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medicus
Albert Park


Joined: 21 Oct 2014
Posts: 1518



PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jonttt wrote:
I thought porsche had done this in disclosure during the usa legal case. If anything they would have down played the stats disclosed not played them up. I can't see how you are ever going to get better than that in terms of reliable stats Cop


I agree with that. Thumb
 
  
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alex yates
Shanghai
Shanghai


Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 11186
Location: 4,000 holes in Blackburn, Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jonttt wrote:
I thought porsche had done this in disclosure during the usa legal case. If anything they would have down played the stats disclosed not played them up. I can't see how you are ever going to get better than that in terms of reliable stats Cop


Maybe all the bad ones have failed. Maybe one will never fail again,Dont know
all I'm trying to understand is - what's the situation with IMS bearing failures in today's climate cos I've never seen one yet! But I know it's reputation has crippled the model.

If every member who owned a 996 responded to this post with data on their car it would represent what was happening. There must be at least 200 members with NA 996s.
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2000 Manual 996 C4 Arctic Silver Convertible

 
  
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medicus
Albert Park


Joined: 21 Oct 2014
Posts: 1518



PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

alex yates wrote:
jonttt wrote:
I thought porsche had done this in disclosure during the usa legal case. If anything they would have down played the stats disclosed not played them up. I can't see how you are ever going to get better than that in terms of reliable stats Cop


Maybe all the bad ones have failed. Maybe one will never fail again,Dont know
all I'm trying to understand is - what's the situation with IMS bearing failures in today's climate cos I've never seen one yet! But I know it's reputation has crippled the model.

If every member who owned a 996 responded to this post with data on their car it would represent what was happening. There must be at least 200 members with NA 996s.


I agree Alex, and im not dissing your reasoning or enthusiasm,
all I was saying is you said the word FACTS
while it would never be a fact, it would just be data biased on those who submitted them.
 
  
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alex yates
Shanghai
Shanghai


Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 11186
Location: 4,000 holes in Blackburn, Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

medicus wrote:
alex yates wrote:
jonttt wrote:
I thought porsche had done this in disclosure during the usa legal case. If anything they would have down played the stats disclosed not played them up. I can't see how you are ever going to get better than that in terms of reliable stats Cop


Maybe all the bad ones have failed. Maybe one will never fail again,Dont know
all I'm trying to understand is - what's the situation with IMS bearing failures in today's climate cos I've never seen one yet! But I know it's reputation has crippled the model.

If every member who owned a 996 responded to this post with data on their car it would represent what was happening. There must be at least 200 members with NA 996s.


I agree Alex, and im not dissing your reasoning or enthusiasm,
all I was saying is you said the word FACTS
while it would never be a fact, it would just be data biased on those who submitted them.


David, please can I have your data on your car. The more we join together in this, the better understanding potential new buyers and forum members who read this will have. My car hasn't gone pop and as far as I'm aware neither has yours. Lets shut the non believers up and prove what a fantastic relieble car they can be thumbsup
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medicus
Albert Park


Joined: 21 Oct 2014
Posts: 1518



PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

date inputted: 04/03/15
member: medicus
model: 996-2 Targa
engine size: 3.6
purchase date: 017/03/13
date registered: 02/09/04
mileage (at purchase): 77000
mileage (now): 81000
bearing (orig./replacement): Original (as far as I know)
failure data (if applicable):
comment: I was told it had been done, however I have no paperwork or proof of this, so im thinking it hasn't.

no dramas Alex, thank you.
 
  
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str12
Silverstone


Joined: 04 Apr 2012
Posts: 126



PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 6:56 pm    Post subject: Flawed... Reply with quote

How do you account for the previous 996 NA owners that were members but IMS went pop and have since left the forum due to the experience? They won't be included in the sample. People on this forum may not represent a true sample population of 996 NA owners so any results have a bias.

While your motivation is good The logic is fundamentally flawed therefore the results are meaningless.

I would reference the outcome from the class action in the USA.
 
