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T8
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Joined: 29 Jun 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 7:56 am    Post subject: Is a 991 £37k better than a Cayman? Reply with quote

I had an excellent day at the Silverstone Porsche Experience Centre yesterday driving a 991.2S. In addition to getting some invaluable driver training nearly 2 hours in the driving seat gave me a great chance to thoroughly assess what I had thought would be my next 911 and the 150 mile drive each way in my current car proved to be a useful back-to-back comparison session.

I chose to forego the 0-60 and back to 0 opportunity that many experienced and spent extra time on the superb handling circuit, kick-plate and ice-hill. The opportunity to find how what happens to a 911 on black ice - with and without the different levels of PSM - was incredible and this bit, more than any other, I'd seriously recommend to anyone planning to drive their car all year round.

On the short test track where maximum speeds attainable are only c80 mph the car itself didn't feel any different to the 991.1S I'd driven previously. The power delivery was so linear that I certainly wouldn't have realised I was driving a Turbo and the interior was so similar to every 981/991 I'd driven before that I could have been driving any of them.

I've always been a great fan of the 981 Cayman and in all honesty can't see why anyone looking primarily for a Porsche badge would spend an extra £37K for 2 child sized seats if they didn't need them.

Whilst typing this I've just realised that it's the above fact that will be my over-riding thought from the day! All notions I had of spending £55k on my next 'previously owned' Porsche will be seriously reconsidered in light of the fact that I could get a considerably newer and better spec'd Cayman for that same money. The whole 'great car but it isn't a 911' argument is getting thinner every day.

In fact, that realisation dawning has thrown me to such an extent that I'm going to stop now, change the thread title and leave this as 'food for thought'.
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nigel99
Suzuka


Joined: 16 Jul 2015
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2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 2S

PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The gap is closing. I saw a Cayman GT4 close up on the weekend and would seriously consider one of those at some point. It looked so mean but I was surprised that's it still less BHP than the stock 911S, albeit not by much.

Caymans are fantastic cars, I had one for 4 years but the 911 is 10 times better. Perhaps a very high spec Cayman S would match a mid spec 911 non S. There's a reason why the 911 is more expensive, everything is a little bit better.
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spiderlane
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Joined: 07 Feb 2015
Posts: 369
Location: The South East


PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 8:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Intersting comparison, thanks Terry.

I wanted a 911 (because I wanted to have had one at least once in my life) and I wanted the child seats (which I use every week) so my car was a good fit for what I want right now.

However without those 2 constraints and looking for a pure sports car I would be seriously gravitating towards a top end Cayman.

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cheshire911
Estoril


Joined: 10 Jun 2012
Posts: 3738



PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Emotion plays a disproportionate role in buying decisions.
Logic tends to be over-ridden by emotion.

Everything stated fits the logic side of the decision. But the emotional pull can be significant before and after the purchase.
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HSC911
Zolder


Joined: 23 Jul 2014
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My cousin worked at Porsche as a salesman for a couple of years.

When the new Boxster came out he got one for the weekend because it was his birthday.

He said if it was his money, he would take the Boxster over a 911 any day and save the extra cash.

But as Cheshire says, however thin the argument, it's not a 911.
 
  
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cheshire911
Estoril


Joined: 10 Jun 2012
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Absolutely! You got it in one. When you go for a drive with a load of other Porsche drivers and you're all there in the car park, you look at the iconic 911 and look at yours and those thoughts flash past you:
"yes its great car and I don't need two extra seats for £37k, BUT its not a 911!" Damn....
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Graemep
Nürburgring


Joined: 25 Mar 2013
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 10:19 am    Post subject: Re: Is a 991 £37k better than a Cayman? Reply with quote

T8 wrote:
I chose to forego the 0-60 and back to 0 opportunity that many experienced and spent extra time on the superb handling circuit, kick-plate and ice-hill. The opportunity to find how what happens to a 911 on black ice - with and without the different levels of PSM - was incredible and this bit, more than any other, I'd seriously recommend to anyone planning to drive their car all year round.


The fact I had done a wet grip session at Rockingham, kick-plate included, is what probably saved me when I hit fresh snow on the M6 at around 80ish..and somehow caught it.. Surprised

I've had similar thoughts after spending time with various courtesy cars, including Boxsters and a 911C2. Both great cars, I actually ended up thinking do I need a Turbo over the C2, rather than a Boxster/Cayman over the 911, although I still have the need for the extra seats.

While I found the Boxster great fun to drive quickly and very chuckable, the 911 was just more fun down one of my favourite roads as I could push it more than the Turbo..

I'd stick with a 911 of some description, but also have one of the other - if I could afford it of course.. Laughing
 
  
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scoot
Monza


Joined: 09 Mar 2015
Posts: 171
Location: Berkshire


PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great insights Terry Thumb and thanks for sharing your experiences on the Porsche Experience trip. Can I ask which version of the experience you picked as seriously looking at booking a session as I need to know more about my cars handling, in a safe place?

