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nick w
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Joined: 02 Feb 2009
Posts: 5129
Location: Kent

2010 Porsche 997 GT3 RS

PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2015 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Dragonmeister wrote:
I know you are an experienced track driver but how about doing a track day where there is an instructor who knows how to get the most out of the GT3. e.g. Derek Bell or other drivers of a similar calibre sometimes do track days and give advice/tuition. I realise it is expensive if something goes wrong so getting advice from someone who is experienced will pay dividends.

With your track day insurance you will find it does not cover everything so the best insurance is avoiding putting yourself in a situation.

No disrespect but if current Formula 1 drivers and Grand Prix riders get tuition then there is potential for us all.


Very well said. Cool
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Cheburator
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Joined: 15 Aug 2014
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2015 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bryce wrote:
There's no doubt that the 92 is a very capable car but it's just not as fun as my GT3 to drive. I've spent £15k on modifications and nowt on the Porsche. Different league altogether.

I see three options:

1. Continue spending on the M3.
2. Punt the M3 and track the GT3.
3. Punt the M3 and go more track focused or even a lighter e46.

I managed to get a lap with Moran (M3 GOT). He's doing 7.3x's and he's recently spent a lump on the car converting it to LHD and cage plus clubsport suspension. The car is unbelievable but more so the driver. He's also done away with the air con. The car is fun, but it's not nice to sit in. I'm not out to set times, I'm there to have fun and times will follow. I want to be reasonable comfortable in the process.

A final option, a bloody expensive option at that, would be to buy another GT3 997.1) and use that as a track car but really that's probably just bloody daft to save the paint on my Gen2.

ETA: I've only removed some interior on the 92 and with new seats it's weighing in at around 1540kg. My CSL is 1380kg and not sure on GT3.


What do you want out of the car? Outright speed? Then a VF supecharger could be your answer. Next weekend my brother will try his race E46 M3 against a 997.1 RS with 996 cup box and diff on track. Both cars are on slicks. The M3 is running 520bhp. GSR have dropped several S65 engines into E46 M3 coupes, which is also an option.

Or perhaps sell the E46 M3 and buy a V8 M3. Just a little story for you. A friend has a CSL, with PSS10s, 997 brakes, square 18" set up and Direzzas. Has probably done 250+ laps so he knows the place. Just before Mis-Hit-Miss we get flashed out of the way by a white V8 M3 on UK plates. Matt goes mental and says to me "watch this, the CSL is far lighter and superior car overall than this tub of lard..." We were going under the gantry, while the other M3 was close to pulling in at the barriers. The V8 is just superior in every aspect, driver emotions excluded. it turned out the V8 was Schirmered, but still a daily driver.

As to the black V8 Schirmer - this car is quicker than most GT3s in the hands of Tom...
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nick w
Zolder


Joined: 02 Feb 2009
Posts: 5129
Location: Kent

2010 Porsche 997 GT3 RS

PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2015 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cheburator wrote:
bryce wrote:
There's no doubt that the 92 is a very capable car but it's just not as fun as my GT3 to drive. I've spent £15k on modifications and nowt on the Porsche. Different league altogether.

I see three options:

1. Continue spending on the M3.
2. Punt the M3 and track the GT3.
3. Punt the M3 and go more track focused or even a lighter e46.

I managed to get a lap with Moran (M3 GOT). He's doing 7.3x's and he's recently spent a lump on the car converting it to LHD and cage plus clubsport suspension. The car is unbelievable but more so the driver. He's also done away with the air con. The car is fun, but it's not nice to sit in. I'm not out to set times, I'm there to have fun and times will follow. I want to be reasonable comfortable in the process.

A final option, a bloody expensive option at that, would be to buy another GT3 997.1) and use that as a track car but really that's probably just bloody daft to save the paint on my Gen2.

ETA: I've only removed some interior on the 92 and with new seats it's weighing in at around 1540kg. My CSL is 1380kg and not sure on GT3.


