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alex yates
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Joined: 06 Mar 2014
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2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 4:55 pm    Post subject: IMS data collection update - 132 cars (Page 3) Reply with quote

Just been looking at the data collected so far and thrown a couple of graphs together for folk to look at.

Here's a couple of bar charts showing which engines and models have sustained a failure:

Total number of failures - 9.8%
of which 3.4 - 0% and 3.6 - 13.3%
of which all X51 - 0%, C2 - 16.6% and C4S - 14.81%



Looking at the 6 failures reported I've done a graph displaying their mileage over time and 3 points - registered date, Failure date and data inputted date.

Notice how 5 of the 6 failures were all registered within a 12 month period and out of those, 3 of them failed within a few weeks of each other 9 years later.
Last reported failure was July 2014 and then June 2013 before that.



I'll do any updates in this post rather than the sticky so it doesn't get too messy in that post.

Once again, thank you to everybody involved. thumbsup
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Last edited by alex yates on Sat Dec 01, 2018 11:35 am; edited 6 times in total
 
  
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

keep up the good work Thumb
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rottenbend
Magny-Cours


Joined: 22 Aug 2010
Posts: 2588
Location: Hertfordshire

1997 Porsche 993 Carrera 2S

PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for doing the analysis Alex. I'm still considering getting into an early car before prices begin to rise.

I suspect the % failure rate may be higher than the true norm for reasons discussed in the original thread.

Hopefully more data will continue to be added as this should increase the accuracy.

The breakdown between models is really interesting. Seems that some of the theories (such as early 3.4's are less prone to this kind of failure) are borne out in the sample.

Are you thinking of doing a level-headed bore score survey once this is completed? Might throw up some interesting patterns too? You can never have too much information and nice to see these issues discussed in a sensible way.
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GT4
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is the best bet a 3.4 X51 (with LTT)?

I only ask as I have an option on one Bandit
 
  
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alex yates
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bore-score is next on my list Thumb
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Niall996
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well done.

On Bore Score, what are the symptoms? How would you know you had it?
 
  
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alex yates
Brands Hatch
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2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GT4 wrote:
Is the best bet a 3.4 X51 (with LTT)?

I only ask as I have an option on one Bandit


Make sure you check out previous owners Wink
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Chris_in_the_UK
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Joined: 19 Mar 2014
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Niall996 wrote:
Well done.

On Bore Score, what are the symptoms? How would you know you had it?


Excessive oil consumption and (blue) smokey exhaust - with associated sooty tailpipe.
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jm24
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great work. The only actual analysis I've seen despite the endless 'discussions'.
 
  
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Niall996
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chris_in_the_UK wrote:
Niall996 wrote:
Well done.

On Bore Score, what are the symptoms? How would you know you had it?


Excessive oil consumption and (blue) smokey exhaust - with associated sooty tailpipe.


thanks
 
  
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paul987
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Joined: 27 Feb 2015
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very interesting results.. so most seem to be at quite low mileage? My new engine is coming upto 40k odd now. Fingers, toes, legs and arms crossed Laughing
 
  
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Chris_in_the_UK
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Will be interesting to see how many have changed the bearing due to paranoia rather than need?
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alex yates
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll post some info over the weekend on replacements.
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Chris_in_the_UK
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

alex yates wrote:
I'll post some info over the weekend on replacements.


thumbsup
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rottenbend
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chris_in_the_UK wrote:
Will be interesting to see how many have changed the bearing due to paranoia rather than need?


Difficult to prove that one, though. You could look at it the other way and it might be interesting to see if any bearings that have been changed consequently failed? If not (or the failure rate is significantly lower), it's difficult to say that changing is necessarily a bad thing, if the result is a lower failure rate and less paranoia? However, I suspect the current sample size is not big enough to be conclusive one way or the other.
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alex yates
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rottenbend wrote:
Chris_in_the_UK wrote:
Will be interesting to see how many have changed the bearing due to paranoia rather than need?


Difficult to prove that one, though. You could look at it the other way and it might be interesting to see if any bearings that have been changed consequently failed? If not (or the failure rate is significantly lower), it's difficult to say that changing is necessarily a bad thing, if the result is a lower failure rate and less paranoia? However, I suspect the current sample size is not big enough to be conclusive one way or the other.


