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ELA
Suzuka


Joined: 30 Aug 2011
Posts: 1042
Location: Nurburgring Doorstep


PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2015 8:06 pm    Post subject: CLR Project Leichtbau: adding lightness to the tune of 200kg Reply with quote

I keep having re-occurring thoughts about making my 98 C2 a little more interesting and focused. Problem is it really is a beautiful car and has all the right bits and pieces (Full Hartech, PSE, M030, OEM trick diff, 997SSK, 10speaker system incl door woofers...) so I don't want to potentially ruin it.

I am probably already on the border having fitted 200cell cats, BMC filter and CAI, RSS engine mounts, under-drive pulley and soon a LWFW!

Question I have is, if I try to retain the creature comforts that make it a semi-practical family car (carpets, rear seats, elec windows...) but remove non-essentials like complete air-con system and sunroof, would the weight-loss justify the removal of these components?
How much weight is there in the AC system (I'm guessing around 20kg), sunroof (probably only 10kg). Hardly noticeable in the grand scheme of things.
What is the potential kg's that can be removed if I really went to town (Hifi, AC, carpets, plastic windows...)?

UPDATE:
Thought it best to update this first post with all the available data I have to date (I will update as I go along):

Each car has different spec so not all will be the same as my car but for info mine is a 1998 C2 manual with Sunroof, PSE, upgraded Hifi 10 speaker, Rear wiper, sports seats and Turbo Look solid 18’s.

Stock parts removed/lightened
Jack -1.3kg
Toolroll -0.8kg
Front Impact bar -3.1kg
Rear impact bar -3.8kg
Space saver wheel -11.3kg
Wiper motor assembly and insulation -2.2kg
2x rear carpets (behind rear seats) -6kg
Insulation behind Interior rear side lower panel 1.8kg per side = 3.6kg
Alpine speakers 0.6kg each x4 = -2.4kg
Door sub 1.8kg each = 3.6kg total
Carpet under rear seat lightened -2.6kg
Door airbag each 1.1kg = -2.2kg
Passenger airbag -3.3kg
Head-unit -1.6kg
6CD changer -1.9kg
Amplifier -1.2
Floor mats -2.6kg
Alarm Siren -0.8kg
Battery Tray -1.2kg
GT3RS Radiator Modification -2.7kg
Brake shields & bolts -0.4kg
PSE wiring loom -0.1kg
Screenwash fluid drained -1kg
Engine tensioner bracket modified -0.4kg
2x doors snubbers -1kg
Engine cover ram delete 0.1kg

Parts replaced (weight reduced by)
CLR Inconel625 Exhaust -20.8kg
Dash delete -1.0kg
CLR Carbon roof (sunroof delete) -18.1kg
CLR AC/PAS conversion kit -21.2kg
Racing battery -10.4kg
Polycarbonate rear window -4.1kg
Polycarbonate rear side windows -1.4kg
LWFW and Stage 2 clutch -5.9kg
CUP steering wheel -1.6kg
Ohlins+CLR top mounts (Front 4.8 each rear 4.3 each) -4.4kg
Carbon/Leather LWB seats -12.3kg each = -24.6kg
CLR Carbon Ducktail -6kg
CLR brake cooling mod: Drag/lift reduction -0.5kg
CLR Power loom modified -0.5kg
CLR Carbon wings -5.4
CLR Carbon bonnet -9kg
Fuchs wheels with CUP2's -22.9kg
Titanium wheels bolts -1.1kg
CLR Carbon doors (5.1kg each) -20.8
CLR Carbon door cards (1.1kg each) -5.2kg
CLR Complete suspension (14 arms) and front droplink redesign -1.7kg
CLR Carbon RUF Mirrors -0.23kg


