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Chris_in_the_UK
Estoril


Joined: 19 Mar 2014
Posts: 3579
Location: Harrogate


PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 7:56 pm    Post subject: Suspension geometry and setup - DIY? Reply with quote

Ok folks, time for some discussion and an opportunity for some DIY.

Traditionally we (mostly) all know that to get the geometry set on our cars requires lasers, gauges, smoke/mirrors and throwing money at somebody - right?

Well, that is one way of doing it and it works for most and were are some great outfits around who will do the business to a high standard. Following my suspension refurb I decided to see if (realistically) this could be done by a competent DIY person (me).

So after a few weeks of research and speaking to people it is clear that it is possible and the level of accuracy is significant (some have suggested F1 standards of accuracy).

So, this weekend is the time to put my ramblings into practice - I will (of course) post pictures and some narrative of the process.......
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deMort
Long Beach


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Im looking forward to this .. never too old to learn something new Smile
 
  
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Chris_in_the_UK
Estoril


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A starter for 10.....

https://www.robrobinette.com/DIYAlignmentCalculator.htm
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chaser
Suzuka


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2005 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I used to line my little race car up with axle stands and string Smile
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ChrisT70
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Joined: 26 Mar 2015
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did my Lola T70 with a friend using a site laser leveller, thin shim pads and blocks, string, a long straight edge and pen and paper Smile
It did take us a full weekend and a lot of trial and error but diy is doable if you have time and patience. It might not be perfect or as easy as using modern alignment tackle but the principles are the same.
If you are doing it right you should corner weight with a driver weight on board etc but that's another story lol
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deMort
Long Beach


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 6747
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can see toe and thrust , and i like the Lazer replacement .. camber and castor ? castor as it cant be adjusted on the sport cars ok but camber ?

Im used to adjusting camber first then toe as one upsets the other.

Your going to use string on a jig ? wood frame i guess parallel to each other and measure distance to tyres at the point to get your measurements .. i cant actually fault it so far as you have made a home made tracking gauge setup thats a dam site cheaper than the ones ive seen !

Pretty impressive , but from the short time i have been here something i would expect from you Smile

The web site is pretty good though is it yours ? as its not obvious from the front page that this is hidden in its depths



Edit
Got to admit ive not herd of this before .. im impressed as i thought only garages with the equipment could do this.
 
  
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Chris_in_the_UK
Estoril


Joined: 19 Mar 2014
Posts: 3579
Location: Harrogate


PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Basic kit.....

4 x axle stands

2 x 2m brand new aluminium scaffold poles.

Elastic straps

Steel ruler

Spirit level

Digital angle gauge

Sharpie, parachute cord, alloy box section.

Wooden blocks

Cut up old number plates

Patience and determination!
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deMort
Long Beach


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 6747
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I need pictures and details man , dont post just get on with it lol ..

Btw im going to be printing this all out and takeing to work when finished .. no pressure Wink
 
  
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Chris_in_the_UK
Estoril


Joined: 19 Mar 2014
Posts: 3579
Location: Harrogate


PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Demort wrote:
I need pictures and details man , dont post just get on with it lol ..

Btw im going to be printing this all out and takeing to work when finished .. no pressure Wink


Of course thumbsup

I will give some detailed narrative with pictures and why I did what I did.

No pressure....... Floor
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MisterCorn
Dijon


Joined: 08 Jan 2011
Posts: 7064
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2004 Porsche 996 Turbo

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I remember doing this with my Dad, using a pair of 8ft flourescent tubes and a tape measure. Got the job done.

MC
 
  
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kas750
Reims


Joined: 31 Mar 2013
Posts: 4473
Location: Chorley lancashire

2006 Porsche 911

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well done for doing this Chris and I look forward to the details.
 
  
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Chris_in_the_UK
Estoril


Joined: 19 Mar 2014
Posts: 3579
Location: Harrogate


PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kas750 wrote:
Well done for doing this Chris and I look forward to the details.


thumbsup
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deMort
Long Beach


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just a thought .. if you had a vertical pole with a level on top to make sure its perfectly 90 degrees to the ground , you could place it against the tyre and measure the distance between say the top of the tyre ( middle of the sidewall ) to the bar , you would have say 3mm difference gap when pole is touching the base of the tyre ..
That would give you a negative camber of 0.17

a gap at the bottom would give you a positive camber

Theres conversion charts that will change mill to degrees .. would that not give you a pretty acurate camber reading ?

