted an LTT to it, it is the first thing you should do. After that just follow what Hartech have mentioned regarding warming up, oil changes etc.

This is no guarantee it'll never happen but will lessen the odds.
 
You could just buy a 964 :p
 
spyderman said:
A PCGB friend of mine has a manual 3.4 Cayman gen 1 and despite religiously sticking to the maintenance schedule, plus annual oil changes, discovered bore scoring.

My understanding of the problem is that it is design related, so in order alleviate it, you will need to change something that affects how the engine is working, so regular maintenance is not sufficient... That seems to be borne out by your comment too.
 
Phil 997 said:
If your anywhere near Bournemouth your welcome to drop in for a run in mine, I know its not what your looking for but will give you an idea of the rockers etc.
:thumb: :grin:

Phil, I am almost tempted to come for a run down that way anyway ;) Thanks
 
infrasilver said:
A mate of mine recently bought a Cayman S and before he'd even driven it (after the all clear on a bore score scope with PPI) I fitted an LTT to it, it is the first thing you should do. After that just follow what Hartech have mentioned regarding warming up, oil changes etc.

This is no guarantee it'll never happen but will lessen the odds.

Precisely what I am after. Reading the Hartech doc it states that the 'stat swap is quite involved. Can you give any idea of parts/time cost to do so?
 
kp964 said:
You could just buy a 964 :p

oddly, it has got me looking at other 911 based options... I still need to have something I can do 15-20k miles per year in over 4 years for sub £20k really...
 
volks_womble said:
spyderman said:
A PCGB friend of mine has a manual 3.4 Cayman gen 1 and despite religiously sticking to the maintenance schedule, plus annual oil changes, discovered bore scoring.

My understanding of the problem is that it is design related, so in order alleviate it, you will need to change something that affects how the engine is working, so regular maintenance is not sufficient... That seems to be borne out by your comment too.

I would agree with that thought , as most cars get the maintenance schedule followed as a minimum, it's things like how you warm it up, fitting known aids LTT, milllers nano oil , annual oil changes or even better with a daily every 8/10k miles as its only £100 for 10 ltrs of millers when on offer from opie oil.I also think the amount the car gets driven also affects things ie , low miles high day and holiday cars will get more issues than regularly driven cars like daily's.
It's those things that will help minimise the risks.
but I accept if you are unlucky anything can happen to anyone however careful. but we would never get out of bed if we worried about it.

:thumb: :grin:
 
volks_womble said:
Phil 997 said:
If your anywhere near Bournemouth your welcome to drop in for a run in mine, I know its not what your looking for but will give you an idea of the rockers etc.
:thumb: :grin:

Phil, I am almost tempted to come for a run down that way anyway ;) Thanks

Your welcome mate let me know. :thumb:
 

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