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Richyd
Watkins Glen


Joined: 04 Feb 2011
Posts: 2219
Location: Sunny Tunny Wells


PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2015 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just sat down!

Sorry again - no way I could have left the house today, which is a real bummer as the sun came out....

Anyway - is someone going to post up some readings at some point??
_________________
1997 993 C2S
2018 Macan GTS

ex - 2018 991.2 GTS
ex - 2016 GT4
ex - 2015 Macan S
ex - 2009 997.2 GT3 CS
ex - 2006 997.1 GT3
ex - 1997 993 Carrera 4
ex - 2006 987 Boxster S
 
  
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Stuart
General
General


Joined: 16 Sep 2007
Posts: 5080
Location: Waterworld

2004 Porsche 996 GT3 Mk2

PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2015 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ditto, thanks to Tanvir for organising, was good fun and actually quite educational. Didn't really get any decent photos…







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Stuart
General
General


Joined: 16 Sep 2007
Posts: 5080
Location: Waterworld

2004 Porsche 996 GT3 Mk2

PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2015 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guess I'll be the first:

996.2 GT3
M&M exhaust
EVOMsIT map



After all the problems on my exhaust journey (see threads) I'm fairly happy with that.

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Last edited by Stuart on Mon May 11, 2015 7:22 am; edited 1 time in total
 
  
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LaSource
Nürburgring


Joined: 08 Feb 2009
Posts: 472



PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2015 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So first of all, many thanks to everyone for bringing their legendary machines with them. We had a excellent gathering and it was good to see everyone there from beginning to the very end. Also thanks to Charlie and his team for diligently working through the schedule and taking care of each car.

An amazing line up of machinery...each and every one special in its own way....that's the GT3 for you!

Secondly, there are no winners or losers in terms of the results. A rolling road does help to highlight if a car is running perfectly or something (usually quite minor) needs attention.

Overall the results went to reconfirm that Porsche does not lie when it comes to engine power...and we know the 911 platform generally punches above its weight on circuits the world over.

The std cars made healthy numbers slightly more than book. The 996.2s seemed to have the greater result over book (which frankly is in line with expectations about this variant)

996.1 GT3 - 357hp
996.2 GT3 - 390-399hp
996.2 RS - 408hp (418hp with mods)
997.1 GT3 - 415hp
997.1 RS - unfortunately would not play ball on the dyno..but was very happy once off it..owner alleged afterwards it had 500hp Wink
997.2 GT3 - 419hp
997.2 RS - 456hp (487hp with centre muffler bypass)
997.2 RS 4.0 - 490

Quite surprised with my 997.2 RS posting 30hp above with only a centre bypass mod. I believe the std 455hp car may return with a bypass for a recheck - 30bhp seems too much just for that mod imv, but let's see.

The 4.0 is meant to be 493 bhp so it is broadly in line. But it is not just about hp, the torque curve on the 4.0 was much stronger as well. When we compared the trace of the 4.0 RS to the std 3.8 RS, the 4.0 was a significant step up on both power and torque traces.

Pics to follow...
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997 GT3 RS 3.8 Grey/Red
996 GT3 Mk2 Clubsport Guards Red
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BMW E39 M5, BMW E46 M3
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Previous:
981 GT4 3.8 Clubsport
2x 997 GT3 RS 4.0 White and White
2x 997 GT3 RS 3.8 RHD and LHD
2x 996 GT3 RS Blue and Red
2x 996 GT3 Mk2 Clubsport and Comfort

Last edited by LaSource on Sun May 10, 2015 5:52 pm; edited 2 times in total
 
  
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Cunno
Indianapolis


Joined: 13 Dec 2008
Posts: 2359
Location: Nottinghamshire


PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2015 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

La Source

Who's owns the 997.1 RS with 500bhp? I'd like to have a chat with him as I'm thinking of doing some thing similar.

Jon
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Porsche is for driving not for washing.
Present Car: 2006 3.6 Porsche GT3 997(White)
Ex: 2006 3.4 Porsche Cayman S (Silver)
Ex: 2001 2.7 Porsche Boxster (Seal Grey)
 
  
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LaSource
Nürburgring


Joined: 08 Feb 2009
Posts: 472



PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2015 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cunno wrote:
La Source

Who's owns the 997.1 RS with 500bhp? I'd like to have a chat with him as I'm thinking of doing some thing similar.

Jon


Sorry, that was just a joke on the day. The 997.1 RS was standard spec.
_________________
997 GT3 RS 3.8 Grey/Red
996 GT3 Mk2 Clubsport Guards Red
KTM XBOW RR Superlight Spec
BMW E39 M5, BMW E46 M3
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Previous:
981 GT4 3.8 Clubsport
2x 997 GT3 RS 4.0 White and White
2x 997 GT3 RS 3.8 RHD and LHD
2x 996 GT3 RS Blue and Red
2x 996 GT3 Mk2 Clubsport and Comfort
 
  
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alexmac
Newbie


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 9



PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2015 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LaSource wrote:
Cunno wrote:
La Source

Who's owns the 997.1 RS with 500bhp? I'd like to have a chat with him as I'm thinking of doing some thing similar.