What do you want out of the car? Outright speed? Then a VF supecharger could be your answer. Next weekend my brother will try his race E46 M3 against a 997.1 RS with 996 cup box and diff on track. Both cars are on slicks. The M3 is running 520bhp. GSR have dropped several S65 engines into E46 M3 coupes, which is also an option.

Or perhaps sell the E46 M3 and buy a V8 M3. Just a little story for you. A friend has a CSL, with PSS10s, 997 brakes, square 18" set up and Direzzas. Has probably done 250+ laps so he knows the place. Just before Mis-Hit-Miss we get flashed out of the way by a white V8 M3 on UK plates. Matt goes mental and says to me "watch this, the CSL is far lighter and superior car overall than this tub of lard..." We were going under the gantry, while the other M3 was close to pulling in at the barriers. The V8 is just superior in every aspect, driver emotions excluded. it turned out the V8 was Schirmered, but still a daily driver.

As to the black V8 Schirmer - this car is quicker than most GT3s in the hands of Tom...


Ah yes, on the last few DN's we've come across a locally driven black M3
Schirmer, on 'daum' plates...interior is seriously lightened, carbon everywhere
and boy he knows the place. The car is beautifully planted and carries huge
speed through pretty much everywhere... ! Thumb
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Cheburator
Trainee


Joined: 15 Aug 2014
Posts: 86



PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2015 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nick w wrote:


Ah yes, on the last few DN's we've come across a locally driven black M3
Schirmer, on 'daum' plates...interior is seriously lightened, carbon everywhere
and boy he knows the place. The car is beautifully planted and carries huge
speed through pretty much everywhere... ! Thumb


The "Tom" in my post stood for Tom Schirmer Wink thumbsup

They are amazing cars, just not as involving as a GT3... But facing the prospect of 10k excess on my mint Mk1 CS vs 15k for a self build E46 M3 I'd live without the involvement... Or just track the 944 Turbo Cup...
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nick w
Zolder


Joined: 02 Feb 2009
Posts: 5129
Location: Kent

2010 Porsche 997 GT3 RS

PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2015 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cheburator wrote:
nick w wrote:


Ah yes, on the last few DN's we've come across a locally driven black M3
Schirmer, on 'daum' plates...interior is seriously lightened, carbon everywhere
and boy he knows the place. The car is beautifully planted and carries huge
speed through pretty much everywhere... ! Thumb


The "Tom" in my post stood for Tom Schirmer Wink thumbsup

They are amazing cars, just not as involving as a GT3... But facing the prospect of 10k excess on my mint Mk1 CS vs 15k for a self build E46 M3 I'd live without the involvement... Or just track the 944 Turbo Cup...


I never got the chance to ask him, is it chipped and running a standard
exhaust ?
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bryce
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 24 May 2012
Posts: 315



PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2015 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cheburator wrote:
bryce wrote:
There's no doubt that the 92 is a very capable car but it's just not as fun as my GT3 to drive. I've spent £15k on modifications and nowt on the Porsche. Different league altogether.

I see three options:

1. Continue spending on the M3.
2. Punt the M3 and track the GT3.
3. Punt the M3 and go more track focused or even a lighter e46.

I managed to get a lap with Moran (M3 GOT). He's doing 7.3x's and he's recently spent a lump on the car converting it to LHD and cage plus clubsport suspension. The car is unbelievable but more so the driver. He's also done away with the air con. The car is fun, but it's not nice to sit in. I'm not out to set times, I'm there to have fun and times will follow. I want to be reasonable comfortable in the process.

A final option, a bloody expensive option at that, would be to buy another GT3 997.1) and use that as a track car but really that's probably just bloody daft to save the paint on my Gen2.

ETA: I've only removed some interior on the 92 and with new seats it's weighing in at around 1540kg. My CSL is 1380kg and not sure on GT3.


What do you want out of the car? Outright speed? Then a VF supecharger could be your answer. Next weekend my brother will try his race E46 M3 against a 997.1 RS with 996 cup box and diff on track. Both cars are on slicks. The M3 is running 520bhp. GSR have dropped several S65 engines into E46 M3 coupes, which is also an option.