Total weight removed so far: 248.3kg

FOR INFO ONLY: Other parts which have been weighed
Interior rear side lower panel 1.6kg
Interior rear wiper motor panel/cover 0.5kg
OEM seat each 23.7kg = 47.4kg
OEM Cat 5.3kg each Inc O2 sensor = 10.6kg
Carpet under rear seat 7.4kg
Centre console (around gear lever/handbrake) 2.4kg
Door card each 3.7kg = 7.4kg
Steering wheel airbag 1.2kg
Stock battery 17.4kg
Sunroof assembly 13.4kg (4.9kg sunroof panel, 5.0kg frame, 3.5kg inner cover, brackets etc)
OEM wing mirror each 0.9kg
Rear side windows 1.2kg x2 = 2.4kg
Rear screen 7.7kg
Roof skin 7.5kg
Front wheel + tyre 20.8kg
Rear wheel + tyre 24kg
15mm spacer 0.8Kg
Front strut inc top mount 6kg
Rear strut inc top mount 5.3kg
OEM Coffin arm 1.8kg
Front hub assembly inc wheel bearing 6.3kg
OEM PSE 1xsilencer+tip+bolts/clamps 12.4kg per side
OEM Cat inc O2 sensor 5.3kg per side
Total exhaust (excl manifolds) 35.6kg
CUP2 in 215/45R17 9.1kg
CUP2 in 255/40R17 10.4kg
OEM wing 5kg
OEM bonnet 14kg
_________________
1275kg 997GT3RS with:
Kessels 458bhp 3.8l & vgs-MS ECU
Akrapovic titanium exhaust
Cup 9:35 diff, Airbox, PAS, front lip
BBS 19's
H&R Suspension
Carbon wings/doors/bonnet/door cards

Last edited by ELA on Thu May 11, 2017 8:15 pm; edited 46 times in total
 
  
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Harv
Österreich


Joined: 18 Sep 2014
Posts: 979



PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2015 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I quite like your idea,

Do you have electric seats, perhaps consider changing those to a lightweight race item or some gt3 ones, throw out space saver wheel, jack, air compressor, tool kit

What are your thoughts on the 200cell cats and power pulley? Any rise in water temps? Much of a power increase?


Thumb
 
  
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ELA
Suzuka


Joined: 30 Aug 2011
Posts: 1042
Location: Nurburgring Doorstep


PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2015 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harv wrote:
I quite like your idea,

Do you have electric seats, perhaps consider changing those to a lightweight race item or some gt3 ones, throw out space saver wheel, jack, air compressor, tool kit

What are your thoughts on the 200cell cats and power pulley? Any rise in water temps? Much of a power increase?


Thumb


Ditched all the front compartment nonsense the minute I bought the car Thumb
200cell cats are probably the best mods I have done to date. around 5kg less than stock and they give a noticeable gain and sound great. Here is a little video to give you an idea what they sound like from on-board a following car. My car is the silver one in front.
Pulley is ok but does increase temps. It makes the steering a little heavier which I think is a plus Smile To counteract the temp rise I plan to fit a LTT in the near future.
I've already been looking into seats. Trouble is the carbon buckets are 6.5kg which is great but you lose the use of the back end. The folding buckets are 15kg. Seems quite a difference in weight. I considered one of each but just think it will look a bit daft.


Open Youtube Page

_________________
1275kg 997GT3RS with:
Kessels 458bhp 3.8l & vgs-MS ECU
Akrapovic titanium exhaust
Cup 9:35 diff, Airbox, PAS, front lip
BBS 19's
H&R Suspension
Carbon wings/doors/bonnet/door cards
 
  
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paul987
Suzuka


Joined: 27 Feb 2015
Posts: 1115
Location: east mids


PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2015 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great idea Thumb

I believe the quick way to weight loss whilst keeping the interior family friendly is written in your signature "Carbon wings/doors/bonnet/door cards" or fibre glass for a cheaper option
_________________
2001 996 C4S - Silver
2006 987 Boxster S 3.2 - Guards red
 
  
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adamw
Paul Ricard


Joined: 09 Jul 2009
Posts: 3397
Location: West Sussex

1995 Porsche 993 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2015 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ELA wrote:
Harv wrote:
I quite like your idea,

Do you have electric seats, perhaps consider changing those to a lightweight race item or some gt3 ones, throw out space saver wheel, jack, air compressor, tool kit

What are your thoughts on the 200cell cats and power pulley? Any rise in water temps? Much of a power increase?


Thumb


Ditched all the front compartment nonsense the minute I bought the car Thumb
200cell cats are probably the best mods I have done to date. around 5kg less than stock and they give a noticeable gain and sound great. Here is a little video to give you an idea what they sound like from on-board a following car. My car is the silver one in front.
Pulley is ok but does increase temps. It makes the steering a little heavier which I think is a plus Smile To counteract the temp rise I plan to fit a LTT in the near future.
I've already been looking into seats. Trouble is the carbon buckets are 6.5kg which is great but you lose the use of the back end. The folding buckets are 15kg. Seems quite a difference in weight. I considered one of each but just think it will look a bit daft.


