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courtthree
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Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 24



PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 7:30 pm    Post subject: 991.2 GTS - Naturally Aspirated or Turbo charged Reply with quote

Hi all,

I have just placed an order for a 991.1 GTS 3.8 430bhp naturally aspirated 911. I placed the order believing that I would be buying a piece of history - the best of the last naturally aspirated 911s (excluding the GT3 of course).

Suddenly, on Sunday, I got a nasty shock. Autocar (in their printed magazine dated 5th August 2015) are claiming that the 991.2 GTS will remain naturally aspirated alongside the GT3!!!

If that's the case, I've just gone and paid top money for a car that will be out of date within a few months of delivery. Don't get me wrong, it's absolutely fantastic (drove it at Silverstone on Saturday and had the time of life) but I'll miss out on all the new model improvements for roughly the same money.

I must also say that Porsche deny this claim and that I cannot find any other source online to corroborate Autoar's story. Has anyone got any insight into this?
 
  
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carkid
Imola


Joined: 13 Nov 2012
Posts: 831
Location: England


PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's a tricky situation - a first world problem though.....
You could hold the fort and if the new GTS is a turbo just
buy a secondhand 991.1 GTS?
But then if the new version is NA you'll be a long time taking delivery
if you cancel your current order....
Considering Autocar were in South Africa recently whilst Porsche tested the latest cars it seems odd if they would print such information if it were not true... Question
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courtthree
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Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 24



PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 7:55 pm    Post subject: A first world problem indeed! Reply with quote

Yeah, let's be honest, there are real problems in the world of course. Oh boo hoo hoo, my new Porsche might be very slightly out of date etc... Wink Reality check fully acknowledged!

I must add that I found the corresponding article online on Autocar's website and the bit about the GTS wasn't in there. And yes, you're right, all the pictures they showed were from the South Africa test.

I have told the dealership that I will retract my order if they haven't been straight with me about this but I also don't want to lose my October build slot because it is such a weapon!
 
  
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isysman
Zolder


Joined: 22 Apr 2011
Posts: 5548
Location: Cheshire


PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is true, you could be waiting a year for the new model. It's weird and unchartered territory really on two fronts. 1. Turbo engines coming and 2. GTS was until now end of product range model.

If the new GTS remains a NA car AND manual transmission it will be quite the car to have in the new world of Turbo engines! Chris Harris is raving about his long term manual GTS right now.
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mactrack
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Journalists what do they know;

http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews/driven/1508-on-the-road-in-2017-porsche-911-carrera-s/

"From a passenger perspective, there is no turbo lag as such, but somehow the throttle action does not feel quite as electrifying as we remember it from the soon defunct GTS motor, which reached its cut-out speed 500 rpm later."

Either way a nice problem to have as I would dearly love a 991 GTS, or even a 997, but given that they can be picked up for £90K with some spec nearly new perhaps cancelling and waiting to see what happens is worthwhile? Although if the new turbo engines don't get glowing reviews expect a short-term spike in NA prices especially the GTS!
 
  
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courtthree
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Joined: 02 Aug 2015
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 8:40 pm    Post subject: Music to my ears! Reply with quote

Mactrak, how did you find that story? I've spent the last 48 hours solidly searching and never saw that! WELL DONE!!!!

I might be in the clear! Perhaps the very last of the naturally aspirated manual transmissions will be mine after all!

Now I'm excited! REALLY excited.

Thank you.
 
  
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apollokre1d
Magny-Cours


Joined: 06 Nov 2012
Posts: 2661
Location: United Kingdom


PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 9:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Music to my ears! Reply with quote

courtthree wrote:
Mactrak, how did you find that story? I've spent the last 48 hours solidly searching and never saw that! WELL DONE!!!!

I might be in the clear! Perhaps the very last of the naturally aspirated manual transmissions will be mine after all!

Now I'm excited! REALLY excited.

Thank you.


"Old news" mate Smile

http://www.911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=104872&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=20
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courtthree
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2015 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The plot thickens guys. I have contacted Autocar about their story and they are standing by it! They are saying that the GTS will remain NA!

In addition, Porsche GB have point blank refused to confirm or deny it (I contacted them too).

I really suspect the GTS might remain NA after all? Anyone got any further thoughts? Buy it anyway? Wait for the 991.2 and risk a massive price increase? Wait for the 991.2 and risk a turbo after all?
 
  
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carkid
Imola


Joined: 13 Nov 2012
Posts: 831
Location: England


PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2015 2:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The current 991 GTS is so utterly sublime to drive I really don't think any improvements made with the 991.2 version will be enough to make you regret getting one now.
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mark pearce
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2015 7:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought the new turbo engine was due to the next batch of euro emission regulations?
As the gts has been on 2 models a run out version
My logic makes me think the next gets won't be introduced at the beginning of the gen 2 model range and thus I can't see Porsche building a new non turbo engine with the latest emission regulations just for the next gts?
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courtthree
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Joined: 02 Aug 2015
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2015 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Carkid's right. The current GTS is unbelievable. Drove it at Silverstone last week and I cannot fault it. You could never be disappointed with it. The only thing that would be difficult to swallow would be paying full money for an end of line car which will be virtually equalled in performance by the incoming (and far cheaper) 991.2 S models.

