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Pip1968
Suzuka


Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 1061
Location: Blighty


PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 9:21 am    Post subject: Comfort to Clubsport for GT3s Reply with quote

As my 996 GT3 is a keeper and the RS are beyond reach I was looking at 997 GT3s. I am not sure what the proportion of UK Comfort verses Clubsport is but a lot for sale seem to be Comfort specification. This of course may be due to the 'fact' that 'nobody wants them' over a Clubsport.

So what sort of cost are we looking at to convert them to the dark side? Presumably it is really just the seats and roll cage (oh and fire extinguisher). Is there a Porsche Tequipment cage for the 997? What about the full 'ish' ie can you get a Clubsport cage from Porsche? Presumably it would need to be welded in. Is the cost overly prohibitive - ripping the carpets out et cetera.

What about full cages for the 996 GT3? Do Porsche sell these or is the only way of getting one through a Clubsprt or RS write off (assuming it is still useable).

I know the bucket seats come up for sale once in a blue moon. What are they £1,500 each??

Anyone have much experience of conversions?

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NXI20
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Joined: 02 Feb 2008
Posts: 3229
Location: South Bucks

2004 Porsche 996 GT3 Mk2

PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Neither 996 nor 997 cages are welded. They attach via welded floor plates & captive bolts at the base of the A pillar & B pillar & to the top of the read struts via the bolts that hold the top mounts in place. Cages are available new from Gert or FVD. They occasionally come up s/h on ebay & PH etc. The Tequipment cage looks gash to me & isn't much more that a blinged up harness bar. It isn't nearly as strong as the CS cage.

Alternatively, these guys will build you a cage to your specs for sensible money:
http://www.wiechers-sport.de/en/shop/ueberrollbuegel-kaefige/produkte/porsche-996-clubsport-detail

Clubsports have different carpets to accommodate the cage & they're likely to be difficult to find s/h.

996 Recaro bucket seats are becoming harder to find now that the supply of new ones has dried up. Expect to pay at least £3K for a pair in good condition. You'll need the mounts & sub-bar too. The Recaro Pole Position is a good alternative if you can't find genuine 996 ones. Don't be tempted by the Chinese copies, they are terrible!

You will be looking at around £1K in labour + parts to modify the floor & fit the cage / seats. What you pay for everything else is a matter of luck - it could be as little as £4K & as much as £10K+. You are unlikely to see this back when you sell as it will always be converted car.
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2004 GT3 CS in Atlas Grey with too many mods to list!
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cheshire911
Paul Ricard


Joined: 10 Jun 2012
Posts: 3407



PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Installing these bits into a Comfort does not a Club Sport make.
The cost to change is high and as another poster has said, you'll not get that back because its still a converted car.

But if it pleases you to have a converted Comfort spec GT3 you should do it.
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Disco
Estoril


Joined: 13 May 2008
Posts: 3597
Location: Hertfordshire

2010 Porsche 997 GT3

PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NXI20 wrote:

996 Recaro bucket seats are becoming harder to find now that the supply of new ones has dried up.


Teile.com seem to have secured the entire global supply of new 996 buckets and they are available in Clubsport fabric and all of the standard leather colours. Their prices for new ones start at €2400 per seat though...

I know of no other supplier who has stock though and used ones are indeed becoming extremely hard to find in the open market.
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Black 997 GT3 3.8 CS - Acquired for the 2012 season and beyond
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Pip1968
Suzuka


Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 1061
Location: Blighty


PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are you being pernickety Cheshire911 or is there actually more to a Clubsport than its furniture - LWFW/ modified OEM suspension ??

I am happy that most modifications will not pay back and I would be better off returning her to standard 'IF' I were to ever sell.

Any takers on numbers of GT3 997 Comfort to Clubsport?

Nick as ever a font of knowledge.

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cheshire911
Paul Ricard


Joined: 10 Jun 2012
Posts: 3407



PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pip - no I'm not being pernickety and without wanting to go down a checklist of differences between the CS and Comfort Model (there are more differences than meets the eye), I'm just wondering, if you would like a Clib Sport, as Tony Blair might put it, "there's a third way, and its this":

"Have you considered or done the calculation of the cost-of-change to hand your car to a specialist in part-ex for a Club Sport model?"