Open Youtube Page


That sounds epic thumbsup
That is all Grin
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EX : 95' 993 C4 Coupe ( Dec 10 - Oct 16 )
EX : 00' 996 C2 Cab ( Jul 09 - Oct 10 )
EX : 03' 986 Boxster S ( May 06 - Dec 08 )
 
  
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kas750
Paul Ricard


Joined: 31 Mar 2013
Posts: 3132
Location: lancashire

2006 Porsche 911

PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2015 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A very interesting project as an early C2 is not much heavier than a GT3.

subscribed. Thumb
 
  
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JKH112
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 28 Jan 2011
Posts: 336
Location: Bristol

2002 Porsche 996 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2015 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I may be wrong (probably am) but I thought that a 996 C2 was lighter than a GT3.
 
  
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MisterCorn
Zolder


Joined: 08 Jan 2011
Posts: 5019
Location: Nottingham, England

2004 Porsche 996 Turbo

PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2015 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Go with the LWFW and RSS mounts. 1kg off the flywheel is worth about 10kg off the rest of the car in first gear, less in higher gears, aim for reductions in rotating and unsprung mass. RSS mounts are great. I would keep A/C myself, but lose sound deadening and and seats which aren't needed. Weight high up is good to lose, but is removing the sunroof sensible financially?

Interesting project.

MC
 
  
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New997buyer
Dijon


Joined: 17 Oct 2010
Posts: 7575



PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2015 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kas750 wrote:
A very interesting project as an early C2 is not much heavier than a GT3.

subscribed. Thumb


+1

I'm fascinated by this as the picture on my profile should suggest. I worked with my mate in NI on his hill climb / sprint focused X1/9 when I lived there and it was a real test of ingenuity. (Oops, shattered the 'I've never got my hands dirty' myth...... Embarassed )

From what I remember while it's tempting to go for the 'big ticket' weight saving items, it was the overall cumulative effect of systematically finding the 'redundant systems and materials'. The compromises made vs the benefits is a really fascinating road to go down (no pun). I'll subscribed too Thumb

I'd agree with Mistercorn and if you're thinking of road use keeping the AC I'd thing through carefully. They're a lot of glass in 996 and most of us at somepoint have had the AC out of commission because of the condenser design flaw. And anytime between May and September in the sunlight it can get very hot in there? Dont know

But you know what you want to achieve so rock on and good luck! worship
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ELA
Suzuka


Joined: 30 Aug 2011
Posts: 1042
Location: Nurburgring Doorstep


PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2015 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok guys, made inroads into this little project. Had both the front and rear bumpers off to remove the impact bars. By my calculations I reckon about -130kg is possible without going too heavy into the expensive stuff.
So far here are the removed weights:

-Front impact beam (Incl bolts and brackets): 3.1kg
-Rear impact beam (Incl bolts and brackets): 3.8kg
-Jack 1.3kg
-Toolroll 0.8kg
-Spare wheel 11.3kg
-200 Cell cats 4.3kg
-RSS engine mounts










Been thinking about this for some time. Basically everyone would like a GT3 but the £50K difference between the C2 and GT3 is a little off-putting. My aim is to come up with a package where the end result is to get as close to the GT3 experience as possible but without the massive price delta. Initial thoughts are along the lines of retaining as much usability as is practically possible but to also give that GT3esque raw dynamic feel, sound and response; achieved broadly by doing the following:

-minus 130kg (complete strip and rebuild: engine out, sunroof issues etc)
-Line interior with Alcantara; (also if original car interior is a less than desirable colour leather, re-trim with Alcantara).
-LWFW and trick clutch plate to reduce noise
-200Cell cats
-Induction system
-Carbon with Alcantara seats
-Lightweight Alloys
-All in for say a £10k ballpark (not looked into this yet, so fag packet maths at present Grin

Should make for a formidable weapon, whilst still retaining the beauty and subtlety that makes the Carrera such a wonderful car.

