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Palladium
Watkins Glen


Joined: 01 Nov 2015
Posts: 2102



PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2016 8:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the car looks nice, and I wish you well with the sale.
 
  
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Outlander
Trainee


Joined: 21 Mar 2016
Posts: 97



PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2016 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cableguy wrote:
It's been mentioned on a couple of occasions now with no answer... Are you going to divulge your info on the sills, are they steel, fibreglass or GRP and how were they blended/bonded on to a NB Car? Wink

C.


Hi, quite happy to share the process if there is genuine interest. Slightly apprehensive given some of the negativity thus far, but will give an overview.

I did it in such a way so that the actual car is hardly touched. The majority of the work is to the skirts themselves. Obviously, the WB flares out at the rear, hence the sills do not typically fit. I think I am right in saying that you are left with a circa 10mm protrudence where the sill meets the rear quarter. making this difference up in filler would obviously be horrendous and the finished effect would not look good.

The way that these sills have been fabricated and fitted requires only a very minimal blend between the skirts and the rear quarter. I think I am right in saying that this is the case with genuine WBs as well, although I stand to be corrected. The sills themselves are bonded on and Everything else is very straight forward and he under sills are direct fit to existing mountings. As mentioned before, I am not so heavy handed as to ever cut the metal of the car or per neatly alter the structure. The sills could be removed at any time. The lower quarter and original sills would then just need rubbed down and repainted. The original under sills would just be screwed back on.
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cableguy
Suzuka


Joined: 10 Sep 2007
Posts: 1166
Location: North Yorkshire


PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2016 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the info on the procedure. The reason I asked is that I've never actually read or seen another NB car with WB Sills.
Hat off to you for probably a 993 first. Wink

C.
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Outlander
Trainee


Joined: 21 Mar 2016
Posts: 97



PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2016 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks. Yes, I think it the first. Certainly the first I know of anyway and I did a lot of looking about on the Internet. Couldn't find them anywhere, so had to make them myself, to paraphrase someone else!
Maybe people will come round to the idea. RS sills are popular enough now.
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dommorton
Zolder


Joined: 16 Mar 2008
Posts: 5031


1998 Porsche 993 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2016 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting. So they are the steel panels from a wide bodied car placed on top of the NB so as to retain the structural integrity.
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Outlander
Trainee


Joined: 21 Mar 2016
Posts: 97



PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2016 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The original car is indeed completely unaltered. You couldn't necessarily put it back to standard in your garage in afternoon, but a body shop could do it no problem. Not really a much bigger job, than the respray for stone chips etc to sills and quarters.

If there is enough interest, I could start another thread showing the car at the various stages, which gives an idea of the process. As I said, the bulk of the work and skill is in altering the new sills to fit the existing car.

I just need to figure out how to resize photos and upload them on here.
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tim993
Shanghai


Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Posts: 4953
Location: Hampshire


PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2016 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dommorton wrote:
Interesting. So they are the steel panels from a wide bodied car placed on top of the NB so as to retain the structural integrity.


I thought the outer sill panel was just a screw on / clip on cover made of plastic. I'm 100% sure of this for the RS as Jackal posted some pics on here a couple of years ago. I think they were black plastic.

I just assumed the outer sill for the narrow and turbo body cars was also plastic as per the RS.

I'll go check mine with a magnet later!
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ChrisT70
Barcelona


Joined: 26 Mar 2015
Posts: 1411
Location: The Sea


PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2016 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

it is a clip/screw on plastic panel that is different shape to the nb. i have a nb one spare bought in error lol!
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stuttgartmetal
Indianapolis


Joined: 23 Feb 2009
Posts: 2322
Location: Caterham. Surrey


PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2016 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tim993 wrote:
dommorton wrote:
Interesting. So they are the steel panels from a wide bodied car placed on top of the NB so as to retain the structural integrity.


I thought the outer sill panel was just a screw on / clip on cover made of plastic. I'm 100% sure of this for the RS as Jackal posted some pics on here a couple of years ago. I think they were black plastic.

I just assumed the outer sill for the narrow and turbo body cars was also plastic as per the RS.

I'll go check mine with a magnet later!