  
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alex yates
Shanghai
Shanghai


Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 11186
Location: 4,000 holes in Blackburn, Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 7:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Flawed... Reply with quote

str12 wrote:
How do you account for the previous 996 NA owners that were members but IMS went pop and have since left the forum due to the experience? They won't be included in the sample. People on this forum may not represent a true sample population of 996 NA owners so any results have a bias.

While your motivation is good The logic is fundamentally flawed therefore the results are meaningless.

I would reference the outcome from the class action in the USA.


Your missing the point totally. The original post stated - current times, not what's happened in the past. If you ask me all the failures have failed and the ones left probably won't do. All this exercise is for is to see if the issue is anything like it used to be and to give people an understanding of current climate.
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alex yates
Shanghai
Shanghai


Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 11186
Location: 4,000 holes in Blackburn, Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

medicus wrote:
date inputted: 04/03/15
member: medicus
model: 996-2 Targa
engine size: 3.6
purchase date: 017/03/13
date registered: 02/09/04
mileage (at purchase): 77000
mileage (now): 81000
bearing (orig./replacement): Original (as far as I know)
failure data (if applicable):
comment: I was told it had been done, however I have no paperwork or proof of this, so im thinking it hasn't.

no dramas Alex, thank you.


Thanks David Thumb
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moorhouse
Nürburgring


Joined: 15 Apr 2013
Posts: 428
Location: Northumberland


PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alex

I'll simply answer your original request as any comment I would make would be seriously statistically flawed by the fact I know absolutely nowt about statistics!

As requested:
date inputted: 04/03/15
member: moorhouse
model: 996 40th Anniversary (effectively C2 with X51 engine wise)
engine size: 3.6
purchase date: 07/02/13
date registered: 15/01/04
mileage (at purchase): 42,000
mileage (now): 49,800
bearing (orig./replacement): Original (assumed, see below)
failure data (if applicable): N/A
comment: have full service history (OPC first 8 yrs & then Hartech last two) with no mention of replacement so assume original.

Hope this helps - Cheers........
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alex yates
Shanghai
Shanghai


Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 11186
Location: 4,000 holes in Blackburn, Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thumb Cheers.
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jonttt
Reims


Joined: 20 Aug 2012
Posts: 4214
Location: Liverpool


PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

alex yates wrote:
jonttt wrote:
I thought porsche had done this in disclosure during the usa legal case. If anything they would have down played the stats disclosed not played them up. I can't see how you are ever going to get better than that in terms of reliable stats Cop


Maybe all the bad ones have failed. Maybe one will never fail again,Dont know
all I'm trying to understand is - what's the situation with IMS bearing failures in today's climate cos I've never seen one yet! But I know it's reputation has crippled the model.

If every member who owned a 996 responded to this post with data on their car it would represent what was happening. There must be at lLeast 200 members with NA 996s.


OK, so you want to see what percentage of regular forum users have had IMS bearing failures, fine just not sure what that will prove Dont know

You are trying to prove the actual current incidence based on that small sample will show the actual failure rate is less than the that quoted in the USA class action. I'm sure it will. I am also sure that will not affect the supressed value of these cars based on the problem.

Are you also going to include bore scoring which is (probably) more common and based on the recent comments made by Hartech on here (the accepted experts in the UK) likely to happen to all 996's at some point Dont know

Ie how can you expect just looking at one of the major issues to affect values Dont know

No doubting your motives but short of the DVLA forcing current owners to respond to a questionnaire about all known issues it will never be achievable.

To me a combination of the USA class action stats as a baseline AND the likely reasons for the IMS failure as discussed on the recent (great IMHO) IMS failure thread would be more meaningful information ie a combination of an assumed baseline and likely variance to this over time given the likely root cause (combination of manufacturing tolerance and bearing seal failure, both affecting cars at different mileage ranges )
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scottuk
Hockenheim


Joined: 06 Sep 2012
Posts: 739
Location: Broughty Ferry

2003 Porsche 996 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here goes from memory:

date inputted: 04/03/15
member: scottuk
model: 996 Carrera 4S
engine size: 3.6
purchase date: 2012
date registered: 2003
mileage (at purchase): 56000
mileage (now): 60000
bearing (orig./replacement): assumed original as nothing to say otherwise in my service file.
comment: I'm not superstitious, but I do have my fingers crossed
Confused
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alex yates
Shanghai
Shanghai


Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 11186
Location: 4,000 holes in Blackburn, Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thumb Thanks.
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screwy
Newbie


Joined: 15 Jan 2014
Posts: 33
Location: SW Herts


PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alex,

Of course it's not statistically accurate, but still an interesting survey. Well done.

date inputted: 04/03/15
member: screwy
model: 996.2 C4S Tip
engine size: 3.6
purchase date: 01/02/14
date registered: 26/11/02
mileage (at purchase): 93000
mileage (now): 98000
bearing (orig./replacement): Replacement (LN)
failure data (if applicable): N/A
comment: I had the bearing replaced when I bought the car as a preventative maintenance thing. (The original turned out to be fine BTW). If I had my time over I wouldn't bother. Like you Alex, I think most if not all IMS failures have already happened.

Peter Morgan did an great article in March's GT Porsche mag, trying to bring the whole M96/M97 engine issue debate up to date. He references the experiences of multiple dealers that he has regular contact with. It's a good read. IMS failure does not feature as a major issue.
 
  
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ARob22
Newbie


Joined: 27 Dec 2011
Posts: 33
Location: Leeds

2004 Porsche 996 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As requested:
date inputted: 04/03/15
member: ARob22
model: 996 40th Anniversary
engine size: 3.6
purchase date: 13/12/14
date registered: 06/01/04
mileage (at purchase): 58,990
mileage (now): 59,500
bearing (orig./replacement): Original (assumed, see below)
failure data (if applicable): N/A
comment: have 90% of service history (OPC first 7 years & Indie(s) there after) with no mention of replacement so assume original.
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alex yates
Shanghai
Shanghai


Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 11186
Location: 4,000 holes in Blackburn, Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks thumbsup

More data required members!
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Bam
Trainee


Joined: 15 Jun 2014
Posts: 67



PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here goes from memory:

date inputted: 04/03/15
member: Bam
model: 996 Carrera 2
engine size: 3.6
purchase date: June 2014
date registered: 2003
mileage (at purchase): 115,000
mileage (now): 120,000
bearing (orig./replacement): original , full dealer and indy service history no bills for ims
comment: today the car is at zentrum having the rms done, he said he would ring if it needed the ims , no phone call just a text to say car is ready .
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gilessav
Monza


Joined: 04 Jan 2013
Posts: 189
Location: Oxford UK


PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

date inputted: 04/03/2015
member: gilessav
model: C4S Tip
engine size: 3.6
purchased: Feb 22nd 2014
registered: April 2004
mileage at purchase: 66500
mileage now: 71900
bearing: original
Comment: left IMS alone with RMS change on Indi recommendation.



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declandio
Montreal


Joined: 01 Nov 2014
Posts: 583
Location: Hampton, London


PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good effort Alex- thanks Smile

Here goes from memory:

date inputted: 04/03/15
member: declandio
model: 996 Carrera Garden Variety Tiptronic
engine size: 3.4
purchase date: Oct 2014
date registered: 1999
mileage (at purchase): 112,000
mileage (now): 116,000
bearing (orig./replacement): assumed original
comment: I find that I never use the stereo and always have a window cracked open slightly, to help me listen out for impending implosion! I blame the Internet for this paranoia.
 
  
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Storm996
Nürburgring


Joined: 03 Jul 2013
Posts: 476



PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 11:11 pm    Post subject: ims Reply with quote

For those on here who want to read further something similar that has been done to death quite a few times on Pistonheads




further reading

Has your 996 or 997 engine had a major rebuild? started 2011
http://www.pistonheads.com/Gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=48&t=1052310&mid=403971&i=0&nmt=Has+your+996+or+997+engine+had+a+major+rebuild%3F&mid=403971

There is also a 15 page one titled 996-997 wet-sump engine reliability: enter your stats here! started in 2007
 
  
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