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orangecurry
Donuts For Windows


Joined: 13 Mar 2008
Posts: 9628
Location: West Sussex


PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Mads - my point is that if it is engine/cylinder issue, then the first garage ARE up to the task.

Why take it all that distance, especially if there is a real engine issue?

And CJ - I would go to Sid rather than Precision, exactly because you are paying for their facilities, whereas with Sid you are only paying for his extensive knowledge.

My opinion Smile
 
  
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madalaa
Yas Marina


Joined: 13 Mar 2008
Posts: 8827
Location: West London

1995 Porsche 993 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 7:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OC ....... I just think the issue should have been sorted after the length of time they had the car ....... and yes I would agree that Sid would also be a good option as he has an excellent reputation but still would not hesitate in using Precision even if it costs a few quid more.

Let's hope Cam gets a good result as it must be somewhat of a worry for him.
 
  
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cambjones
Barcelona


Joined: 20 Apr 2010
Posts: 1387


1997 Porsche 993 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Decisions, decision... Thanks for your opinions guys, helps me consider all options.
 
  
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dommorton
Zolder


Joined: 16 Mar 2008
Posts: 5032


1998 Porsche 993 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What an awful situation to end up in. I hope it's all resolved soon and without too much extra cost.
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highway
Albert Park


Joined: 08 Nov 2007
Posts: 1659



PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 12:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cam, a wise chap named Colt frequents and occasionally posts on this forum. He was on the Dinslaken trip earlier this year and has extensive experience working on air cooled.

LondonRob's car had an issue on the trip which he resolved quickly. The man knows his spuds from his onions. Perhaps the highest praise is that Dom Morton has used his skills on the Domobile itself.

I would PM him and ask him to have a look. He may travel. The Precision chaps are good as well. I feel your pain.
 
  
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dommorton
Zolder


Joined: 16 Mar 2008
Posts: 5032


1998 Porsche 993 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 7:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Colt AKA Christian is very simply the most dedicated and knowledgeable 993 doctor I've ever met. He's overseen the care of my cars for years in his role at a known Indy in Wilts, but has now gone it alone and will be very successful indeed I am sure.

I've seen him work out and fix things others have failed to many times over. I'd say his main quality is not to jump to conclusions. He considers every move like a chess master.
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HPNer
Hockenheim


Joined: 25 Jun 2014
Posts: 680
Location: Cardiff


PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whilst Precision are top notch, as are Ninemeister, I've seen Christian's thought processes at first hand, and my car's going to him from now on . . . no greater praise etc . . .
Thumb Thumb Thumb
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cambjones
Barcelona


Joined: 20 Apr 2010
Posts: 1387


1997 Porsche 993 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey guys. Thanks for the comments.

I bit the bullet this morning and took it to Precision. I met Jonny and I got a good feeling they are going to attempt to minimise effort/cost which I think may have been some people's concerns that jobs escalate easily.

Whilst they want to diagnose themselves they will leverage prior work investigations done by other garages. Jonny also highlighted that 993s typically have bulllet proff engines and very rarely need a rebuild. He also touch on a few examples of simple things that can be done to avoid large jobs.

So I feel reassured they have my interests at heart and time will tell. I've asked them to document with photos what they find. I'm a hopeless mechanic and half my enjoyiment with my 993 is the education process.

We chatted for some time about prior work done, mods I've done which could be a variable. Also as we chatted it became apparent the issues I have are mainly when the car is running hot.

Anyway I do feel pretty disloyal not going back to 911 SBD beause they weren't bad. However I get the feeling Raj is a professional and whilst disappointed I've gone elsewhere I bet he'll be willing to help if Precision need to call him.

Anyway I'll update as I go. I just hope it turns out to be something simple/cheap.

Christian also sounds the goods. Where is he based now he's out on his own. It must cost him a lot to buy all the equipment to set up shop. Good for him. I've seen him post some very insightful comments on here for others. If I was under less time pressure I might have been able to consider him too.

By the way. It started up well, a bit bumpy for the first 20 seconds and then ran perfectly all the way (40m) to Precision. Felt tight as a nuns nasty. But knowing it failed emissions I know there is some deeper issue.
 
  
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NIBrown
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 10 Oct 2010
Posts: 329
Location: South Wales


PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was lucky that ECP were doing a special offer at the time and was able to get the OEM leads, caps and rotors for under £300 all in. Not too bad a saving for a day’s work and some skinned knuckles. Dont know

ECP are doing 30% off at the moment, but leads and caps still cost £362.58, is this a good price??
Or, should I hang on a bit longer to see if they do a better deal over the next year?
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graemeho
Nürburgring


Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Posts: 391
Location: Lincolnshire


PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2016 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Car parts saver have them on offer on the bay for £244.99

From what I remember these are just ecp under a different guise
 
  
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Millomboy
Suzuka


Joined: 10 Dec 2012
Posts: 1012
Location: Hampshire

1997 Porsche 993 Targa

PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Any news/update? Will be at Precision on Saturday morning, so can take it for a test drive for you, if it sorted by then.
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cambjones
Barcelona


Joined: 20 Apr 2010
Posts: 1387


1997 Porsche 993 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes I have an update.. just not found time to write it up correctly... this bloody day job I've got that pays for it Smile

long story short.