I have just bought 3m2 of Alcantara so when I get a chance, I will have a little go at re-trimming the interior to see how it comes out...
_________________
1275kg 997GT3RS with:
Kessels 458bhp 3.8l & vgs-MS ECU
Akrapovic titanium exhaust
Cup 9:35 diff, Airbox, PAS, front lip
BBS 19's
H&R Suspension
Carbon wings/doors/bonnet/door cards

Last edited by ELA on Sat Jan 02, 2016 11:33 am; edited 3 times in total
 
  
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New997buyer
Dijon


Joined: 17 Oct 2010
Posts: 7575



PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2015 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thumbsup

Sound deadening, rear seats, rear wiper motor, stereo, amp......? That plus lightweight buckets should all be worth 15-20 kg's as well?

Not sure what the saving would be if you went from from a retractable spoiler to a ducktail or other fixed rear as well would be? If any? Dont know

Great so far though!?! Thumb
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kas750
Paul Ricard


Joined: 31 Mar 2013
Posts: 3132
Location: lancashire

2006 Porsche 911

PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2015 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice work. Thumb
 
  
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nicholas lawrence
Barcelona


Joined: 10 Apr 2014
Posts: 1319
Location: United Kingdom


PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2015 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lightweight Alloys - http://www.jzmporsche.com/shop/Porsche-Alloy-Wheels/Porsche-997-MM1-Lightweight-Wheels-11 (for 997, you can find similar if you ask around). Those Alloys save 60kg which is a serious saving.

Lightweight (or modified) engine cover lid - http://www.tuningcarbonhoods.co.uk/en/carbon-boot-spoiler/porsche-996-rear-wing-spoiler-boot.html (feel the weight of standard lid versus something like this)

Carbon Fibre/Fibreglass Doors - search Google

Carbon Fibre/Fibreglass Front Bumper - search Google


You could do the roof but might cause headache at resale. I wouldn't advise taking too much weight off the front if RWD model. Anything from the rear is a bonus.

Bootlid. Rear Bumper. Rear Seats and Carpet (can re-trim in thin carpet for aesthetics). Polycarbonate Windows from plastics4performance.


When you're all done get it on the weighbridge.


I personally like Air-Con and Power Steering but if you want to go completely crazy you can remove all of that and run an electric waterpump and racing car battery. With most ancillaries removed and underdrive pulley (or whatever everybody else does for quicker revs) you'll have a serious contender Wink


If the car is being used for local blasts and track use the Alternator could go in the bin as well. Racing Batteries aren't too expensive, you'll see 2-3 hours driving from a single charge. You need to calculate your total expected current draw but it is possible. If you stall it will start again, but use a Jump Pack the first time. The power loss of the alternator would be the last frictional resistance to rotation if you chopped everything else.
 
  
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JKH112
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 28 Jan 2011
Posts: 336
Location: Bristol

2002 Porsche 996 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2015 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like you have the standard exhausts. They are heavy.
Some aftermarket ones could save quite a bit of weight.
 
  
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nicholas lawrence
Barcelona


Joined: 10 Apr 2014
Posts: 1319
Location: United Kingdom


PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2015 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is there a weight comparison list for the exhausts available - sounds interesting!
 
  
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JohnnyDangerous
Estoril


Joined: 12 Jun 2013
Posts: 3589
Location: East Sussex


PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2015 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seats prob save 40kg, Ti exhaust, Voltphreaks Li battery, no spare or tool kit, those are the biggies
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JohnnyDangerous
Estoril


Joined: 12 Jun 2013
Posts: 3589
Location: East Sussex


PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2015 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Might be of help

http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/996-turbo-gt2/71489-official-turbo-weight-loss-thread-lightest-turbo-list.html
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drabux
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 01 Oct 2014
Posts: 331
Location: Bath


PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2015 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I want a pretty stock look and have gone for free mods:
Beams, front and rear
Rear sub woofer and door speakers (all heavy)
Rear seats
All the boot crap
45 Amp/hr battery lying around, which is much lighter and works fine.

Perhaps 60kg lost, but it still feels heavy compared to my old C4 nooo

The rear exhaust on the turbo and NA are both very heavy. That's the next area to tackle.
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JohnnyDangerous
Estoril


Joined: 12 Jun 2013
Posts: 3589
Location: East Sussex


PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is what you want

http://lightweightperformancetitaniumexhausts.co.uk/4-2?slug=product_info.php&cPath=24_65_66&products_id=79

That and a Voltphreaks battery will prob save close to 40kg
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jinjaninja
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 04 Oct 2012
Posts: 321
Location: SW London


PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Possibly a daft question: are the front and rear impact beams not rather important in the event of an impact??!
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