Or perhaps sell the E46 M3 and buy a V8 M3. Just a little story for you. A friend has a CSL, with PSS10s, 997 brakes, square 18" set up and Direzzas. Has probably done 250+ laps so he knows the place. Just before Mis-Hit-Miss we get flashed out of the way by a white V8 M3 on UK plates. Matt goes mental and says to me "watch this, the CSL is far lighter and superior car overall than this tub of lard..." We were going under the gantry, while the other M3 was close to pulling in at the barriers. The V8 is just superior in every aspect, driver emotions excluded. it turned out the V8 was Schirmered, but still a daily driver.

As to the black V8 Schirmer - this car is quicker than most GT3s in the hands of Tom...



I am not after outright speed at all - if I wanted that I'd have bought a dull GTR and mince everything on the exits and straights.

What I am after is outright fun. Something that feels nimble and precise in my hands. Something that gives lots of feedback.


I've sat passenger in a couple of Schrimer road cars and they are bloody quick but they still feel cumbersome and with the DCT its just looks too easy to go fast.

As mentioned my friend has a well set up CSL - AP's, square wheels with sticky tyres and now some nice coilovers and it just felt a far better steer. I felt feedback and I felt comfortable.

By the way - it is a 92 I have with some bolt ons.
 
  
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bryce
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 24 May 2012
Posts: 315



PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2015 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Dragonmeister wrote:
I know you are an experienced track driver but how about doing a track day where there is an instructor who knows how to get the most out of the GT3. e.g. Derek Bell or other drivers of a similar calibre sometimes do track days and give advice/tuition. I realise it is expensive if something goes wrong so getting advice from someone who is experienced will pay dividends.

With your track day insurance you will find it does not cover everything so the best insurance is avoiding putting yourself in a situation.

No disrespect but if current Formula 1 drivers and Grand Prix riders get tuition then there is potential for us all.


Far from experienced - I have only done 28 laps of the Ring!

Instruction is something I have considered but I figured I needed to learn the track more as well otherwise I'd be concentrating on where I am steering rather than taking in any advice.

I like to think I drive within my limits, its maybe just the other clowns round about me or a small hiccup / red mist that concerns me.
 
  
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Cheburator
Trainee


Joined: 15 Aug 2014
Posts: 86



PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2015 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bryce wrote:



I am not after outright speed at all - if I wanted that I'd have bought a dull GTR and mince everything on the exits and straights.

What I am after is outright fun. Something that feels nimble and precise in my hands. Something that gives lots of feedback.


I've sat passenger in a couple of Schrimer road cars and they are bloody quick but they still feel cumbersome and with the DCT its just looks too easy to go fast.

As mentioned my friend has a well set up CSL - AP's, square wheels with sticky tyres and now some nice coilovers and it just felt a far better steer. I felt feedback and I felt comfortable.

By the way - it is a 92 I have with some bolt ons.


Used to have an SMG E46, which my dad now has - much nicer to drive than the 92, so perhaps sell the E92 and pick up a good prepared E46 or have one built? My brother and I were thinking at one point about building an E46 GTR replica with a S62, but it got complicated/expensive quickly for a marginal gain vs. supercharging it.

A friend of mine just picked up a race Z3M V10 for EUR20k. To make me even more jealous, it also had the rear suspension of the donor M6 transplanted, so it actually handles beautifully on its Intrax 4-way
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Senoj
Shanghai


Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 4921
Location: Sussex


PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2015 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its not that hard to get an e46 on equal terms with a CSL, both need some modding for serious track toy at which point the CSL advantage has disappeared. The "downside" is SMG only on the CSL.

i think you need first hand experience of your GT3 on track before you'll know which way to go next.
 
  
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nick w
Zolder


Joined: 02 Feb 2009
Posts: 5129
Location: Kent

2010 Porsche 997 GT3 RS

PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2015 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Senoj wrote:
Its not that hard to get an e46 on equal terms with a CSL, both need some modding for serious track toy at which point the CSL advantage has disappeared. The "downside" is SMG only on the CSL.

i think you need first hand experience of your GT3 on track before you'll know which way to go next.