This is where you find the magnet doesnt stick to both the rear quarters, and the roof of your car.
 
  
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dommorton
Zolder


Joined: 16 Mar 2008
Posts: 5031


1998 Porsche 993 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2016 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tim993 wrote:
dommorton wrote:
Interesting. So they are the steel panels from a wide bodied car placed on top of the NB so as to retain the structural integrity.


I thought the outer sill panel was just a screw on / clip on cover made of plastic. I'm 100% sure of this for the RS as Jackal posted some pics on here a couple of years ago. I think they were black plastic.

I just assumed the outer sill for the narrow and turbo body cars was also plastic as per the RS.

I'll go check mine with a magnet later!


The painted part of the sill which gives the flared appearance to a WB car is absolutely definitely a different profile steel sill panel and is integral to the body of the car. There's no nb style sill lurking beneath on a factory WB car.

The black plastic lower section is indeed clip on.
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highway
Albert Park


Joined: 08 Nov 2007
Posts: 1659



PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 7:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I note this comment female Matty earlier in this thread;" I can stomach a tip but it's ironic that tips, whilst hugely popular during 993 production, now get a bit of a ribbing from the enthusiasts"

Watch history repeat itself with manual gearboxes on 997 and 991...
 
  
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Tobesetc
Suzuka


Joined: 02 Jun 2014
Posts: 1221
Location: West London, UK


PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

highway wrote:
I note this comment female Matty earlier in this thread;" I can stomach a tip but it's ironic that tips, whilst hugely popular during 993 production, now get a bit of a ribbing from the enthusiasts"

Watch history repeat itself with manual gearboxes on 997 and 991...


Do you reckon as the 997/991 age, people will start to prefer the manual over the PDK? Interesting thought... though there's a big difference - PDK is quicker than the manual, whereas the Tip was always (much) slower. If the PDK is more common, the rarity of manual might come into play. "Classic" drivers of our generation are set in our manual ways (on average, demand shows). But the Playststion Generation when they get to "our" age...won't they think PDK is the "drivers" choice? Good question!

Is it a bit like me being brought up where a car with airbags was one of the big things, and I couldn't bring myself to buy a car with a steering wheel that didn't include one? (Nor could I install an RS wheel without a bag, for the same reason). Talk about gone off on a tangent - SORRY all!
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Robertb
Long Beach


Joined: 01 Sep 2003
Posts: 6001
Location: South Oxfordshire

2002 Porsche 996 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tobesetc wrote:
highway wrote:
I note this comment female Matty earlier in this thread;" I can stomach a tip but it's ironic that tips, whilst hugely popular during 993 production, now get a bit of a ribbing from the enthusiasts"

Watch history repeat itself with manual gearboxes on 997 and 991...


Do you reckon as the 997/991 age, people will start to prefer the manual over the PDK? Interesting thought... though there's a big difference - PDK is quicker than the manual, whereas the Tip was always (much) slower. If the PDK is more common, the rarity of manual might come into play. "Classic" drivers of our generation are set in our manual ways (on average, demand shows). But the Playststion Generation when they get to "our" age...won't they think PDK is the "drivers" choice? Good question!

Is it a bit like me being brought up where a car with airbags was one of the big things, and I couldn't bring myself to buy a car with a steering wheel that didn't include one? (Nor could I install an RS wheel without a bag, for the same reason). Talk about gone off on a tangent - SORRY all!


My concern with PDK is that when it breaks in the future, it will be megabucks to put right. Same with the DFI in the Gen 2 cars.

I would argue that point to point from a standing start, a tip will be quicker for most non race-trained drivers.

For me the appeal of a manual is more about involvement, and the satisfaction of getting a gear change just so. Given that I am not a racing driver paid by results, I'd happily sacrifice a few seconds over PDK on my run round the block on a sunday for the extra fun of a manual.
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Tobesetc
Suzuka


Joined: 02 Jun 2014
Posts: 1221
Location: West London, UK


PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I fully agree about "involvement" of manual v any auto box. I'm 100% in the manual camp. Just playing devils advocate... kids today...will they feel the same?