Jon


Sorry, that was just a joke on the day. The 997.1 RS was standard spec.
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Stuart
General
General


Joined: 16 Sep 2007
Posts: 5080
Location: Waterworld

2004 Porsche 996 GT3 Mk2

PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2015 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LaSource wrote:

Overall the results went to reconfirm that Porsche does not lie when it comes to engine power...and we know the 911 platform generally punches above its weight on circuits the world over.


Additionally, unless you're doing displacement changes Porsche got the engine and exhaust pretty damn right straight out the factory. You're chasing only marginal gains with ££££'s on the NA engine. Sometimes actually negative gains. I'm guilty of falling for this.
 
  
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Cunno
Indianapolis


Joined: 13 Dec 2008
Posts: 2359
Location: Nottinghamshire


PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2015 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stuart wrote:
LaSource wrote:

Overall the results went to reconfirm that Porsche does not lie when it comes to engine power...and we know the 911 platform generally punches above its weight on circuits the world over.


Additionally, unless you're doing displacement changes Porsche got the engine and exhaust pretty damn right straight out the factory. You're chasing only marginal gains with ££££'s on the NA engine. Sometimes actually negative gains. I'm guilty of falling for this.



Thanks Stu, the intension is more displacement, something similar to the Sharkwerks offering, but with European parts.

How did Nick Rs car run?

La Source
Shame I'd like to have seen that.
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Porsche is for driving not for washing.
Present Car: 2006 3.6 Porsche GT3 997(White)
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Ex: 2001 2.7 Porsche Boxster (Seal Grey)
 
  
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NLW73
Barcelona


Joined: 27 May 2014
Posts: 1483
Location: Yateley


PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2015 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

any K400 manthey cars running and achieving 400 or more?
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LaSource
Nürburgring


Joined: 08 Feb 2009
Posts: 472



PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2015 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here are a few pictures...






















_________________
997 GT3 RS 3.8 Grey/Red
996 GT3 Mk2 Clubsport Guards Red
KTM XBOW RR Superlight Spec
BMW E39 M5, BMW E46 M3
Land Rover Discovery 4 HSE

Previous:
981 GT4 3.8 Clubsport
2x 997 GT3 RS 4.0 White and White
2x 997 GT3 RS 3.8 RHD and LHD
2x 996 GT3 RS Blue and Red
2x 996 GT3 Mk2 Clubsport and Comfort
 
  
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996dom
Newbie


Joined: 24 Nov 2008
Posts: 44



PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2015 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Feel a bit cheated here, I got 357bhp in my bog standard 996.1 GT3 Very Happy

A great day, enjoyed chatting with like minded individuals and well done to Charlie for organising a great day.
 
  
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LaSource
Nürburgring


Joined: 08 Feb 2009
Posts: 472



PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2015 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NLW73 wrote:
any K400 manthey cars running and achieving 400 or more?


In the end we only had one Manthey car and that posted a fair bit less than expected and therefore suspect something else was causing that. Charlie felt the fuel mixture was not quite right.
_________________
997 GT3 RS 3.8 Grey/Red
996 GT3 Mk2 Clubsport Guards Red
KTM XBOW RR Superlight Spec
BMW E39 M5, BMW E46 M3
Land Rover Discovery 4 HSE

Previous:
981 GT4 3.8 Clubsport
2x 997 GT3 RS 4.0 White and White
2x 997 GT3 RS 3.8 RHD and LHD
2x 996 GT3 RS Blue and Red
2x 996 GT3 Mk2 Clubsport and Comfort
 
  
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Senoj
Zolder


Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 5184
Location: Sussex


PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2015 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Im still scratching my head over a 32bhp gain with an x pipe! Both cars on very similar mileages. I think just a slightly stronger engine and then free breathing right at the top end, maybe 10 to 15 out of the pipe? Having said that no manufacturer claims any gains at all for x pipes on 997's that i have seen so maybe you dropped a blue pill in the tank Very Happy

Mr La Source, my butt dyno gives a slighty exaggerated flat spot when the X pipe was on the car around the 7k mark, are you seeing that on the chart for the grey car?
 
  
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LaSource
Nürburgring


Joined: 08 Feb 2009
Posts: 472



PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2015 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Senoj wrote:
Im still scratching my head over a 32bhp gain with an x pipe! Both cars on very similar mileages. I think just a slightly stronger engine and then free breathing right at the top end, maybe 10 to 15 out of the pipe? Having said that no manufacturer claims any gains at all for x pipes on 997's that i have seen so maybe you dropped a blue pill in the tank Very Happy

Mr La Source, my butt dyno gives a slighty exaggerated flat spot when the X pipe was on the car around the 7k mark, are you seeing that on the chart for the grey car?


I agree, I find it implausible too...10-15 out of the pipe does sound more reasonable.

