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T8
General
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Joined: 29 Jun 2010
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Location: Kent


PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 1:46 pm    Post subject: Why do people still persist with manual cars? Reply with quote

I've just got back from a 4 day break in Jersey during which time I did 155 miles in a brand new Vauxhall Corsa. The 3 cylinder 1 litre Turbo is all you need in an island where 30 mph is the norm and the national speed limit is 40 so I had no issues with lack of power.

The biggest thing for me was the fact that it had a manual gearbox. It all functioned very well and I was very pleased that I didn't stall or find myself in the wrong gear once but it only took me a couple of hours to start asking the question ...... Why, in the 21st Century, would anybody choose to buy a manual car for everyday use?

NB: I'm not attempting to reignite any Manual v Tiptronic/PDK debate so I'm not referring to sporty type cars I'm querying why so many 'ordinary' car drivers choose to buy a three pedal car.

Once upon a time small-engined automatic cars were rare and the ones that did exist were horrid to drive. Nowadays however most cars are available with a 2 pedal option and almost all perform well enough for the lack of 'ccs' not to be an issue. Despite this, every day, I witness people (especially oldies and women) crunching their changes, rolling back on slopes and struggling to manoeuvre when parking and they really can't enjoy 'stop-starting' in traffic.

It's 12 years now since I last owned a manual car although I have still driven them occasionally but it was only this week that I really got to thinking how, for 90% of people, it just doesn't make sense.

It got me wondering as to why UK car owners have never cottoned on to automatics for regular use.

Thoughts Question
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ex 2004 Polar Silver 996T Tiptronic
ex 2002 Seal Grey 996.2 C4 Tiptronic
ex 1978 Silver 924 Manual
 
  
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MisterCorn
Zolder


Joined: 08 Jan 2011
Posts: 5386
Location: Nottingham, England

2004 Porsche 996 Turbo

PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess that price has something to do with it. The PDK type ones are generally more expensive (about £500 on a Corsa). There is probably still some perception that they are not as good, and some people just don't like them. My wife only likes to drive a manual car. My usual daily drivers are all autos, my sportier cars are all manual (except for the CSL which was never available with three pedals).

MC
 
  
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Shurv
Albert Park


Joined: 09 Jan 2013
Posts: 1685
Location: Northampton


PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cos they're crap, that's why. My company car is an auto, and it's awful, it never changes gear when I want it to, always when it wants to, and I have to drive it in manual mode on the paddles. I didn't spec it myself, it was what was available at the time, so when it goes, I'll spec a manual next time.
I can understand why an auto is perfect for Jersey, in fact a hybrid would be even better, a Toyota Yaris Hybrid for example, but not for me any tine soon.
I had an argument with my brother who loves auto's ,and he said I needed to learn how to drive the gearbox. Bollx to that, the heart and soul of a car is it's engine, and I want to drive that, not the flippin gearbox.
To be fair, if I lived and did 95% of my driving in a city, I'd have an auto, but I don't, so I'll pass on auto's for as long as I can.
Auto's suit big lazy engines, not so small, more frenetic ones, so I guess it depends upon the installation. Only my own feelings you understand, I guess my driving style doesn't suit auto's. Thumb
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Boba fett
Kyalami


Joined: 14 May 2015
Posts: 1886



PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 2:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Why do people still persist with manual cars? Reply with quote

T8 wrote:
I've just got back from a 4 day break in Jersey during which time I did 155 miles in a brand new Vauxhall Corsa. The 3 cylinder 1 litre Turbo is all you need in an island where 30 mph is the norm and the national speed limit is 40 so I had no issues with lack of power.

The biggest thing for me was the fact that it had a manual gearbox. It all functioned very well and I was very pleased that I didn't stall or find myself in the wrong gear once but it only took me a couple of hours to start asking the question ...... Why, in the 21st Century, would anybody choose to buy a manual car for everyday use?

NB: I'm not attempting to reignite any Manual v Tiptronic/PDK debate so I'm not referring to sporty type cars I'm querying why so many 'ordinary' car drivers choose to buy a three pedal car.

Once upon a time small-engined automatic cars were rare and the ones that did exist were horrid to drive. Nowadays however most cars are available with a 2 pedal option and almost all perform well enough for the lack of 'ccs' not to be an issue. Despite this, every day, I witness people (especially oldies and women) crunching their changes, rolling back on slopes and struggling to manoeuvre when parking and they really can't enjoy 'stop-starting' in traffic.

It's 12 years now since I last owned a manual car although I have still driven them occasionally but it was only this week that I really got to thinking how, for 90% of people, it just doesn't make sense.

