I want a Cayman ... but it seems they all explode !

Mr Moofo · 18 Aug 2015

Hi all,

A bit of a lurker in the past ... I was looking into buying a 911 about 4 years ago. My budget is limited to around 25k. It will be a weekend car - I already have a reasonable company car (BMW 330d) which isn't lacking in horsepower but ...
In looking at 911s I was firmly in 996 territory and bottom end 997. I started to read about intermediate shaft failures and decided that life was too short to buy into potential issue. So I went back to buying motorbikes ...
I have had my head turned by the Cayman ... the biggest issue was whether I can fit in one, but having sat in one, I now know I can.
However it is looking like a resist to the 996/997 woes. Scored barrels / IMS issue etc.
Still looking at 25k ...
So 06/07 Cayman S - however that does appear to be the troublesome engine. The car will be used for high days and holidays and track days ....

So questions about the 3.4:-
1) Is it really a mobile grenade?
2) The examples I am looking at are 40-50k. If there are issues with scored barrels will it have happened before this and been sorted , or does it happen anytime during the life of the car?
3) I see borescope mentioned a lot. It seems like a must have. How much does it cost / how quickly can it get done?
4) I am assuming that the borescope on is a snap shot of now - it will tell you that the car has got scored barrels. But I guess the issue could happen at ant stage in the future as well - or does the car get to 40k and if it hasn't happened by then, the future looks bright?

I have been looking a a green one in Ascot. Obviously the salesman was great about saying "don't believe everything you see on the internet" .... but then, he would say that , wouldn't he ...

So I am coming to the expert hive mind, so you can break me in gently ...
Thanks

wilpert · 18 Aug 2015

extend your budget to nearer 30k
Get a Gen2 and you wont lie awake worrying about scored bores and stuff.

Or go for an older Gen1 and don't pay 25k for it, you could get one for nearer 15k if its standard basic spec and leave 10 in the bank for rainy day.

If you are only going to do light mileage, then you could get something with a few miles on it and not worry too much.

Or go for a 911 but remember "it's still not a Cayman "

Just cleaned mine

bazhart · 18 Aug 2015

believe what you read but remember it only afflicts a very small number.

Scoring can occur under 10K (very very rare) or not upwards of 100K.

Factors influencing the outcome are the way it has been driven, random quality variations in the material of the cylinder bore, ambient temperatures, oil used and frequency of changes.

Spending a lot and buying low mileage doesn't escape potential problems - so you need to either have money in reserve to fix it, or pay for a trustworthy warranty.

If the engine fails you can fit a new one the same (most expensive), or variety of rebuilds some of which last longer than others (around half to 2/3rds of the New engine price).

Replacing with a used engine from a crashed car is a risky alternative.

Read up on the Internet - they are great cars - you are unlikely to have a problem in your ownership - but you could have problems if you spend everything on a car and have no fall back to fix it if it did go wrong in your ownership.

Baz

Mr Moofo · 18 Aug 2015

And that is great advice , thanks ....

In posting my message , I did sneak onto the 997 part of the site and start sniffing ....
The "get an older one, higher mileage" has been one of the game plans ...

But the critical question is still - if it has hit 60k does that mean bore scoring is unlikely to happen?

The other option would be to go for a 2.9 second gen

Bazhart
Scoring presumably means a "short engine" replacement and not the 12k version? so around 6k?
A mate had a 996 that had IMS issues --- bought for 22k, engine blew up, new engine was 12k. Rolling chassis sold for peanuts
I will also google the Hartech warranty

isysman · 18 Aug 2015

wilpert said:
...Or go for a 911 but remember "it's still not a Cayman "

I like it. made me laugh.

Mr Moofo · 18 Aug 2015

isysman said:
wilpert said:

...Or go for a 911 but remember "it's still not a Cayman "

Click to expand...

I like it. made me laugh.

Me aslo,

I love the smell of irony in the morning ...

wilpert · 18 Aug 2015

bazhart said:
believe what you read but remember it only afflicts a very small number.

Scoring can occur under 10K (very very rare) or not upwards of 100K.

Factors influencing the outcome are the way it has been driven, random quality variations in the material of the cylinder bore, ambient temperatures, oil used and frequency of changes.

Spending a lot and buying low mileage doesn't escape potential problems - so you need to either have money in reserve to fix it, or pay for a trustworthy warranty.

If the engine fails you can fit a new one the same (most expensive), or variety of rebuilds some of which last longer than others (around half to 2/3rds of the New engine price).

Replacing with a used engine from a crashed car is a risky alternative.