Precision, identified the issue and 90% resolved it with two new injectors and a new O2 sensor. However there is an oil leak issue that I'll have to deal with at some point in the future, so I'll have to save and schedule that work next year.

Precision's experience shined through in their effort. They are very thorough, and now I know exactly what the issue is, rather than, we think we fixed it, just drive around and see how it goes.

Who ever tested the injectors for the last garage missed it... I've not called SBD yet but they need to know their testers missed this, and therefore cost me money. I know they did not intentionally miss this... and they had another garage look at my car... but reality is, precision got to the bottom of it in a week.

I'll provide more detail when I get a chance in the next few days.

PS I think the work might be finished by Saturday but I won't be able to pick it up till the following week so feel free to give my car some loving pats for me Smile
 
  
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Millomboy
Suzuka


Joined: 10 Dec 2012
Posts: 1012
Location: Hampshire

1997 Porsche 993 Targa

PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glad it's sorted. Will show it some tlc on Saturday.
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orangecurry
Donuts For Windows


Joined: 13 Mar 2008
Posts: 9628
Location: West Sussex


PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bit weird though.... what caused just two of the injectors to fail? Do they have any theories? Bad petrol is rather rare these days? Dont know

Don't forget to make sure Precision keep the old injectors and you can pass them onto Raj.
 
  
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cambjones
Barcelona


Joined: 20 Apr 2010
Posts: 1387


1997 Porsche 993 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good question OC, I'll find out.

Yes they have the old injectors for me.
 
  
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wpozzz99zSS
Monza


Joined: 07 Sep 2014
Posts: 192
Location: London


PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It does seem odd to me, if the car was playing up that would have shown the injectors up on the Bosch hammer.
I thought the injectors were checked over and an 02 sensor is an easy switch.

I can't see how these things were missed the first time round.

I appreciate these cars are not over technical, I assumed your issues were down to an erratic map as the hardware is easy to check.
 
  
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orangecurry
Donuts For Windows


Joined: 13 Mar 2008
Posts: 9628
Location: West Sussex


PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shirley the sensible thing to do would have been to replace the O2 sensor, then test drive?

If that's what they did then whoopee.

But I've never heard of injector problems on the 993 before?

(pops off to Rennlist)
 
  
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Junky
Silverstone


Joined: 24 Jun 2013
Posts: 121
Location: Essex


PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting and informative read..
Hopefully when you pick it up she'll
run like brand new with no further woes.. thumbsup
Thanks for sharing..
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cambjones
Barcelona


Joined: 20 Apr 2010
Posts: 1387


1997 Porsche 993 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

orangecurry wrote:
Shirley the sensible thing to do would have been to replace the O2 sensor, then test drive?

If that's what they did then whoopee.

But I've never heard of injector problems on the 993 before?

(pops off to Rennlist)


Don't call me Shirley.

They did loads of tests first to rule things out (unfortunately for my wallet this was redoing work, but as it turns out necessary, and Precision also didn't charge me for all the hours the spent!)

Here is some of the work they carried out before they tested the injectors... They didn't go straight to the injectors as I'd told them they had just been tested and came back with a clean bill of health.

They knew cylinder one had an issue as the spark was fouled. They carried out a full test plan of the engine fuel and electrical.

They replaced the O2 sensor but it was still failing emissions. They traced all the wiring back to the DME I.E all voltages earths and resistances.

They carried out a hot engine leak down test number 1 cylinder has 10% leakage, the others are all below this reading. They said that was not high but due to the oil contamination they felt there was an internal fault; either valves, piston rings or bore pick up . They were leaning more towards a valve issue but would need to dismantle the engine to be 100% certain.

In addition, they carried out a smoke test to make sure there wasn’t have any air leaks.

They did pre and post cat tests to understand the effect of my FabSpeed 200 cell cats... The fabspeed has the O2 sensor on one side, not in the middle which makes it imperfect.

They put video cameras in there to see what was happing (I can't remember exactly where.)

Then as one last check before embarking on a rebuild to fix the oil leak they swapped out the injectors with ones they had in the shop. And emissions when right down to acceptable levels.

So the said I didn't have to do the rebuild unless I wanted to address the oil leak immediately. I think they said it was likely a valve issue. But the car is now fine to drive and passes emission tests.

I'm going to drive it and then get the oil leak fixed in the oil leak fixed next year, spread the costs out a bit.

What gives me comfort is the problem is no longer 'unidentified', I know what the oil leak issue is and I can plan to get it fixed and it's not urgent.

 
  
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sam
Monza


Joined: 01 Mar 2009
Posts: 153



PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very odd this tale of woe! make sure someone changes the fuel filter if you have been running stale fuel it will contain a lot of water....the merest hint will corrode your injectors and cause failure, although as has been mentioned have not heard of many injector failures in these engines. The best guy I know on A/C engines is Eddie Bennett @ Silvertune in Christchurch, he has been working on Pcars for only 35 years!! used to work for/with Charles Ivey and Bob Watson back in the day! He has forgotten more than most will ever know about a/c cars.

Last edited by sam on Sat Oct 08, 2016 8:56 pm; edited 1 time in total
 
  
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