It got me wondering as to why UK car owners have never cottoned on to automatics for regular use.

Thoughts Question



How many reasons do you need:

If its for the Road and not the track where every Tenth counts.......

You are in much more control.
1, If you are a true petrolhead and you had a "genuine" choice it would be a manual.
2, I passed a manual test for a reason, and have been around manual cars Man and Boy.
3, An Auto is an auto no matter what the name is.
4, A manual car is far more involving
5, Its much more fun to drive
6, they are worth more.
7, its a dying gearbox as the world gets lazier !!
8, Auto owners do you really think you are in full control?

Auto's used to be for old people, and people that struggle with passing a manual test or just want a car for A to B, or get stuck on the M25. I'm fine with any of these.

It might be harder to explain why the hell you would want an Auto when a manual is avaliable ??
 
  
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Ursa911
Hockenheim


Joined: 17 Feb 2016
Posts: 746
Location: Farningham, Kent


PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Boba fett wrote:
It might be harder to explain why the hell you would want an Auto when a manual is avaliable ??


Agree

Around 12 or so years ago my now ex-wife and I used to live in Florida and both cars we owned were automatic. The beach car we bought was a Geo Tracker which was basically a gutless Suzuki Vitara and the second being 2002 5.7l Dodge Ram truck which was a beast. What I quickly found was driving automatics make people lazy. Travelling back to the UK every 6 weeks or so and driving my manual car became somewhat of a chore although I did miss the option to change gear when it felt right rather than at the mercy of the auto box.

I've driven holiday rentals since those days which were automatic and swore I would never own an auto again. With that said I occasionally miss the auto box when I drive into the city for weekend work, I mostly start at 7am when the streets are clear but leaving Sunday afternoon and hitting Shoreditch at 2pm isn't much fun in a manual but then when I clear the Blackwall Tunnel and open it up those auto dreams just disappear.

I guess it's what you get used to. For me i like the enjoyment from dropping it down a gear.
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alex yates
Shanghai
Shanghai


Joined: 06 Mar 2014
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Location: 4,000 holes in Blackburn, Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Driving a manual is like having sex - loads of unnecassary moving about of body parts and wasting calories just to get the desired outcome.....driving an auto is like sex without the above involved........commonly known as sleep.
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997 Coast
Nürburgring


Joined: 04 Apr 2015
Posts: 491



PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A vote for Alex


No matter how swift a dual clutch box is, it removes the very set up of driving into corners. Just a feeling of pleasure

Bandit
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GT4
Nordschleife
Nordschleife


Joined: 08 Nov 2008
Posts: 30196
Location: Hertfordshire and Hampshire


PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Next time, best to just get the bus Dont know
 
  
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spiderlane
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 07 Feb 2015
Posts: 337
Location: The South East


PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 4:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Why do people still persist with manual cars? Reply with quote

T8 wrote:
Thoughts Question


Yes. Make sure you have both on the fleet. Preferably a Caterham 7 for the manual for when you really want to feel like you're driving Cool

Cheers
Mark
 
  
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T8
General
General


Joined: 29 Jun 2010
Posts: 12955
Location: Kent


PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 5:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Why do people still persist with manual cars? Reply with quote

T8 wrote:


It's 12 years now since I last owned a manual car although I have still driven them occasionally but it was only this week that I really got to thinking how, for 90% of people, it just doesn't make sense.

It got me wondering as to why UK car owners have never cottoned on to automatics for regular use.

Thoughts Question



I guess I should have realised that on this forum I'd only be 'speaking' with the 'other 10%' Grin

For the record I can't put my finger on the actual day that I realised I was converted to 'autos' but I do recall the days when I felt as anti them as many (most?) on 911uk do.

I just honestly can't think of many times in the last few years when I'd have rather been driving a manual car but I do know it's dozens oftimes that I've said to myself "why would anyone want a clutch and gearstick for this journey". Old
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ex 2004 Polar Silver 996T Tiptronic
ex 2002 Seal Grey 996.2 C4 Tiptronic
ex 1978 Silver 924 Manual
 
  
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spiderlane
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 07 Feb 2015
Posts: 337
Location: The South East


PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For clarity I'm totally converted to PDK style boxes for modern performance cars (and slush boxes are fine for family hacks) but sometimes you just need to get fully involved and for that you need a car which was designed in the 50's Smile

I also like (and buy) vinyl records but listen to most of my music digitally. Same sort of thing - for me. (q.v. mechanical watches)

Cheers
Mark
 
  
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MJA911
Magny-Cours


Joined: 10 Dec 2013
Posts: 2502
Location: Berkshire

2006 Porsche 997 GT3

PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^^^^ what he said Thumb
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Boba fett
Kyalami


Joined: 14 May 2015
Posts: 1886



PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 5:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Why do people still persist with manual cars? Reply with quote

T8 wrote:
T8 wrote:


It's 12 years now since I last owned a manual car although I have still driven them occasionally but it was only this week that I really got to thinking how, for 90% of people, it just doesn't make sense.