[Can't see a 993 Tip ever being faster than a manual, no matter how you stack the statement to suit the auto box. Don't think Tips were about speed then, rather convenience (ie "lazy" US market)]
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HPNer
Hockenheim


Joined: 25 Jun 2014
Posts: 680
Location: Cardiff


PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rather foolishly, I part ex'd an SC for one of the first 928's. A manual obviously. It was, if a I recall, a ZF box with a dog leg first (fine for LHD but not so fine for RHD), the box was horrid and hard work. Subsequently, most 928's were bought with an auto box. Nobody wanted the manual on a 928 then or now if they've got any sense.
I had a 997.2 with a PDK and whilst it was an excellent bit of kit, I did miss the lack of personal input into proceedings. I haven't tried the manual version, but I would be surprised if the manual ever commands a premium over the PDK, especially if its not a particularly slick box.
In this age of equality, girls prefer the PDK! Grin
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highway
Albert Park


Joined: 08 Nov 2007
Posts: 1659



PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The manual sold is vastly fewer numbers than pdk. Rightly or not manual is perceived as the manly choice-clue being in the name. PDK was considered whiz bang on launch but the newer pdk as fitted to 991 is already considered superior to that in 997. Lack of supply alone will see a premium for manual in the future.

The early pdks stand to be perceived like Windows XP is now. Good for its time but ultimate outdated and unloved. Those with longer beards will recall tiptronic being touted as the ultimate in tech upon launch. Apparently the box "learnt your driving style". Many other impressive sound bites were coined and repeated.

It's not desirable now though. Pdk will go the same way-impressive though it is. I've used the 7 speed box on a 991. I didn't think it particularly poor at all. Just took getting used to.

Fact is (imho) NO 911 has a particularly good gear change feel. The change on an early MX5 or current Mini Cooper frankly pisses the change quality on any Porsche I've ever driven.
 
  
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highway
Albert Park


Joined: 08 Nov 2007
Posts: 1659



PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The manual sold is vastly fewer numbers than pdk. Rightly or not manual is perceived as the manly choice-clue being in the name. PDK was considered whiz bang on launch but the newer pdk as fitted to 991 is already considered superior to that in 997. Lack of supply alone will see a premium for manual in the future.

The early pdks stand to be perceived like Windows XP is now. Good for its time but ultimate outdated and unloved. Those with longer beards will recall tiptronic being touted as the ultimate in tech upon launch. Apparently the box "learnt your driving style". Many other impressive sound bites were coined and repeated.

It's not desirable now though. Pdk will go the same way-impressive though it is. I've used the 7 speed box on a 991. I didn't think it particularly poor at all. Just took getting used to.

Fact is (imho) NO 911 has a particularly good gear change feel. The change on an early MX5 or current Mini Cooper frankly pisses the change quality on any Porsche I've ever driven.
 
  
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stuttgartmetal
Indianapolis


Joined: 23 Feb 2009
Posts: 2322
Location: Caterham. Surrey


PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 915 gearbox had a lot more feel to either 6speeds Ive had in 993's.
The best box by far, for me, was the five speed I had in a C2 964.

AIUI, the new GT3 is to be manual.
 
  
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Outlander
Trainee


Joined: 21 Mar 2016
Posts: 97



PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not sure if anyone is still interested in this, but the results of the eBay auction are in. Final bid was £27300 (reserve not met), which I guess was not far removed from figures being discussed on here. I have an offer from elsewhere of £29k, but I'm not sure how serious the buyer is.

I've adjusted the ads online to £35k. I'm really looking for £32k or thereabouts. Will just see what happens. eBay auctions are never great. I routinely have cars fail to sell on there, then go for their proper money on auto trader shortly after. I really just use the auctions to drum up interest.
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Kimbo
Paul Ricard


Joined: 05 May 2011
Posts: 3407
Location: East Sussex


PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had unsavouries from eBay, Orks from Pistonheads, Indians from Autotrader...but the best of the bad bunch were from Car and Classic (or words to that effect).

£29 for cash seems ok, you may get more if you can bear to put up with the public and waste some weekends.

I Have taken a low price for cars from the Plebs because life is too short to put up with their inane questions, idiotic phone calls, paltry offers and bad breath.

Sod it...have it for that.

Take it away and get off the drive.
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