Read up on the Internet - they are great cars - you are unlikely to have a problem in your ownership - but you could have problems if you spend everything on a car and have no fall back to fix it if it did go wrong in your ownership.

Baz

Baz, do you know of any foibles with the gen 2 engines or have these yet to manifest themselves.
Also, what sort of upgrades can be done on the gen2 if somebody wants more poke?

TJW964 · 7 Jan 2016

If it is a 2008. 2.7, is it a Gen 1?

112k on the clock. Worth a look at £14k or not?
Looks clean, but need to see it in the flesh.

bs0u0118 · 8 Jan 2016

TJW964 said:
If it is a 2008. 2.7, is it a Gen 1?

112k on the clock. Worth a look at £14k or not?
Looks clean, but need to see it in the flesh.

Yes, definitely a Gen 1. The 987 Gen 2 base model had a 2.9 engine.

Without looking, I would think you could get slightly less miles and an S model for that money if you're happy with a standard spec model

pjvenda · 8 Jan 2016

Let's not forget that cars can be somewhat inspected before being bought and that there are reputable dealers out there. An independent inspection + a borescope test done by someone who knows what they're looking for can give you a great deal of piece of mind.

IMS bearings have been improved so if I remember correctly 997 MY06 (mid-2005) and later have this issue mostly mitigated. I'm sure the cayman got the upgraded engine too, probably around the same time, but someone else may be able to provide more accurate info.

And there's independent warranties like WD if you're not sure you'll have the extra a couple of years down the line to rebuild if need be.

Hope it helps.

Cheers,
Pedro.

bs0u0118 · 8 Jan 2016

If you get a car for a good price and build this into the budget then you should have peace of mind. They also sell cars, so if you bought from them you may be able to negotiate.

From personal experience, I had a 987 Gen 1 Cayman S and ran it to 90k miles as a daily driver and occasional track session. Never had an issue.

The failure rate is estimated at 8% for 986 and early 987 cars. All the facts and figures are laid out in the links below:

Porsche_Class_Action_Lawsuit_Failure_Percentages_Exhibit1383012197.gif

How do I know if my Porsche needs an IMS bearing replacement?

The question that almost everyone with a Porsche will ask..

You needn't worry if your car is a Generation 2 987 or 997 or later and the chances of it happening to those of you with a late 2005-2008 987, 997 or Cayman are very, very slim – so unless you are having an engine rebuild for other reasons, it's not going to be financially viable for you guys anyway. If you have a 986 or a 996, it's something you may consider, especially if you are due or require a clutch replacement.

Our advice however, is not to let it ruin your ownership. These cars are meant to be driven like sports cars, drive it often and replace the oil regularly (ideally more than the 2 year service interval).. that is important.

One theory for reason for failure on the early bearings is that the seal on the IMS bearing itself can dry out/shrink/start to leak, this can lead to penetration from engine oil (more so with the thinner oils such as 0w40 that is often thought to be the best (but not by us) for these engines). If the engine oil does start to seep through, it can flush the grease from the bearing and this can lead to the premature wear of the ball bearings themselves. Once this has happened, the bearing relies on splash lubrication from the engine oil – the theory then is that those which are rarely driven are more likely to fail than the ones that are driven often and with more spirit. However, this is not ideal and is no guarantee that the bearing will survive.

There are thousands of discussions on the internet about this subject, lots of great theories including the removal of the seal on the bearing to allow constant splash lubrication. Whether or not that is the right thing to do, we shall not get involved with, but safe to say that several engineering companies have done years of research and development and put there own products into the market. Several years on and thousands of installations later we find that the the retrofit bearing kits are the most popular and successful solution and when fitted correctly, by experienced technicians with the correct tools – should keep your Porsche happy for much longer than it would be with the original bearing fitted.

Ghostrider78 · 3 Feb 2016

You have to do the maths, the risk is still low with a Gen1 and i've always enjoyed mine with no issues. Baz is right, the number of affected cars is low.

The cost of a decent Gen1 Cayman plus an engine replacement slush fund is still cheaper than buying a Gen2. So if all you want from a Gen2 is the additional perceived reliability then it doesn't always make financial sense.

IMO the man maths goes like this.

You will suffer less depriciation on a Gen1, the odds sugest you won't suffer an egine failure and you could in all likliehood end up 3 years into ownership with a car that hasn't lost much value, still a healthy slush fund and as much enjoyment and the same experience as you would have had from a Gen2.

Vs

Potentially losing more money on deprication of the value of a Gen2 (a bit overpriced right now IMO) plus having no money in the slush fund because you spent it on the car.

I want a Cayman ... but it seems they all explode !

Mr Moofo

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wilpert

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