It got me wondering as to why UK car owners have never cottoned on to automatics for regular use.

Thoughts Question



I guess I should have realised that on this forum I'd only be 'speaking' with the 'other 10%' Grin

For the record I can't put my finger on the actual day that I realised I was converted to 'autos' but I do recall the days when I felt as anti them as many (most?) on 911uk do.

I just honestly can't think of many times in the last few years when I'd have rather been driving a manual car but I do know it's dozens oftimes that I've said to myself "why would anyone want a clutch and gearstick for this journey". Old


T8, with that post, and putting your finger on it - I would say when you got your bus pass ?
 
  
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MNC911
Österreich


Joined: 10 Feb 2016
Posts: 972
Location: Prestbury


PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Because automatics are on the whole annoying.
No clutch control
You guess gears
They don't react then lurch
They don't know you want 2nd when braking hard
They don't know how want 2nd to pull out of a bend or up a hill
They don't know you're about to overtake Joe Slow in front and give immediate power
They question that you now want to drive forward after reversing
They add hours trying to do a 5 or 7 point turn like they are on go slow and how dare the driver ask for more than maneuver.
You can't push start them to get to a garage

The only time you'd want an automatic is heavy traffic or a very long day in the office
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spiderlane
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 07 Feb 2015
Posts: 337
Location: The South East


PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My PDK box (2011 997) seems to always know the right gear to be in. Slight press of the pedal and it'll drop a ratio or 2, kick all the way down and it'll pick the lowest gear to give it the full beans.

Braking hard, it picks the right gear for me to be in to accelerate out of the corner almost every time. In fact the more I get to know it, the more I think that's very impressive.

Well behaved on hill starts.

Had a 2016 Cayman S on loan yesterday and the PDK in that is even better.

However it's awful with reverse when cold! Nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing.... oh god I'm heading towards the garage backwards at 30!!!!
 
  
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Boba fett
Kyalami


Joined: 14 May 2015
Posts: 1886



PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

spiderlane wrote:
My PDK box (2011 997) seems to always know the right gear to be in. Slight press of the pedal and it'll drop a ratio or 2, kick all the way down and it'll pick the lowest gear to give it the full beans.

Braking hard, it picks the right gear for me to be in to accelerate out of the corner almost every time. In fact the more I get to know it, the more I think that's very impressive.

Well behaved on hill starts.

Had a 2016 Cayman S on loan yesterday and the PDK in that is even better.

However it's awful with reverse when cold! Nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing.... oh god I'm heading towards the garage backwards at 30!!!!


All Autos in performance cars are rubbish, they are just good at making a bad driver good or quick Smile
 
  
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spiderlane
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 07 Feb 2015
Posts: 337
Location: The South East


PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MNC911 wrote:

You can't push start them to get to a garage


Yes, good point. Although I'd read you're not supposed to bump start cars with catalytic converters (unburnt fuel I suppose) Still done it many times though.
 
  
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spiderlane
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 07 Feb 2015
Posts: 337
Location: The South East


PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Boba feet wrote:
they are just good at making a bad driver good or quick Smile


Mine's definitely broken then! Smile

Edit - Context is important though - I love the feeling of a well connected, heel and toed down change into a bend, but those are miles I drive for pleasure. Autos all the way for drudge work.
 
  
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pothole
Monza


Joined: 04 Oct 2011
Posts: 168
Location: Location Location


PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you can understand why you might want to drive at all rather than entirely give up on driving and ride in an autonomous car, you can understand why someone would want a manual box.

You just have difference preferences for which parts of the driving process you'd prefer to be automated.

Personally, if I couldn't have a manual box, I'd find something else to waste my time on that cars. Auto boxes completely kill a driver's car for me.
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Whytar
Hockenheim


Joined: 03 Jan 2015
Posts: 661
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why cook dinner when you can order take out?

Well, there is a sense of immense satisfaction that one gets when ingredients are sourced, washed, prepped, chopped, saute'd and brought together to deliver a taste sensation.

Yes, you can get someone else to do it, but when you do it yourself it's just better.
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