As had been said emotions can crowd ones judgement, I did consider a cayman, however for a daily driver and for road trips I thought the 911 was more practical. Now that's a statement you don't often hear in the same sentence as 911. Very Happy
I decided not to drive a cayman and focus on 911 as I really needed two seats for the munchins. If I got a cayman I would need a second car and that then means difference in costs would not be that great.
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DRZ911
Barcelona


Joined: 13 Mar 2013
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have been on a number of events at Silverstone and when the PEC bring their whole fleet of cars/drivers over to Northern Ireland for 3 or 4 days of madness on a local race track. Cool

Got to say, that on the smaller circuits of about a mile in length, there is very little noticeable difference between the Cayman and a 911. Only time a difference is really seen is when the 911 stretches its legs down a long straight. And on real roads, this is also probably the only discernible difference when the 911 will go by the Cayman on autobahns/motorways or on longer track circuits.

So, because of the confines of normal UK roads, would say that the two cars will be close together for 99% of the time. So is an extra 1% worth £37K Question
Probably, in my mind at least, due to the 911 heritage, and maybe more so now that the Boxster/Cayman will move to 4-cylinder engines.
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Rockunrolla
Albert Park


Joined: 27 Dec 2011
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've got two children so I've no choice ,,

(Tounge in cheek ) -
But even if I didn't I'd still go 911 as would feel like a failure at the traffic lights if one pulled up at the side of me and I was in a Cayman Grin

But I've heard as a car been better eg on track the Cayman could be better !

Edit- a review I watch by a racing driver said if Porsche put the 991S engine in the Cayman it would be the best car in the world Bandit
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GT4
Nordschleife
Nordschleife


Joined: 08 Nov 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You mean a GT4?
 
  
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Whytar
Hockenheim


Joined: 03 Jan 2015
Posts: 661
Location: Sydney Downunder


PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah
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mzmini
Barcelona


Joined: 30 Jan 2015
Posts: 1441
Location: Somerset


PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cayman the first Porsche I drove fantastic car BUT a very thin its not a 911 Dont know
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Phil 997
Brands Hatch
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Joined: 05 Dec 2015
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Location: Bournemouth,Dorset

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mzmini wrote:
Cayman the first Porsche I drove fantastic car BUT a very thin its not a 911 Dont know


I have seen 2 GT4s this week both sounded stunning as they went past me, the exhaust note is spot on. I have kids so need the plus 2 Whether the cayman will become the Porsche of choice in the future as the new 991.2 is not as loved as previous 911s .I think the huge change to 3ltr twin turbo has put many off it and time will tell if it becomes considered not a true 911.
Having said that the air coolers didn't stop us buying 996 and 997s.
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Senoj
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Joined: 23 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Terry, my advice is buy a Cayman/Boxster.

If one has done the 911 thing then the box is ticked and you get the emotion out of the way letting common sense prevail. Money no object is a different discussion.

If you are new to Porsche then absolutely, 1000%, you must get to the top of the Porsche icon mountain before you can back into a Cayman/ Boxster and be totally comfy with it.

I hope that doesn't come accross as some patronising bollox but what i mean is if you haven't got there you need to get there, once you have got there you can go anywhere 😀
 
  
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FZP
Indianapolis


Joined: 18 Jan 2015
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is a Cayman 30k better than an MX5? It's a subjective question that pertains to your own value system. The same argument can be said of watches. What can a £250k watch do that a £500 watch can't.
If it makes you feel good and won't affect your standard of living, do as you please in my book. It's about you and not what people think of your choice. What other people think of you is none of your business...my 2 cents.
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Chris_in_the_UK
Paul Ricard


Joined: 19 Mar 2014
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WTF has an MX5 got to do with this thread - really? Dont know
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isysman
Zolder


Joined: 22 Apr 2011
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been saying along these lines for years. Coming from Bxsters albeit a 986 and 987 my first 911 experience in my old 3.8S cab wasn't great. I never gelled with the car and sold it after about nine months to get my turbo. And I have another 987 now as my daily.

If I didn't have the turbo I would have bought a new Boxster, no doubt about it. In fact I might still buy a new Boxster, waiting to drive one first.

Anyone thinking of buying a Porsche should think of them as equals as I think they are for the most part.
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coullstar
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was in a similar position albeit with 2nd hand. If I didn't want to take the kids out I dare say I would have a newer Cayman in the garage however as it was my first Porsche I also felt the same as above so 911 it had to be. Heart ruled head.
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madalaa
Fuji


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 6:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great write up Terry and I really must splash out on a Porsche driving experience at some stage ........ but which Cayman would opt for? ....... there are Caymans ....... then there Caymans.

Anything less than the R I don't think I would really want ........ yet I think the GT4 might be a bit too far for me ....... so I reckon for me it would be the GTS.
 
  
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