Here is the version that I have:
http://www.fvd.de/de/en/Porsche-0/944-141-34/-/-/item/item_details/VID_5446931-VCD_15715116-gid_30-sort_4-display_50-item_BES99704060S/Tuning_-_Exhaust_-_Mufflers_BES99704060S_Center_Muffler_Bypass_997_GT3_RS_`Brombacher_`_Stainless_Steel___without_Tips.html

...and you are correct, there is no claim for hp gain. May be I should have another look at the engine to see it has not been swapped out for a 4.0 lump Mr. Green

I do not notice a flat spot...but then I have not used this car in quite the same anger as others...I'll have a look at the trace at whether any flat spot has been previously been mapped out and hence giving a bigger number
_________________
997 GT3 RS 3.8 Grey/Red
996 GT3 Mk2 Clubsport Guards Red
KTM XBOW RR Superlight Spec
BMW E39 M5, BMW E46 M3
Land Rover Discovery 4 HSE

Previous:
981 GT4 3.8 Clubsport
2x 997 GT3 RS 4.0 White and White
2x 997 GT3 RS 3.8 RHD and LHD
2x 996 GT3 RS Blue and Red
2x 996 GT3 Mk2 Clubsport and Comfort
 
  
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kingston
Österreich


Joined: 09 Jun 2010
Posts: 998



PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2015 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dont forget someone lost hp with a bypass.

What was interesting to note, exc the 96 rs, that after mine, you was looking at £1k per hp, ie mine to stuarts was 6k, but mine ti a 997.1 was 20hp roughly and itd cost the equivalent. To swap into (unless 7.1s are cheaper/close to 96 prices)
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I really must learn to spell check and proof read my posts Smile
 
  
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LaSource
Nürburgring


Joined: 08 Feb 2009
Posts: 472



PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2015 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Senoj wrote:
Im still scratching my head over a 32bhp gain with an x pipe! Both cars on very similar mileages. I think just a slightly stronger engine and then free breathing right at the top end, maybe 10 to 15 out of the pipe? Having said that no manufacturer claims any gains at all for x pipes on 997's that i have seen so maybe you dropped a blue pill in the tank Very Happy

Mr La Source, my butt dyno gives a slighty exaggerated flat spot when the X pipe was on the car around the 7k mark, are you seeing that on the chart for the grey car?


There is a bit of a dip of the rate of increase around 7.5k of perhaps 10bhp (though power is still increasing)...plus the torque is tailing off, but does not look all that significant...I guess you have a sensitive but Smile


_________________
997 GT3 RS 3.8 Grey/Red
996 GT3 Mk2 Clubsport Guards Red
KTM XBOW RR Superlight Spec
BMW E39 M5, BMW E46 M3
Land Rover Discovery 4 HSE

Previous:
981 GT4 3.8 Clubsport
2x 997 GT3 RS 4.0 White and White
2x 997 GT3 RS 3.8 RHD and LHD
2x 996 GT3 RS Blue and Red
2x 996 GT3 Mk2 Clubsport and Comfort
 
  
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Cheburator
Trainee


Joined: 15 Aug 2014
Posts: 98



PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2015 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LaSource wrote:
NLW73 wrote:
any K400 manthey cars running and achieving 400 or more?


In the end we only had one Manthey car and that posted a fair bit less than expected and therefore suspect something else was causing that. Charlie felt the fuel mixture was not quite right.


That's the understatement of the century Very Happy I got 350bhp with AFR of 14.3:1 at 7800rpm. As a matter of fact the AFR refuses to go below 13.5 across the range, which while great for economy is an absolute killer for power. JZM will be getting the car this week as it is damn dangerous to drive so lean. The good news is that if it made that power while running so lean and pulling timing, it should make its monicker when she back to running properly with an AFR lower than 13:1.

Because of the shorter 4,5 and 6th you don't really feel the lack of power, but once on the dyno, it tells.
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Richyd
Watkins Glen


Joined: 04 Feb 2011
Posts: 2219
Location: Sunny Tunny Wells


PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2015 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 997.2 GT3 seems down on power - any idea what that was about?
_________________
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2018 Macan GTS

ex - 2018 991.2 GTS
ex - 2016 GT4
ex - 2015 Macan S
ex - 2009 997.2 GT3 CS
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ex - 1997 993 Carrera 4
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Senoj
Zolder


Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 5184
Location: Sussex


PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2015 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LaSource wrote:
Senoj wrote:
Im still scratching my head over a 32bhp gain with an x pipe! Both cars on very similar mileages. I think just a slightly stronger engine and then free breathing right at the top end, maybe 10 to 15 out of the pipe? Having said that no manufacturer claims any gains at all for x pipes on 997's that i have seen so maybe you dropped a blue pill in the tank Very Happy

Mr La Source, my butt dyno gives a slighty exaggerated flat spot when the X pipe was on the car around the 7k mark, are you seeing that on the chart for the grey car?


There is a bit of a dip of the rate of increase around 7.5k of perhaps 10bhp (though power is still increasing)...plus the torque is tailing off, but does not look all that significant...I guess you have a sensitive but Smile



Are you sure that car hasnt been mapped ? Very Happy the flat spot is sort of there but its not as pronounced as the std car.

 
  
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