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alex yates
Shanghai
Shanghai


Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 10654
Location: Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 12:18 pm    Post subject: ***Non-Turbo 996 owners - Please read - IMS DATA REQUIRED*** Reply with quote

I was reading some more IMS posts last night and it got me thinking -

Why don't we have current data that statistically displays FACT?

Lets start a fresh and forget all previous stories about the issue as all it seems to do is create myth and argument.

May I suggest we do some Data collection, which I will then put into a report that can be viewed on here by anybody wanting to know the truth. I can also keep it updated and add more data as and when required.

For data collection, I'm thinking something really simple like:

date inputted: 04/03/15
member: alex yates
model: 9961 C4
engine size: 3.4
purchase date: 03/03/14
date registered: 27/10/00
mileage (at purchase): 86100
mileage (now): 94553
bearing (orig./replacement): Original
failure data (if applicable):
comment:

Please only post data requested. Only post if you are the current owner of the car.

By doing this, it would not only prove/disprove everybody's beliefs (or go some way to help in that decision making process) but also give new buyers a better idea of what they potentially could be buying into.

And if statistically we prove it's not the horror story people make out, it can only add value to the 996 - thus inflate prices.

Who thinks this is a good idea?
If I start getting some positive comments as a goer, I'll make a start.

Lets put this baby to bed!


Anybody wanting to join in, either post their data in here (in a post below) or private message me if you prefer privacy.

No user names will be used in any reporting back I do





UPDATE: 12 Month Review below. I'll modify this whenever I have anything to report (as well as posting in this post to keep a chronological review process:http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?p=1074332#1074332).

alex yates wrote:
12 Month Review


Data collected so far for 92 cars (8th March 2016).

Here's a couple of bar charts showing which engines and models have sustained a failure:

Total number of failures - 6.52% (Not including the LN as an original failure)
of which 3.4 - 0% and 3.6 - 9.1%
of which all X51 & C4 - 0%, C2 - 9.1% and C4S - 11.1%





Last reported failure on a 996 was July 2014 (not including the LN failure).


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2000 Manual 996 C4 Arctic Silver Convertible



Last edited by alex yates on Tue Mar 08, 2016 11:29 am; edited 12 times in total
 
  
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911munKy
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 26 Nov 2014
Posts: 314



PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

good luck!

member: 911munky
model: 996.1 C2
engine size: 3.4
purchase date: 12/12/2014
age: First reg: 11/2000
mileage (at purchase): 80,300m (now 82,700m)
bearing (orig./replacement): Original (I think)
failure data (if applicable): N/A
comment: Fingers crossed!

Last edited by 911munKy on Wed Jun 28, 2017 11:58 am; edited 1 time in total
 
  
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Fox Terrier
Hockenheim


Joined: 27 Jan 2012
Posts: 684
Location: Bedfordshire


PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alex.... ALEX! You want facts? FACTS? Rumour and speculation are the currency of 911 ownership! The air-cooled bubble is in mortal danger!

Good luck and hats off to you! Thumb
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jonttt
Reims


Joined: 20 Aug 2012
Posts: 4071
Location: Liverpool


PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Floor

Ok I'll ask the first obvious question, how does the 7th owner of a 15 year old car know if its the original IMS bearing or not Dont know
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alex yates
Shanghai
Shanghai


Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 10654
Location: Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

easy - they post unknown in the bearing section.

But it's irrelevant really cos what we want to prove here is - If you buy a 996 now, what are the chances of the IMS bearing going pop.

If I collect data off 200 members and not one has had a failure in the last year, then it'll give us a more realistic % than 1% or 8% (that we currently quote).
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jonttt
Reims


Joined: 20 Aug 2012
Posts: 4071
Location: Liverpool


PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good luck Bandit
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chriscoates81
Österreich


Joined: 17 May 2013
Posts: 969



PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

member: chriscoates81
model: 996.1 C2
engine size: 3.4
purchase date: june 2010
age: First reg: 1999
mileage (at purchase): not sure
bearing (orig./replacement): Unknown
failure data (if applicable): N/A
comment: Sold after owning for 3 years and 30,000 miles and had no bearing failure in that time.
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DerbyJim
Montreal


Joined: 25 May 2014
Posts: 584
Location: Surrey


PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alex - good luck.... and I really do mean that.

However, if I've had a problem and I do a google search of IMS bearing and your thread comes up, the first thing I'm going to do is complain and log my details on the thread. You then have 90% failure rate.