Mark, you're right too. It is an emissions thing and I've been rationalising it the same way. Surely they can't maintain the naturally aspirated engine just for the GTS. The only counter to that is that the GT3 is definitely remaining NA so there will be a non-turbo engine available. My guess is that it would go to 4 litre so it can be sufficiently more powerful than the S models with their turbos. That also leads me to believe it would be a lot more expensive.

What really gets me is that Porsche won't tell us and that means they are taking orders under false pretences.
 
  
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carkid
Imola


Joined: 13 Nov 2012
Posts: 831
Location: England


PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2015 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's certainly all foggy and vague regarding forthcoming 911 GTS models which is far from ideal if you are thinking of spending about 100k now-
Porsche should be more forthcoming with clear info.
The new base C2S models will nearly match the current GTS for performance- but I adore the alcantara interior and whole package of the current GTS....it somehow feels more special than the standard all leather interior of the C2S- along with the sharper handling.
Also, if the 997 GTS is anything to go by they seem to have better residuals than the far more plentiful base models.
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isysman
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2015 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmmm I have a thought. What if the rumour of the GT model with manual gearbox will be the GTS? So they take a GT3 lump put a manual GTS box on it and most likely de tune it. Maybe that's why the big secret...
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mark pearce
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2015 6:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The GTS has had a X51 Powerkit - different cam profiles, manifolds sports exhaust
as the Gen 2 car will be a turbo engine.

Would it not be easier/ cheaper to tweak the turbo than new heads and manifolds?

The details of the Gen 2 power kit from the Porsche Car Configurator, when amended, may give an indication of the next GTS engine?
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Mark Strong
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Joined: 02 Oct 2013
Posts: 27
Location: London


PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2015 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

courtthree, I am in the same boat as you, except my GTS gets built on the 3rd of September... Hurray!

I agree with Mark that most likely the 991.2 GTS will not be introduced straight away. Most likely Porsche will offer C2/C2S to start with. In the past C4/C4S were released after about 6 month after the basic (if you can call them that) Carrera's.

I bugged my dealer and a couple of Porsche guys at the Porsche Club event this weekend with these questions and I think I will stick with my order on the current generation GTS.
Even though 991.2 will be faster, more economical and will have more gadgets, the 991.1 GTS will be more special! 991.2 C2/4/S will be a novelty for the next 6 months but after that they will be common... And GTS will remain that bit special for years to come. You will be losing money on a new car anyway so let's just get something that make us to feel good..
 
  
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courtthree
Newbie


Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 24



PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2015 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Exciting times Mark! 3rd September? I bet you are beside yourself?! Out of interest, did you manual or PDK and, which ever you chose, why?

My main concern for this generation GTS isn't that the next one will be "better" as such. The next gen is (arguably) always that. It's simply about the turbo/NA debate. I do want something special and the best of the last NA 911s is a piece of motoring history!

I must admit I am really tempted to say, "what the hell" and get it anyway but I also must admit that I would be much happier knowing it really is the last of the dying breed.
 
  
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Mark Strong
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh yes! I also opted for a factory collection and will be picking it up from Zuffenhausen on the 25th of September.

I went for the PDK. I never actually considered a Manual transmission as PDK is faster, more economical, easier to use and... I maybe have forgotten how to drive manual as my last two cars had automatic transmission or... maybe I am just not, as TheGetawayer said, a very good driver or :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7EYoqggEM4

Here is the link to my though process on buying a Porsche and the final specs: New 911 GTS or used Turbo / S?

Well, this is the difficult one. Unless you can get some "inside" knowledge, buying a GTS now or waiting for the 991.2 GTS is a gamble. I may be wrong but the GTS always was the creme de la crème of a particular 911 generation and therefore I would not expect Porsche to release 991.2 GTS straight away, maybe in a year or so. At least this is what I AM betting on.
 
  
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The Dragonmeister
Monza


Joined: 28 Apr 2012
Posts: 207



PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm surprised you didn't get the opportunity to drive the 991 in manual form. The shifts are very good, the clutch is well weighted and above all its fun!

The 991 GTS automatic is very good, its a shame the 991 GTS in manual form is as rare as rocking horse manure as there is one on pistonheads for sale and Chris Harris seems to have the other one in UK.

Having driven a brand new Golf R automatic I can surmise the next version of the 911 automatic will be even better as the shifts in the VW are much quicker than the 991 automatic and they have put the paddles very close to the steering wheel for even quicker gear changes.
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courtthree
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had to go to the test track at Silverstone to get a go in a manual (only one my dealer could find). I definitely preferred it but I am old school like that. I have a manual 997.2 C4S right now and I've always found any auto to be less interesting to drive.

I couldn't notice the 0-60 difference but I admit, the quoted 3.8 seconds for the PDK in launch control makes it VERY appealing.

I also hadn't thought about the GTS not being released for several months. That is good on the one hand but also bad in that I may not get a definitive answer in time to finalise my spec.

I'm still completely undecided.
 
  
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The Dragonmeister
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you like the manual, buy the manual!

The difference in 0-60 is academic as even most track days do not allow timing in UK.
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