Seems to me prima facie that the cost to convert a Comfort to a Club Sport look-alike is not inconsiderable? It might not be a million miles off a cost-to-change to a Club Sport Model entirely? But I have no idea of prices for these GT3's, what your car is worth and its condition/history/mileage so I could be talking rubbish, and the sums may be in your favour to create a look-alike and convert it back to Comfort if/when you come to sell.

Its just another angle if there is a desire to have a Club Sport given the value of RS is way over and above a stock Club Sport.

That's the end of my contribution on this matter. GT3 owners may be able to add value and build or demolish this "third way" suggestion. Good luck with whichever path you choose.
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NXI20
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2004 Porsche 996 GT3 Mk2

PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cheshire911 wrote:
Pip - no I'm not being pernickety and without wanting to go down a checklist of differences between the CS and Comfort Model (there are more differences than meets the eye)


Really? Care to list what you think those hidden differences are? I have the sales brochures for the 996.2, 997.1 & 997.2 GT3 and none of them mention any differences on the 996.2 & 997 GT3 between a comfort & CS beyond seats, cage, carpet, fire extinguisher & the non-fitted driver's 6-point harness. The CS was a zero-cost option on these cars & is effectively cosmetic changes only. They didn't even get the engine cutoff or the single piece flywheel that the 996.1 CS got; the latter was reserved for the RS versions. The drivetrain, suspension & brakes are identical between the comfort & CS.

Porsche don't differentiate between comfort & CS in their sales figures, but I've always understood the split to be roughly 3 comforts for every CS sold. They are certainly rare cars, rarer than the RS versions of the same model & they don't come up for sale all that often as their owners usually know what a gem it is & won't part with theirs unless they are forced to.
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Senoj
Zolder


Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 5011
Location: Sussex


PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only permanent change to a non clubsport car, 996 or 997 , would be the welding in of the captive nut mounting plates for the cage and some cut outs in the carpet. Done nicely i dont see why that would put any future buyer off. For the cut outs you could keep the cut out bits and stick them back in at some point in the future.
 
  
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NLW73
Imola


Joined: 27 May 2014
Posts: 841
Location: Yateley


PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NXI is your oracle on this one Pip. not a 96 turbo owner.

Nick is spot on with the additional elements to a clubbie for 996 mk2 and 997 versions.

lots of people on here change their cars to look like a GT2 or a GT2 RS for example.

sticking a GT2 rear spoiler and aero kit along with de coupling the 4wd does not make a turbo a GT2 but people do it as they want it.

I would just go for it.
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Roro
Long Beach


Joined: 01 Oct 2010
Posts: 6117



PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I looked into turning mine into a Clubsport a year or so ago. In the end, I decided it wasn't worth the outlay try to do a Clubsport looky-likey, because as NXI explained above, I'd never get the money back if I ever sell. Also, the car would never be an official "Clubsport", so I wouldn't be able to ever sell it as such if the time came. In the end I looked at what my objective was, and that was just to make the car more track focussed. So I added an Agency Power cage/harness bar and Recaro PP buckets and that gave the car about 80% of what I needed. The other 20% (harness) is hopefully being done soon, and then after that I'll get the Cup steering wheel fitted. I couldn't see the point spending £4/5k on the Clubsport's seats, when the Recaro PP are practically the same thing. Hope this helps....
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CB
Monza


Joined: 09 Sep 2014
Posts: 190
Location: Cambs


PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2016 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyone with a club will say that... But it was just an option... An option that could be retrofitted one month after delivery and it wouldn't affect the value IMHO.

But each to their own... I say do it and enjoy it mate.
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NXI20
Approved Trader


Joined: 02 Feb 2008
Posts: 3229
Location: South Bucks

2004 Porsche 996 GT3 Mk2

PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2016 11:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CB wrote:
Anyone with a club will say that... But it was just an option... An option that could be retrofitted one month after delivery and it wouldn't affect the value IMHO.


Your HO doesn't really enter into it. The market decides these things & the fact is that a genuine CS is worth more than the equivalent comfort or converted comfort to CS spec.

While this is in no way logical, the market has decided & that's how it is.

I have no problem with people doing it, but I think it's only fair to point out that the outlay will not be fully recouped when the car is sold.
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2004 GT3 CS in Atlas Grey with too many mods to list!
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nick w
Zolder


Joined: 02 Feb 2009
Posts: 5161
Location: Kent

2010 Porsche 997 GT3 RS

PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2016 6:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NXI20 wrote:
CB wrote:
Anyone with a club will say that... But it was just an option... An option that could be retrofitted one month after delivery and it wouldn't affect the value IMHO.