You could use the same pole to give you a castor reading if aligned with the centre of the top strut.

just a thought .. and its been a long day Smile
 
  
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Chris_in_the_UK
Estoril


Joined: 19 Mar 2014
Posts: 3579
Location: Harrogate


PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Demort wrote:
Just a thought .. if you had a vertical pole with a level on top to make sure its perfectly 90 degrees to the ground , you could place it against the tyre and measure the distance between say the top of the tyre ( middle of the sidewall ) to the bar , you would have say 3mm difference gap when pole is touching the base of the tyre ..
That would give you a negative camber of 0.17

a gap at the bottom would give you a positive camber

Theres conversion charts that will change mill to degrees .. would that not give you a pretty acurate camber reading ?

just a thought .. and its been a long day Smile


It would.

There are digital angle gauges with built in spirit levels around for not much money as well (which I have just bought!).

The PITA is that at the rear the relationship between camber and toe is pretty significant and adjusting one changes the other - more on this later!.
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deMort
Long Beach


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree , but is not the purpose to spend as little money on equipment as possible Very Happy

Enough now .. too tired , ill catch up tomorrow .. loveing it so far though.

Last edited by deMort on Thu Mar 24, 2016 9:26 pm; edited 1 time in total
 
  
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Chris_in_the_UK
Estoril


Joined: 19 Mar 2014
Posts: 3579
Location: Harrogate


PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Demort wrote:
I agree , but is not the purpose to spend as little money on equipment as possible Very Happy


I was - and it still is!.

Current expenditure over what I already had:-

Alloy scaffold poles - £30

Digital angle Gauge - £20

Parachute cord - £5

Mr. Green
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poppopbangbang
Nürburgring


Joined: 25 May 2015
Posts: 480



PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How we used to do it:



All that fancy billet is essentially recreating axle stands and string.

We've back to backed a mobile hunter against our string and poles ability and the hunter read exactly the same as our setup sheet. This is very much one of those things that gets quicker with experience - if this is the first time you've done it expect it to be a long job! Smile
 
  
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Chris_in_the_UK
Estoril


Joined: 19 Mar 2014
Posts: 3579
Location: Harrogate


PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok folks - long day need!.

Spent a good while setting this up as I do not have the F1 bespoke stuff!.



Basically this is one corner of the 4 on the car. What you are looking at is an axle stand at each corner equip distant and the height set to as near as dammit to the centreline of the wheels. The car is on 4 blocks of wood to make access underneath a bit easier whilst allowing the car to loaded with it's weight on the suspension.

Across the front and back are 2 metre long alloy scaffold poles, again set perpendicular to the car and equidistant down the centreline - secured by a bungee cord at each corner. Importantly, the scaffold poles are exactly the same length (more on this later).

I'll post a close up shortly, but the tyres are sat on two pieces of numberplate placed one of top of the other - these are slightly larger than the contact patch but importantly allow the tyres to slip easily as the suspension/toe is adjusted.

The parachute cord is set exactly 50mm from the end of each pole and, importantly checked to be exactly parallel to each other.
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deMort
Long Beach


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If your going to crawl underneath to adjust the setup then you be Bloody carefull mate .. id like to see some kind of wheel chock to stop the car from possibly moveing .... with number plates under the tyres it will easily move side to side.

Dont want to be seen as nagging but ive seen far too many accidents in my time to not say anything .. forgive me Embarassed
 
  
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Chris_in_the_UK
Estoril


Joined: 19 Mar 2014
Posts: 3579
Location: Harrogate


PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2016 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Demort wrote:
If your going to crawl underneath to adjust the setup then you be Bloody carefull mate .. id like to see some kind of wheel chock to stop the car from possibly moveing .... with number plates under the tyres it will easily move side to side.

Dont want to be seen as nagging but ive seen far too many accidents in my time to not say anything .. forgive me Embarassed


Not nagging - been there done that many years ago - all bolts loosened off before number plates went under - I replaced the lower arms/springs/shocks and CV boots a few weeks earlier so all suspension related fastenings were off, cleaned/replaced and coppaslipped before reassembly.

The rear end has wheel chocks both sides of the wheels thumbsup

Been a long day getting everything set up so the picture is missing a few stuff as it's only one corner.

More to follow......
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