Now I know we won't get that, however I hope you get my point. More people who have the problem will seek to reply to you.
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Robertb
Long Beach


Joined: 01 Sep 2003
Posts: 6001
Location: South Oxfordshire

2002 Porsche 996 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a friend who has a C4S, loves the car but is not a Porsche enthusiast per se. He has never been on a web forum, would have no idea what an IMS or bore score is. He just hops into his car, and drives it.

I envy him!
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Current: 2003 C4S Coupe, seal/black

Ex: '02 C4S Coupe, '96 993 Targa, '88 Carrera Sport Coupe
 
  
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churny
Nürburgring


Joined: 17 Nov 2010
Posts: 497
Location: Newcastle

2003 Porsche 911

PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

member: churny
model: 996 anniversary
engine size: 3.6
purchase date: feb 2011
age: First reg: 2003
mileage (at purchase): 67k
bearing (orig./replacement): replacement (only due to bore scoring rebuild)
failure data (if applicable): N/A
comment: Upgraded Hartech bearing now fitted
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Robertb
Long Beach


Joined: 01 Sep 2003
Posts: 6001
Location: South Oxfordshire

2002 Porsche 996 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, we are up to 30% failure rate already on bore scoring. Very Happy
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alex yates
Shanghai
Shanghai


Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 10654
Location: Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Robertb wrote:
Wow, we are up to 30% failure rate already on bore scoring. Very Happy


25% (you've not included my car) Grin

Let's see your figures!
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DerbyJim
Montreal


Joined: 25 May 2014
Posts: 584
Location: Surrey


PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sad

If we wanted to do this truly randomly, is there a way of contacting 100-200 car owners AT RANDOM via DVLA or something?

Not sure of costs etc but at least it would be random!
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porscheski
Nürburgring


Joined: 13 Dec 2013
Posts: 418
Location: Leicester


PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

why don't we start a debate over which is faster air or water cooled......
its a nice idea alex but its not possible to get usable data of any significance from it. There are thousands of porsche owners who don't know there is a forum and just drive their car. I would hazard a guess that any data collected from here would be skewed towards a higher failure rate as people join forums in order to glean information to help with an issue they have......
 
  
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alex yates
Shanghai
Shanghai


Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 10654
Location: Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

porscheski wrote:
why don't we start a debate over which is faster air or water cooled......
its a nice idea alex but its not possible to get usable data of any significance from it. There are thousands of porsche owners who don't know there is a forum and just drive their car. I would hazard a guess that any data collected from here would be skewed towards a higher failure rate as people join forums in order to glean information to help with an issue they have......


Lets just see shall we. As yet, we're on a 100% success rate Grin

....and I know it's only a sample size of 4, but I've yet not witnessed a failure on here since I joined last March Dont know
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medicus
Albert Park


Joined: 21 Oct 2014
Posts: 1518



PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

but this wont produce "facts" as you keep going on about Alex, all it will produce is data from those who could be bothered to input them.
and if you get only people who have had dramas, your facts will be no more that speculation and rumour, as they are now.
facts will never be known, because not everybody with every 996 will be reporting, so again its just speculation and to obtain facts then every fact has to be entered.
if 20 people reply all who have had faults, then you are going to get a 100% fail rate, that is not a fact, its nonsensical.

good idea, but massively flawed.
 
  
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coomo
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 24 Oct 2013
Posts: 361
Location: Essexboy at home.


PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Er I dont know how to get the list??
Anyway 2003 3.6 tippy ,mileage at purchase feb last year 96,000
Mileage today, 107k, original ims.
 
  
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alex yates
Shanghai
Shanghai


Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 10654
Location: Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anybody who had any pride in their 996 would enter their data and the higher the sample size - the more reliable the data would be.

It's up to you guys how flawed you want it to be.


Here's me trying to promote the model and enhance resale value, talk about negativity.


Thanks Coomo
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Last edited by alex yates on Wed Mar 04, 2015 7:17 pm; edited 1 time in total
 
  
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DerbyJim
Montreal


Joined: 25 May 2014
Posts: 584
Location: Surrey


PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alex, seriously mate, I was honestly trying to be supportive but getting MORE flawed data becomes just that... More flawed data.

You need to get a random sample to ensure that you have a representative spread of the issue / non-issue.

If you can get that, it'd be a gold mine and fair play to you for doing so. I'd love to see it and honestly believe it's a smaller issue than people make out, as a percentage anyhow, not to the people who are affected.

Happy to support the investigation but let's re-think how you get the randomness factor right.

Jim
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jonttt
Reims


Joined: 20 Aug 2012
Posts: 4071
Location: Liverpool


PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought porsche had done this in disclosure during the usa legal case. If anything they would have down played the stats disclosed not played them up. I can't see how you are ever going to get better than that in terms of reliable stats Cop
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