Surprised In the quiet words of the Virgin Mary... come again?
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Chris_in_the_UK
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2015 7:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rottenbend wrote:
Chris_in_the_UK wrote:
Will be interesting to see how many have changed the bearing due to paranoia rather than need?


Difficult to prove that one, though. You could look at it the other way and it might be interesting to see if any bearings that have been changed consequently failed? If not (or the failure rate is significantly lower), it's difficult to say that changing is necessarily a bad thing, if the result is a lower failure rate and less paranoia? However, I suspect the current sample size is not big enough to be conclusive one way or the other.


Maybe I have not been clear?

I meant how many people had a perfectly running car with no issues but they have changed the bearing anyway as a precaution. I am not saying that changing it under these circumstances is bad, just curious how many were changed as a precaution.
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rottenbend
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2015 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

alex yates wrote:
rottenbend wrote:
Chris_in_the_UK wrote:
Will be interesting to see how many have changed the bearing due to paranoia rather than need?


Difficult to prove that one, though. You could look at it the other way and it might be interesting to see if any bearings that have been changed consequently failed? If not (or the failure rate is significantly lower), it's difficult to say that changing is necessarily a bad thing, if the result is a lower failure rate and less paranoia? However, I suspect the current sample size is not big enough to be conclusive one way or the other.


Surprised In the quiet words of the Virgin Mary... come again?


Sorry it was a bit late when I wrote that and I misinterpreted Chris's post. Very Happy

I think the choice of whether or not to change/modify the bearing seems to depend very much on the type of bearing. This has been talked about for a while and this dataset seems to support those theories. If I bought a 3.4 I probably wouldn't bother, other cars I might do it as preventative measure:?:

What is for certain is that the more owners know about this issue and how it may or may not affect their car, the better more informed decisions they can make. Which can only be a good thing Thumb
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rottenbend
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2015 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chris_in_the_UK wrote:
Maybe I have not been clear?

I meant how many people had a perfectly running car with no issues but they have changed the bearing anyway as a precaution. I am not saying that changing it under these circumstances is bad, just curious how many were changed as a precaution.


Thumb
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alex yates
Brands Hatch
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2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2015 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chris_in_the_UK wrote:
alex yates wrote:
I'll post some info over the weekend on replacements.


thumbsup


9962 C2 X51 3.6 replaced at 49,000 (preventative)
9962 C4S 3.6 Bearing replaced for peace of mind and showed minimal play. Dust shields removed
9962 C2 3.6 Parr replacement - preventative - original found to be in perfect condition. Bearing replaced for peace of mind and improve residual value of car
9962 C2 3.6 IMS replaced October 2014. Replaced IMS with modified kit from Northway alongside with new RMS which needed doing. Mix of Porsche and Specilalist history
9962 C4S 3.6 replaced twice in the space of a few months by the previous owner at Parr (original replacement LNS? failed very quickly and engine was leaking oil?). assuming it actually failed, the original was replaced Q4 2012
9961 C4 3.4 replaced by me at 95k as a preventative measure. Bought from Pelican parts. Single row bearing used to replace double row. Old bearing was in perfect condition.
9962 Anniversary 3.6 Upgraded Hartech bearing now fitted
9962 C4S 3.6 I had the bearing replaced when I bought the car as a preventative maintenance thing (LN bearing). (The original turned out to be fine BTW).
9962 C4S 3.6 IMS was replaced in February 2011 during Hartech engine rebuild. The rebuild was primarily to fix bore scoring, I assume IMS was replaced as a preventative measure rather than failure.
9962 C4S X51 3.6 Previous owner elected to go for a replacement clutch/RMS seal/IMS bearing (ceramic I think) during a major service in 2001 @ 12,000 miles. Not due to any problems but rather as a preventative/upgrade.
9962 C2 3.6 bearing: Original removed but was till in good order, @58k , bearing 2: Hartech, no seals: Removed but still in good order, @85k, bearing 3: Hartech, no seals: Currently fitted.



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