Your HO doesn't really enter into it. The market decides these things & the fact is that a genuine CS is worth more than the equivalent comfort or converted comfort to CS spec.

While this is in no way logical, the market has decided & that's how it is.

I have no problem with people doing it, but I think it's only fair to point out that the outlay will not be fully recouped when the car is sold.


+1...did the partial conversion on my then new comfort 997 GT3 gen 2. I paid
a kings ransom for a pair of new buckets from my OPC, who then removed
the standard seats and refitted the buckets. Being a virtually brand new car
it really had to be done by them to not incur any future warranty issues.
I eventually sold the original seats on....and what I should have done was refit
them and sell the buckets off either singly or as a pair...

When I moved the car on, I'd say that at the time the buckets would have
made the car easier to sell but I had no financial gain over the comfort seats.
In hindsight I should have specc'ed the car for tracking when I ordered it...but
back in early 2009 I had yet to meet 'those who should not be named on here'. Floor
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Roro
Long Beach


Joined: 01 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2016 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doesn't a Clubsport have a different factory code too? Anyone looking for a Clubsport would be able to tell just by looking at the codes on the spec sheet whether the car left the factory as a Clubsport or not. I'm not sure whether dealer fitted options would carry the same kudos in the eyes of collectors
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NXI20
Approved Trader


Joined: 02 Feb 2008
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Location: South Bucks

2004 Porsche 996 GT3 Mk2

PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2016 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, the code for a Clubsport is 003. As per my observation & Nick's confirmation, it's only the factory Clubsport that commands the premium over the others.
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2004 GT3 CS in Atlas Grey with too many mods to list!
1995 993 GT2 recreation in Polar Silver
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Stuart
General
General


Joined: 16 Sep 2007
Posts: 5026
Location: Waterworld

2004 Porsche 996 GT3 Mk2

PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2016 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can also confirm the above, and insurance assessors will value a clubsport higher if that 003 can be proved.
 
  
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Senoj
Zolder


Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 5011
Location: Sussex


PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2016 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Which is all good news for those that dont want one and prefer the "comfy" one. I had one and it wasnt that comfy though.
 
  
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isysman
Zolder


Joined: 22 Apr 2011
Posts: 5469
Location: Cheshire


PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2016 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Club sport is usually this:



If he converted it it wouldn't really be a 'lookalike' as its still a genuine GT3. And if he sold it (which he said it was a keeper) he could market it as a club sport conversion.

If you're like me and have no intentions of ever selling (as long as I can afford to keep it) then resale shouldn't be a worry.
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Pip1968
Suzuka


Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 1061
Location: Blighty


PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2016 11:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As has been pointed out it is a keeper so not overly worried about resale. I should also say that it has a Tequipment half cage and Porsche Recaro buckets and the OEM fire extinguisher oh and a Manthey RS spoiler. On top of that it has been resprayed throughout in Riviera Blue and now a Cup PU so am sure any losses have already been incurred. I will of course keep the bits I replace but who cares really - ??

These cars should not really be factory replicas and kept in cotton wool. It is all very well having a beautiful wife but personally if there is no intercourse what is the point - ?? When and if it ever makes it to a historical collectable then I am quite sure the new owner will love chasing around after original carpets (uncut for an OEM cage) et cetera.

Was not a mauve/ maroon Carerra 2.7 RS found in Trinidad recently? I also believe apart from the state it was in was also not in complete OEM condition.

These are fabulous cars built to drive fast and enjoyed. I will see how far I want to go and how much I want to spend but either way, I want to get the maximum smiles from it. No interfering aids and total connection to the road. Subsequent iterations have moved further and further away from what the 996 was. I think the fact that Nick W has kept his 997 RS despite having a 991 says it all.

Sorry, slightly off at tangents there.

Pip Smile Smile Smile
 
  
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Disco
Estoril


Joined: 13 May 2008
Posts: 3597
Location: Hertfordshire

2010 Porsche 997 GT3

PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isysman wrote:
Club sport is usually this:




I am going to be pedantic only for the sake of completeness, but all Clubsports have nomex seats (not leather) until the 991 (the first time that it was possible to optionally order a CS with leather seats, which is what the picture is of) unless they were specially ordered as Exclusive cars out of Werk 1.

[Footnote: until the GT2RS and 4 litre 997, this was also true of all 996 and 997 RSs except 997s with the cage delete option].
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