+1 Wink
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bryce
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Joined: 24 May 2012
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2015 11:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Drove it tonight, in the rain - there goes the resale.

 
  
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Richyd
Watkins Glen


Joined: 04 Feb 2011
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2015 1:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bloody hell - just get in it and drive the damn thing.

My mint 7.2 GT3 CS has gone from 6300 miles to 11k miles in 6 months, and every one of those miles made me smile. I'm planning to track it this autumn if I can just get the time.

I know what you mean about the values of these things impacting how you view them as track cars, but hell, what were they built for..???

Go and have a play in it.. Very Happy
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isysman
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Joined: 22 Apr 2011
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2015 8:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bryce wrote:
Drove it tonight, in the rain - there goes the resale.



Stunning car, has the folding buckets as well! Lovely. I'd say you need to ask yourself this. If you are never going to sell it, then is the value important to you? It's only worth that kind of money if you sell it, otherwise it's just a great car that was made to be driven. Whether you track it or not, I'll leave out because I don't track mine but you should drive it.

If you really want a track car but don't want to track this car, then I'd sell this car and use some of the money to buy a Carrera S and modify it as a track car. Or sell the BMW and buy the Carrera S to track. You will get a lot of the thrills in a modified 911.
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askgeez
Suzuka


Joined: 05 Apr 2015
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2015 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How much fun.....

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=321829697825&globalID=EBAY-GB
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Senoj
Shanghai


Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 4921
Location: Sussex


PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2015 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

askgeez wrote:
How much fun.....

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=321829697825&globalID=EBAY-GB


Good point but no number plates Hand
 
  
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spyderman
Suzuka


Joined: 26 Jul 2009
Posts: 1094
Location: near Milton Keynes


PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2015 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

askgeez wrote:
How much fun.....

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=321829697825&globalID=EBAY-GB


That was Dave Hughes car. He actually owned two at one point. Exactly the same spec as mine was, although mine was based on a 2003 car.
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bryce
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 24 May 2012
Posts: 315



PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2015 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Needs to be road legal for me so I can do tourist days at Ring.

Another of the GT3 - drove it again last night.



and the M3 I'm moaning about



The shifter

 
  
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C2VNY
Monza


Joined: 11 Jul 2012
Posts: 166



PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mate! Take the GT3 on track! They're amazing and the best thing about them is the steering feedback you get, which the m3 does lack sadly. I'm looking into ways to buy one again but the wife is not happy and I really do need more than two seats with the baby Sad

Anyone that says e9x m3's are just cruisers haven't really gave them a chance. My 1700kg e90m3 with me driving has set faster lap times than any Csl at my local track.

Did you not have Tom set the car up when you where over, Bryce?






P.s the e92 looks brillant Thumb
 
  
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isysman
Zolder


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just sold the entire back seats setup out of my Tirbo to a guy who owns a GT3 and has three kids. He wanted to be able to take them all out so he's fitting rear seats!


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bryce
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 24 May 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

C2VNY wrote:
Mate! Take the GT3 on track! They're amazing and the best thing about them is the steering feedback you get, which the m3 does lack sadly. I'm looking into ways to buy one again but the wife is not happy and I really do need more than two seats with the baby Sad

Anyone that says e9x m3's are just cruisers haven't really gave them a chance. My 1700kg e90m3 with me driving has set faster lap times than any Csl at my local track.

Did you not have Tom set the car up when you where over, Bryce?






P.s the e92 looks brillant Thumb


Loved the colour of your GT3 Viney, and it looks the business on three wheels!

Feedback is on a different level with the GT3. Perhaps the 265's on the front of the M3 numb it a little.

Having had both, what car would you be in now if money/ seats etc didn't matter for a track toy?

For others reading, Vineys M3 is similar set up to mine though his being DCT. Brakes, Suspension and Wheels are almost identical. My Coupe appears to be a lump lighter as well?
 
  
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